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sub_ubi ,

Illiterate by far. No more reading your posts

10_0 ,

💥💥💥💫

room_raccoon , (edited )

At first I thought this question was a no-brainer, that I'd rather have legs. But after thinking about it a little, the question becomes much more interesting to me.

If the case is that you can still learn to be literate, the obvious choice is to have legs. But if it means you have no possibility to ever read or write, I'm now thinking I'd rather have no legs.

I learn best from reading and writing things down, and I think I communicate better in text, too. I love learning new skills and that would be hard for me without using text. It's very sexy to have legs and I'd miss mine a lot, but I chose to be literate... I think.

Edit: I hope this is okay to do, but I made a magazine on kbin for these kinds of questions. I think would you rather questions are so fascinating and fun to discuss. Maybe someone would like to come post one or discuss? https://kbin.social/m/would_you_rather

rikudou ,

!would_you_rather - like that the link works for Lemmy users.

room_raccoon ,

Thank you!

neptune ,

Podcasts to the rescue. I always knew they were good for something (the illiterate)

EddoWagt ,

It’s very sexy to have legs

I mean… yes? Didn’t expect to ever read that sentence

AlternateRoute ,

Assuming you were completely illiterate it would VASTLY limit your interaction with the current world and ability to work than having no legs.

I am not even sure it is a contest here. Having no legs would absolutely limit my physical mobility but there are accommodations and workarounds for that. I can 100% do my current desk job with no legs, play online games etc.

Being completely illiterate would heavily isolate you and your ability to grow and learn. You would have to be verbally / visually be taught everything yet somehow not ever learn how to read or write?

CmdrShepard ,

I think the impact would be lessened with things like Alexa and Siri capable of translating speech to text.

AlternateRoute ,

You clearly haven’t tried to use them for any significant task, the error rate gets bad. Hell I just use Siri for my shopping list and have to figure out some of the random garbage it inserts.

At the very least READING works well but speech to text is very hit and miss. You also can’t use it everywhere.

As far as communication goes it would be similar to being blind but not knowing braille or Tactile signing and being 100% dependant on technical aids.

CmdrShepard ,

You’re correct I don’t use them but I do know several people who might be straddling the illiteracy line and use them almost exclusively. It does result in errors but it also opens many doors that wouldn’t be available without it. The reverse is also beneficial as it allows these people to have text read aloud to them.

Paol ,
@Paol@lemmy.ml avatar

The ChatGPT app uses the speech-to-text model Whisper, and it’s always spot on in English. Whisper is open source. I don’t understand why it’s not widespread, but hopefully it will be or similarly capable software will be soon.

DharmaCurious ,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

Okay, here’s my fucking soap box. Didn’t mean to write all of this, but here it is.

Some of y’all have no idea what it’s like to go through life in a wheelchair… Or to deal with the American medical system as someone with disabilities. You’re disabled, so you can’t work. Now you have to spend years proving you can’t work, while not working, and not getting disability. So, y’know, enjoy living in your car without a wheelchair, because you can’t afford one… If you’re lucky enough to have a car.

My mom has been disabled since birth. She’s 62 now. She got her first power chair 7 years ago.

I’m not saying being illiterate would be any better, that would also be a disability in our society (because disability is, despite what many people think, as much a social construct as an actual reality, and illiteracy shows this better than a lot of things). But this kind of question is, frankly, pretty offensive to any one who’s had to go through a world that is built in a way that is hostile to their body. Being wheelchair bound means less options for apartments (because, for the majority of disabled people, you’re a renter, you can’t afford to own a home). You’re stuck with the choice of not being able to rent an apartment because there’s no elevator (even a lot of ground floors have too many steps for a ramp), or renting a second story or above apartment with an elevator, and just accepting that you will likely die in a fire with no way to escape.

There’s so much to this y’all aren’t considering. Needing another human when you need to transfer to a shower, or the toilet. Having to call and ask employees at stores to come outside to you instead of going in if you’re unable to transfer to a chair yourself, or get to your wheelchair. Being unable to drive because you can’t afford the conversion kit. Being unable to leave your home without help.

This world is designed for one particular body type. You can’t just slot into it with a different type and go along like you would have before. You should be able to, but you can’t.

Which is all say, just, consider what it’s like for people with disabilities, and do what you can to make it better. Agitate, vote, shame and name, and if you’re ever in a position to change things, do it. There are so many small changes we could make that would make the world better for those with disabilities. Accessible places are usable by everyone, “normal” places are only useable by one body type. There is no reason for it to be this way. Ramps, roll in showers, heightened toilets, grab bars, hand rails at three different heights, elevators with emergency generators and fire walls on exterior walls with a fire exit on the back. These are things that could be standard and would make the world accessible to all.

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I know you called it a soap box, but I appreciate the perspective. Someone else in this thread suggested the question was offensive, but when I asked why in earnest, they just blew up with accusation after accusation. Your explanation gets the point across pretty well.

I do believe that OP’s question was asked in a context that wasn’t intended to be offensive, but instead asking the audience what challenge they feel they’d be better equipped to face. But I do get (and agree with) what you’re saying, that a larger discussion about the implications of these topics deserves to be had.

DharmaCurious ,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

I don’t think any offense or malice was intended with the question, it’s honestly more the people saying how much easier it would be to do one or the other, or how their life wouldn’t change because they have a desk job… That’s a matter of people needing education on a topic, y’know?

neamhsplach OP ,

Thanks for your detailed answer, I really liked it. Apologies if this question was offensive to you, I had this discussion recently and it made me think a lot about how much time I spend using my literacy skills vs getting around. Then it got me thinking about how accessible lots of buildings where I live are. A friend of mine had a family member come to visit in a wheelchair recently and pointed out that lots of places that tourists usually visit are exempt from accessibility requirements because they’re situated in older buildings. One of my biggest shames in one of my previous jobs was being told I had to turn down a group of students coming to take a course in the school I was working in because we couldn’t accommodate one of their classmates in a wheelchair. Like, my gut tells me that’s straight up illegal 🫤 but maybe where I live it’s not. I left that job not long after so I don’t know if there were any repercussions.

There’s a big push to revitalise the city I live in at the moment regarding opening up public spaces and making them more attractive to citizens and this is something that I haven’t seen discussed openly in relation to that yet so I will keep an eye out for it!

platysalty ,

Illiterate. I can learn to read again.

trimmerfrost ,

Unless you are old

Catsrules ,

Probably don’t have good eye sight so can’t read anyways. That is what audio books are for.

RickyRigatoni ,
@RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml avatar

And legs can grow back, so both options are fine.

EddoWagt ,

Uhh we’re all humans here, right?

JoBo ,

Would you rather post a ridiculously offensive question or just keep your thoughts to yourself?

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

What’s offensive about the question? Legitimately asking, in case I’m just ignorant at the moment.

JoBo ,

The hell do you think you’re going to learn by asking other ignorant people?

If you want to understand what it is like to have a given disability, search out materials written by and for people who have experienced those disabilities. If you get a chance to ask a disabled person about how that disability affects them, without being a boring, insensitive, dehumanising dickhead, do so.

Don’t ask a bunch of people without those disabilities to debate which would be most awful. And do not pretend it’s about educating yourself when you’re addressing your question to people who are mostly as clueless as you are. You’re not going to learn anything useful at all and you can’t possibly have imagined you would. You’re just adding to the mountains of awful dehumanising bullshit that is already out there.

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I feel like you’ve just projected a lot of your own context onto OP’s question. I think I understand what you’re getting at, but there’s a of anger in there that feels misplaced.

JoBo ,

You understand what I’m getting at but you don’t think it’s worth getting angry about?

Yeah, sure.

iamanurd ,

You sound fun

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Let me rephrase:

When I try to read between the lines of your unnecessarily aggressive rant, I believe what you’re getting at is that the question could be perceived as being insensitive to those that cannot read or are missing limbs.

I however think that you’re communicating in a manner that displays very little control over your emotions, and a penchant for theatrics, and you are loading a lot of your own context onto a question that lacks it.

JoBo ,

Can you hear yourself?

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yes, that’s one of likely many differences between us.

eezeebee ,
@eezeebee@lemmy.ca avatar

You may be illiterate, or have no legs, or neither, and be offended by the question. You feel your feelings and nobody can tell you they are valid or not, regardless on their opinions of those feelings.

It’s not fair for you to decide for everyone that this is objectively offensive. It’s patronizing. People who are illiterate or have no legs have their own thoughts and feelings that are just as valid as yours, and you don’t get to speak for them or anyone except yourself. They may or may not be offended, and that is not a choice you get to make for them.

It’s great that you are concerned for those people and have empathy - I believe, or at least hope that we all do - but nobody can speak for them but themselves. I think that is part of the reason for the pushback you have received in this thread.

JoBo ,

OP is not asking people who are affected by these disabilities to talk about their experiences. He is asking randoms to discuss which is worse, from a position of near total ignorance, for entertainment.

eezeebee ,
@eezeebee@lemmy.ca avatar

I understand that.

Would you agree that the question isn’t making light of either, though? It’s not making fun of people in either situation.

I would argue that the question makes us pause and consider what difficulties people who are in either category must experience on a daily basis. How often does the average person with legs consider accessibility challenges? How difficult would it be to be illiterate in today’s world? OP’s got us empathizing here and having a healthy discussion. At least that’s how I see it.

JoBo ,

For some reason I cannot see your post in context or see it on the thread. So I don’t know exactly what you’re responding to.

But the question absolutely is making light of it. It doesn’t have to make fun of people to be making their lives harder.

How does having people imagine what it’s like do anything other than reinforce stereotypes? On a very quick skim I can see people saying illiteracy would be fine because it’s so easy to learn to read. And others saying they’ve had to spend time in a wheelchair so they reckon they’d be fine without legs. Shut the fuck up, all of you. Jebus.

There’s been quite a lot of output from disabled people speaking out against this kind of context-free ‘empathising’. Most recently due to some exhibit that has people walk around in the dark so they can ‘experience’ blindness. They can’t. They never will.

Disabled people don’t need a bunch of randoms cod-empathising in the middle of a bunch of other randoms speking their branes. They can speak for themselves. And they do. If only the rest of us thought they were actual human beings worth listening to, and could shut the fuck up for long enough to hear them.

eezeebee ,
@eezeebee@lemmy.ca avatar

My reply was on your comment here (don’t know if linking will work or not) feddit.uk/comment/1959414

I think I get your point. Nobody who hasn’t experienced these things will ever understand what it’s like. And no amount of imagining what it’s like will ever come close to living it.

Speaking for myself here, I think at least trying to fathom the challenges is better than never even thinking about it. Awareness is better than ignorance. I agree with you that it would be better to hear about the real experiences of people who actually live with these challenges than randoms taking guesses. I don’t think it’s all bad though, and it’s ok if we disagree about that.

JoBo ,

Of course its better to think about it. And you don’t have to think very hard to realise that pulling the answers straight out of your own brain is not going to give you anything useful to think about.

I’ve had people chastising me in this thread for discouraging the OP from educating himself, and others chastising me because he clearly wasn’t trying to educate himself.

I do not know why this point is so fucking difficult to grasp or why you’re all scrabbling so hard to excuse it. The slogan is “nothing about us without us” FFS.

quinnly ,

I can’t hear anything over your ranting

Chozo ,

That's a ridiculously offensive question. What if Wesker is hearing-impaired?

room_raccoon ,

I don't know who the hell you are, but I think you're great.

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

I think you’re maybe reading too much into it… pretty sure it was just intended to be a hypothetical for discussion, not an attempt to learn about disabilities. It’s like, “Would you rather have unlimited money but be perpetually depressed, or always be happy but be perpetually broke?”

If someone who actually has no legs came in and offered their opinion, that’d be a bonus, but it doesn’t strike me as the intended purpose of the post.

If there’s anyone here who actually has no legs who is offended by this, I’d be interested to hear from them, but… if you have legs (because you’re clearly literate), are you sure you’re not just taking offense by proxy where none should exist or was intended?

JoBo ,

pretty sure it was just intended to be a hypothetical for discussion

Exactly. How the hell you constructed the rest of your thoughts around that basic fact is beyond me.

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

I mean, you seem to have constructed your objection around a completely different premise, so… if this is a basic fact, than what is your objection, really?

JoBo ,

I don’t know what the fuck is going on in your head but my objection is to dehumanising discussions of disabled people. How is that so very hard to understand?

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’d rather have no legs.

Yes, I could learn how to read/write. But so many of my passions require high aptitude in those regards, so it’d take way too long to get up to speed. I’d also not be able to perform my job.

On the other hand, prosthetics and bionics are taking leaps and bounds. There likely would be little I’d have to give up physically, if I had access to that tech.

Doug ,

prosthetics and bionics are taking leaps and bounds

Heh

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I’ll take no legs. I already don’t use them anyway, but I read all day long.

trimmerfrost ,

You have a personal caretaker who takes you everywhere on a wheelchair?

mister_monster ,

Illiterate because I can learn how to read. Can’t learn how to regrow legs.

neamhsplach OP ,

Would you, in your situation currently, survive financially if you woke up tomorrow without the ability to read or write?

quinnly ,

Probably not but at least I could get out of bed and walk down the stairs

neamhsplach OP ,

Fair

mister_monster ,

Survive? I don’t know. I definitely wouldn’t be doing well. I’m sure I could figure it out though.

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Illiterate. I could always get the audio book.

alekks09 ,

No legs. I would dedicate my life to develop cool prosthesis

Mothra ,
@Mothra@mander.xyz avatar

Depends, how much money do I have and where do I live?

chimeras ,
@chimeras@kbin.social avatar

I'd rather have no legs. I could manage to live with a physical disability without too much shame or hassle, but I couldn't cope with not being to read and write (and learn, and communicate properly.) You know what they say: knowledge is power. A person without legs can get an education and do something with their life, but someone who is illiterate is doomed to work menial jobs (or resort to crime or prostituion, idk.) I think it would be akin to a mental disability, not only it would make life harder on a practical level, but it would also make you the target of hate and manipulation from others. I'm aware that physically disabled people endure hate, too, but not as much.

Bizarroland ,
@Bizarroland@kbin.social avatar

The real mind blower in this situation is that once you are literate you can't turn it off.

You have no way to stop reading this while looking at the words.

Your brain is permanently wired to automatically translate this into language that you understand for the rest of your life whereas if you want to have no legs you can just cut your fucking legs off.

Even if you were to lobotomize yourself, that is no guarantee that you would lose the ability to read.

The only way that you can guarantee that you would lose your ability to read words is to kill yourself. And you shouldn't kill yourself because you won't survive that.

You will die if you kill yourself, and that is bad.

I said all of that to say think it would be super fun to learn how to read all over again.

PlexSheep ,
@PlexSheep@feddit.de avatar

Learning to read would be easier than getting new legs, so I guess that be the better choice

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