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[YT] Less Than Half of Android Users Have Upgraded to Android 13 or 14! 🤯

Funny, the comment types here are the same as on Youtube:

  1. “I still run Android and it is totally fine, will never switch Android just got worse!”
  2. “Well, money”
  3. “Companies need to support phones longer”
  4. "I just use LineageOS on that device"
  5. Misinformation
echo ,

It’s not like the end users typically get any choice… either the service provider makes an update available or they don’t.

limerod ,

Your choice is making sure to buy a well supported, timely updated device. If you can’t is a different issue. But, if you don’t is on you. Vote with your wallet.

n2burns ,

Your choice is making sure to buy a well supported, timely updated device.

Sure, that choice is currently available, but it wasn’t when many of those devices were purchased. For example, I’m currently using a Galaxy S10e which had just about the best support of any Android phone. Now I’m stuck on Android 12. I actually planned on using it with Lineage, but somewhere between my S7 and the S10e, Samsung stopped using Exynos in their Canadian phones, and I didn’t realize it. The hardware is still more than good, and as others have pointed out, with Play Service updates, the software isn’t really obsolete either, it’s just a concern I’m not getting security updates.

limerod ,

S10e. I was talking more about current devices. The next device you upgrade too should be better. Be it samsung, pixel, fairohone, oneplus, etc.

downpunxx ,

same with my S10, at some point though app vendors will stop allowing their apps to run on our o/s and security versions, i think we still have a couple years before that happens, but eventually it's going to happen, and on that day i will curse the gods

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Samsung is especially bad as they lock out security features for custom Android versions. (It is not a ROM, it is an OS).

GrapheneOS would support Samsung, maybe. But they allow many critical security features like measured boot (I think) only for their own OS.

echo ,

As long as my provider is selling me service for the device then they have a responsibility to support it and provide upgrades. I do vote with my wallet by not being on the upgrade treadmill.

j4yt33 ,

Vote with your wallet

Buy new device if old one isn’t supported anymore

Hmm

limerod ,

Newer smartphones are supported anywhere from 6-7. Fairphone being supported even higher. Unless, you are saying that’s not enough in that case custom roms are your 2nd option after official support.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Google really needs to decouple the hardware from the OS. There’s no good reason newer Android couldn’t be installed on older phones.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Google doesnt do anything here. The OEMs need to port the Android kernel to older hardware.

They often just support one LTS kernel.

But Android even supports the LTS kernel for 6 years now.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Google develops Android and thus is responsible for it’s update scheme. They already changed it quite a bit in the last years with GSIs and Project Treble but there’s still no real seperation that would allow the same drivers and hardware blobs to be used independent of the Android Version or updating the Android version without these needing to be included every time.

That’s what needs to change.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Their own phones have support for the mainline kernel. It is the vendors that dont want to upstream their drivers and produce half-proprietary garbage they dont publish, so nobody can update these devices.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

But Googles decides, that that is possible. I fthey changed the structure to enforce a seperation there’s nothing that would keep Android updates from those devices. Put all hardware and device specific stuf in a seperate layer and have it accessible to the updatable system. And it’s not like these vendors have an alternative to go to

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Put all hardware and device specific stuf in a seperate layer

Could you elaborate?

Android uses Linux, a monolithic kernel. You cant just separate drivers.

I also heard that OEMs write horrible drivers, which wouldnt work on a microkernel without maaajor porting issues.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

And there are Linux distros with rolling releases, where the drivers stay where they are and the OS around them gets updated without issue. I’m sure the smart people at the Android team could do something similar

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

The drivers are in the kernel, kept updated with every release. As I said, pixels at least boot with mainline kernel support, but the Android kernel is modded.

And then manifacturer use out of tree drivers as core part of their kernel.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Yes I know the manufacturers do, but there’s no reason for the drivers to be replaced when the kernel is updated, you could hold them separately or reapply them after an update

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

This doesnt always work as nonstable kernels (or even porting to a newer kernel) changes in their interface.

Like, backportig patches to a 6 year or more old kernel is crazy! My 6a runs on 5.14 and that is a currently supported phone.

MonkderDritte , (edited )

Google doesnt do anything here. The OEMs need to port the Android kernel to older hardware.

Wrong. Google had multiple projects like Treble to decouple the software from the hardware. What happened with it?

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

You can run new android on an old kernel, see lineageos

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Yes and this is not secure. The kernel runs as root.

possiblylinux127 ,

The kernel is the problem

nossaquesapao ,

I don’t blame the users. There’s usually no way to upgrade android versions, so we get stuck unless we replace the phone, and most people can’t afford to replace their phones so often. I’d go further and say that people shouldn’t be supposed to replace their phones because of a new software version. The android’s distribution model is flawed, we should be able to upgrade our phones the same way we upgrade linux distros. If it was possible, then I would blame users for running unmaintained software.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Keep in mind that many Linux users have Laptops with no firmware updates anymore.

But I agree of course, we need laws for that

Diabolo96 ,

My 4GB phone was perfectly usable on Android 11. It upgrade itself to android 12 and it’s basically can’t keep a second app in background anymore.

limerod ,

Borked update by manufacturer. What device if I may ask?

Diabolo96 ,

Xiaomi Redmi note 10.

limerod ,

Ah, xiaomi. I don’t know if it’s the same with Mi branded smartphones. But, that was my experience with Redmi smartphones.

Ilandar ,

Try a lighter custom ROM if you can. LineageOS’s implementation of Android 14 is still usable with a 4 GB device.

Diabolo96 ,

Changing ROMs is a huge pain. Not only it can brick the phone, full backups were basically made impossible long ago. It’s best to do it as soon as you purchase the phone and that’s what I am gonna do.

Ilandar ,

Nah, it’s pretty easy. I’ve done it many times myself. You have to be pretty unlucky or stupid to brick a phone.

Diabolo96 ,

did it many times too and never bricked a phone. The fact that there’s a chance that it can brick a phone is the problem. Were I live, even the cheapest phones cost a month worth of salary, so if you brick s phone, you’re basically without a phone for months as you slowly gather the funds to buy a new one.

possiblylinux127 ,

It is normally soft bricked. You just need to wipe it and start over

Diabolo96 ,

To flash a custom rom you usually use a custom Bootloader like TWRP, and if the bootloader is fucked, the phone is pretty much dead.

possiblylinux127 ,

It isn’t needed with Lineage OS as it has its own recovery tools

possiblylinux127 ,

Agreed. Now if only I could find a good device. I am very picky with hardware. I want a Motorola phone with a headphone jack and Lineage OS that works in the US.

I will note that you need to do a complete wipe when changing Roms. It breaks random things in the OS

Diabolo96 ,

High-tier Xiaomi phones usually have headphones jacks and really good hardware . I don’t know about lineage OS, but there’s a EU roms for Xiaomi phones that get rid of all their useless shit. The weirdest thing is that it’s actually a kinda-official custom ROM.

nowadays, all the phones are pretty similar in terms of perf, unless you’re into mobile gaming/video editing/AI, it doesn’t matter. A 12GB Ram, 512GB phone is completely future proof. Heck, if there’s ever a desktop mode added on Android, it’s more than enough for 99% of regular computer usage.

possiblylinux127 ,

I have found that 3gb and 32gb storage are enough

Diabolo96 ,

3GB RAM, maybe. 32 GB ROM ? No…

possiblylinux127 ,

It works for me. Also if I ever need it I do have a micro SD

possiblylinux127 ,

It works well with a 3gb device. I honestly was expecting it to croak but it works better than new phones with Google junk.

Ilandar ,

Yeah I have a Redmi Note 4X running Android 13 LineageOS. It still runs okay.

jimmy90 ,

i’m running 14 on an S4 mini, i think they made some great changes

possiblylinux127 ,

It looks like 13

If feels more like a feature release

possiblylinux127 ,

Google bloat.

My 3gb of ram works fine with background apps and Lineage OS 21. (Android 14)

dinckelman ,

The update ecosystem is still continuously being crippled by both the device vendors, and for some fucking reason, the carriers

evo ,

Who cares. Play Services backwards compatibility for new Android APIs and security updates being separated from the OS make this irrelevant.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No.

possiblylinux127 ,

Yes

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No. Android is a lot more than Play services. Like, you can run it without them and it is still Android.

possiblylinux127 ,

But security patches for the OS come outside of the firmware. Also I haven’t heard of a serious exploit in a while.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

According to GrapheneOS devs, a lot of security issues are inside the firmware

possiblylinux127 ,

I don’t believe them

Moonrise2473 ,

Why surprised? They’re still selling stuff with Android 11

There are so many OEMs that are dropping new phones every week and obviously don’t have resources to support the previous phones after 6 months

I bought a brand new Redmi for my mom in September 2022 and the latest update available as of today (security update) is dated July 2022

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Wtf! Crazy…

nossaquesapao ,

I’ve been looking for some e-ink tablets running android, and all the ones I found on chinese sites were sold with android 11.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

I dont know why Android 11 is such a sweet spot. Waydroid also uses it.

Teknikal ,

I’m on 14 but to be honest the only difference I really noticed is GTA Vice City got broken by it I presume it will never be fixed since they seem to have done another version.

So yeah it’s really only taught me not to buy apps again I’m not a fan of the restricted folder/file manager restrictions either.

dan1101 ,

I’m still on 11 because that’s it for a Moto G Stylus 2020.

possiblylinux127 ,

My moto g7 power runs the latest version of Lineage OS

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

they don’t really need to now that google has moved a lot of the core functions into google play

possiblylinux127 , (edited )

Why is it funny again?

Also stock Lineage OS with just F-droid is the way to go. It is clean and simple.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

LineageOS was not fully degoogled before GrapheneOS devs came and did that. I think now LineageOS also has these patches.

They also dont apply hardening, also not for privacy. The webview for example is just Chromium.

There are a ton of features, all listed on grapheneos.org

Many are pretty technical, a lot of them are for very high threat models. I mean, we still all manage to kinda not get hacked. But that may be because we live under governments that are not full dystopia, yet. Or because we are just boring.

GrapheneOS is likely overkill, but I like to have the most security I can get. These guys are doing amazing work, hacking Android at very low levels. For example they found a way to completely disable the USB port, I think using the same mechanism as the “water detection” would use to shut it off.

Or storage and contact scopes, or the hardening everywhere. Pin scrambling.

A lot could be improved, LineageOS has way better AOSP apps for example. These should land in GrapheneOS.

possiblylinux127 ,

I’ll just keep using Lineage OS as that’s what works best for me. You can use what you want but my experience is that the Graphene community is toxic and arrogant. I don’t want to be a part of that community. If anything I would use Calyx OS

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

It is true that there is toxicity and arrogance among these people. I can forgive them because

  1. They are right (and even if I think they are not, they know more about it so I couldnt out-argument them)
  2. They work on a FOSS OS that is extremely secure and private. Literally doing the most important work, protecting vulnerable people etc.
  3. They need to fight against misinformation every day. The amount of noobs on their forum is pretty insane, and a lot of companies and other projects spread misinformation, sell near-EOL or already EOL devices etc.

CalyxOS is way less secure, in a lot of parts. It is mainly just LineageOS.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

F-Droid is also targeted at very old Android devices. On modern Android, “F-Droid Basic” is better.

possiblylinux127 ,

It really isn’t. F-droid is built for currently supported versions of Android. F-droid basic is just what it sounds like. It is basic and not really usable for me as the layout is goofy.

dandroid ,

I can’t think of a single thing that’s changed in Android since like Android 9. There’s no reason to upgrade.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Just because you cant think of anything, that doesnt say nothing has changed.

Google hides it a bit, but Android 9 is years ago. 5?

Just study the GrapheneOS release notes alone

grapheneos.org/releases

dandroid ,

My point wasn’t that nothing changed. My point was that if I haven’t noticed the changes, they must not be important. I would be perfectly happy with Android 9 right now. It would make zero difference to me, so why would I go out of my way or pay money for a new phone to upgrade?

pathief ,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

I’d upgrade if given the choice to do so. Lineage is stuck on Android 12 for my device so I guess that’s it.

cranberryjam ,
@cranberryjam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

My phone was on 11 and wasn’t receiving security updates so I said fuck it and installed lineage os. Nice experience so far, hoping to make this phone last at least a few more years.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

LineageOS has very slow updates. Also they dont have access to all the code they need. I dont even know if they port a newer Kernel to these devices, so they likely still run the outdated, vulnerable kernel they used before.

Also, they dont have access to the Firmware signing keys so they cant deliver firmware updates, which (especially mobile network stuff) causes a ton of security issues.

Sucks…

possiblylinux127 ,

Lineage OS is updated monthly. Also what are you talking about? The code is all available and under a libre license I might add. From a kernel perspective you can’t just port a newer kernel. That’s not how Android works. It has been done on some devices but it is very hard and usually very impossible for one reason or another.

From a signing perspective I don’t know but usually you get the firmware from the upstream manufacturer such as Qualcomm. From a security perspective phones aren’t very good as the modem runs its own software and is a total black box.

I don’t understand your motivations

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

The code is all available and under a libre license I might add. From

Not the proprietary drivers that vendors may build into their versions of Android.

From a kernel perspective you can’t just port a newer kernel. That’s not how Android works. It

Tell my why?

It has been done on some devices but it is very hard and usually very impossible for one reason or another.

The kernel is highly modified, yes. Porting is a ton of work, which is exactly what I said. Thats the reason why there is no support for newer kernels most of the time.

you get the firmware from the upstream manufacturer such as Qualcomm.

Yes and if they stop sending it, you dont get security patches here anymore. Cant sign it, cant patch it. What I said.

as the modem runs its own software and is a total black box.

Absolutely. Luckily Airplane mode is pretty good.

I don’t understand your motivations

People here tell a lot of wrong things. Like that LineageOS could support devices fully after they are dropped by their vendor. Or that running some old version of Android is fine, while they just focus on UI elements.

possiblylinux127 ,

“Wrong things” are just your opinion. You and people like you are the reason I don’t care for Graphene OS. Take your throwns else where.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No, thats not an opinion. But to be honest it doesnt matter what you use. That just matters to you and people close to you.

downpunxx , (edited )

Galaxy S10 Android 12 UI 4.1 til the wheels come off (a.k.a banking/gpay apps stop working due to lack of latest security updates), there are no advances in the last 6 years that I've owned my phone which in any way have tempted me to throw out another thousand dollars for.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

I doubt you have followed all CVEs fixed in newer Android versions.

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