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[YT] Less Than Half of Android Users Have Upgraded to Android 13 or 14! 🤯

Funny, the comment types here are the same as on Youtube:

  1. “I still run Android and it is totally fine, will never switch Android just got worse!”
  2. “Well, money”
  3. “Companies need to support phones longer”
  4. "I just use LineageOS on that device"
  5. Misinformation
cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

they don’t really need to now that google has moved a lot of the core functions into google play

nossaquesapao ,

I don’t blame the users. There’s usually no way to upgrade android versions, so we get stuck unless we replace the phone, and most people can’t afford to replace their phones so often. I’d go further and say that people shouldn’t be supposed to replace their phones because of a new software version. The android’s distribution model is flawed, we should be able to upgrade our phones the same way we upgrade linux distros. If it was possible, then I would blame users for running unmaintained software.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Keep in mind that many Linux users have Laptops with no firmware updates anymore.

But I agree of course, we need laws for that

dandroid ,

I can’t think of a single thing that’s changed in Android since like Android 9. There’s no reason to upgrade.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Just because you cant think of anything, that doesnt say nothing has changed.

Google hides it a bit, but Android 9 is years ago. 5?

Just study the GrapheneOS release notes alone

grapheneos.org/releases

dandroid ,

My point wasn’t that nothing changed. My point was that if I haven’t noticed the changes, they must not be important. I would be perfectly happy with Android 9 right now. It would make zero difference to me, so why would I go out of my way or pay money for a new phone to upgrade?

possiblylinux127 , (edited )

Why is it funny again?

Also stock Lineage OS with just F-droid is the way to go. It is clean and simple.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

LineageOS was not fully degoogled before GrapheneOS devs came and did that. I think now LineageOS also has these patches.

They also dont apply hardening, also not for privacy. The webview for example is just Chromium.

There are a ton of features, all listed on grapheneos.org

Many are pretty technical, a lot of them are for very high threat models. I mean, we still all manage to kinda not get hacked. But that may be because we live under governments that are not full dystopia, yet. Or because we are just boring.

GrapheneOS is likely overkill, but I like to have the most security I can get. These guys are doing amazing work, hacking Android at very low levels. For example they found a way to completely disable the USB port, I think using the same mechanism as the “water detection” would use to shut it off.

Or storage and contact scopes, or the hardening everywhere. Pin scrambling.

A lot could be improved, LineageOS has way better AOSP apps for example. These should land in GrapheneOS.

possiblylinux127 ,

I’ll just keep using Lineage OS as that’s what works best for me. You can use what you want but my experience is that the Graphene community is toxic and arrogant. I don’t want to be a part of that community. If anything I would use Calyx OS

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

It is true that there is toxicity and arrogance among these people. I can forgive them because

  1. They are right (and even if I think they are not, they know more about it so I couldnt out-argument them)
  2. They work on a FOSS OS that is extremely secure and private. Literally doing the most important work, protecting vulnerable people etc.
  3. They need to fight against misinformation every day. The amount of noobs on their forum is pretty insane, and a lot of companies and other projects spread misinformation, sell near-EOL or already EOL devices etc.

CalyxOS is way less secure, in a lot of parts. It is mainly just LineageOS.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

F-Droid is also targeted at very old Android devices. On modern Android, “F-Droid Basic” is better.

possiblylinux127 ,

It really isn’t. F-droid is built for currently supported versions of Android. F-droid basic is just what it sounds like. It is basic and not really usable for me as the layout is goofy.

pathief ,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

I’d upgrade if given the choice to do so. Lineage is stuck on Android 12 for my device so I guess that’s it.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Google really needs to decouple the hardware from the OS. There’s no good reason newer Android couldn’t be installed on older phones.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Google doesnt do anything here. The OEMs need to port the Android kernel to older hardware.

They often just support one LTS kernel.

But Android even supports the LTS kernel for 6 years now.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Google develops Android and thus is responsible for it’s update scheme. They already changed it quite a bit in the last years with GSIs and Project Treble but there’s still no real seperation that would allow the same drivers and hardware blobs to be used independent of the Android Version or updating the Android version without these needing to be included every time.

That’s what needs to change.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Their own phones have support for the mainline kernel. It is the vendors that dont want to upstream their drivers and produce half-proprietary garbage they dont publish, so nobody can update these devices.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

But Googles decides, that that is possible. I fthey changed the structure to enforce a seperation there’s nothing that would keep Android updates from those devices. Put all hardware and device specific stuf in a seperate layer and have it accessible to the updatable system. And it’s not like these vendors have an alternative to go to

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Put all hardware and device specific stuf in a seperate layer

Could you elaborate?

Android uses Linux, a monolithic kernel. You cant just separate drivers.

I also heard that OEMs write horrible drivers, which wouldnt work on a microkernel without maaajor porting issues.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

And there are Linux distros with rolling releases, where the drivers stay where they are and the OS around them gets updated without issue. I’m sure the smart people at the Android team could do something similar

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

The drivers are in the kernel, kept updated with every release. As I said, pixels at least boot with mainline kernel support, but the Android kernel is modded.

And then manifacturer use out of tree drivers as core part of their kernel.

MaggiWuerze ,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.org avatar

Yes I know the manufacturers do, but there’s no reason for the drivers to be replaced when the kernel is updated, you could hold them separately or reapply them after an update

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

This doesnt always work as nonstable kernels (or even porting to a newer kernel) changes in their interface.

Like, backportig patches to a 6 year or more old kernel is crazy! My 6a runs on 5.14 and that is a currently supported phone.

MonkderDritte , (edited )

Google doesnt do anything here. The OEMs need to port the Android kernel to older hardware.

Wrong. Google had multiple projects like Treble to decouple the software from the hardware. What happened with it?

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

You can run new android on an old kernel, see lineageos

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Yes and this is not secure. The kernel runs as root.

possiblylinux127 ,

The kernel is the problem

Moonrise2473 ,

Why surprised? They’re still selling stuff with Android 11

There are so many OEMs that are dropping new phones every week and obviously don’t have resources to support the previous phones after 6 months

I bought a brand new Redmi for my mom in September 2022 and the latest update available as of today (security update) is dated July 2022

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Wtf! Crazy…

nossaquesapao ,

I’ve been looking for some e-ink tablets running android, and all the ones I found on chinese sites were sold with android 11.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

I dont know why Android 11 is such a sweet spot. Waydroid also uses it.

downpunxx , (edited )

Galaxy S10 Android 12 UI 4.1 til the wheels come off (a.k.a banking/gpay apps stop working due to lack of latest security updates), there are no advances in the last 6 years that I've owned my phone which in any way have tempted me to throw out another thousand dollars for.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

I doubt you have followed all CVEs fixed in newer Android versions.

cranberryjam ,
@cranberryjam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

My phone was on 11 and wasn’t receiving security updates so I said fuck it and installed lineage os. Nice experience so far, hoping to make this phone last at least a few more years.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

LineageOS has very slow updates. Also they dont have access to all the code they need. I dont even know if they port a newer Kernel to these devices, so they likely still run the outdated, vulnerable kernel they used before.

Also, they dont have access to the Firmware signing keys so they cant deliver firmware updates, which (especially mobile network stuff) causes a ton of security issues.

Sucks…

possiblylinux127 ,

Lineage OS is updated monthly. Also what are you talking about? The code is all available and under a libre license I might add. From a kernel perspective you can’t just port a newer kernel. That’s not how Android works. It has been done on some devices but it is very hard and usually very impossible for one reason or another.

From a signing perspective I don’t know but usually you get the firmware from the upstream manufacturer such as Qualcomm. From a security perspective phones aren’t very good as the modem runs its own software and is a total black box.

I don’t understand your motivations

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

The code is all available and under a libre license I might add. From

Not the proprietary drivers that vendors may build into their versions of Android.

From a kernel perspective you can’t just port a newer kernel. That’s not how Android works. It

Tell my why?

It has been done on some devices but it is very hard and usually very impossible for one reason or another.

The kernel is highly modified, yes. Porting is a ton of work, which is exactly what I said. Thats the reason why there is no support for newer kernels most of the time.

you get the firmware from the upstream manufacturer such as Qualcomm.

Yes and if they stop sending it, you dont get security patches here anymore. Cant sign it, cant patch it. What I said.

as the modem runs its own software and is a total black box.

Absolutely. Luckily Airplane mode is pretty good.

I don’t understand your motivations

People here tell a lot of wrong things. Like that LineageOS could support devices fully after they are dropped by their vendor. Or that running some old version of Android is fine, while they just focus on UI elements.

possiblylinux127 ,

“Wrong things” are just your opinion. You and people like you are the reason I don’t care for Graphene OS. Take your throwns else where.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No, thats not an opinion. But to be honest it doesnt matter what you use. That just matters to you and people close to you.

dan1101 ,

I’m still on 11 because that’s it for a Moto G Stylus 2020.

possiblylinux127 ,

My moto g7 power runs the latest version of Lineage OS

Teknikal ,

I’m on 14 but to be honest the only difference I really noticed is GTA Vice City got broken by it I presume it will never be fixed since they seem to have done another version.

So yeah it’s really only taught me not to buy apps again I’m not a fan of the restricted folder/file manager restrictions either.

RisingSwell ,

I’m still on 11, waiting on reviews for what phones have actually good phone signal. Haven’t really run in to any issues so I’m in no rush.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

The bad thing about security is, you only notice you are fucked when it is too late ;)

possiblylinux127 ,

I doubt it as the Android security model is actually pretty good. It isn’t immune but neither is anything else. It is all about least privilege. There is no root so the worse case is you just uninstall something manually.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Yes Android is way more secure than any random Linux distro. But you can still get hacked.

possiblylinux127 ,

Absolutely but so can anything else.

RisingSwell ,

I mean, that’s true, but paying $500 for a security update is a bit obscene given the rest of my phone is more powerful than i actually need despite being old and cheap. Until I find one that has very good signal or my current one breaks properly, I’m not burning that money for a device that i literally wont be able to tell is faster.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

It is not about speed. Security is abstract.

Device manifacturers obviously didnt have security in mind. And still, new phones are sold because of strange features nobody needs, instead of 10 years of updates and a headphone jack.

RisingSwell ,

Not to brag but I still do have a headphone jack. Gonna guess the security update being from 2022 is a bad thing though lmao

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

I mean, you can be on airplane mode with bluetooth and wifi off in public spaces. I would need to use a dongle (which doesnt exist! I needed to buy the Apple one)

RisingSwell ,

Funny enough, i actually disable bluetooth when I’m not using it, and i don’t use wifi on the phone (no home internet, so it isn’t gonna connect to anything anyway).

I’m gonna miss the rear fingerprint sensor as well when i finally replace it.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

True, in-display sensors are complete garbage. Slow, flashing in your face etc.

Idk if they are more secure (accurate) but they suck.

evo ,

Who cares. Play Services backwards compatibility for new Android APIs and security updates being separated from the OS make this irrelevant.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No.

possiblylinux127 ,

Yes

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

No. Android is a lot more than Play services. Like, you can run it without them and it is still Android.

possiblylinux127 ,

But security patches for the OS come outside of the firmware. Also I haven’t heard of a serious exploit in a while.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

According to GrapheneOS devs, a lot of security issues are inside the firmware

possiblylinux127 ,

I don’t believe them

dinckelman ,

The update ecosystem is still continuously being crippled by both the device vendors, and for some fucking reason, the carriers

shortwavesurfer ,

Personally, I am still on 13 using lineage OS. I have been offered Android 14, but in order to do that, I might have to either wipe my device or at least plug it into a computer and neither of which I particularly want to do at the moment. Running Android 13 has been perfectly fine for me.

limerod ,

Didn’t lineageOS allow OTA updates like regular android smartphones?

shortwavesurfer ,

For patches to the same version, yes. But, for upgrades between versions, not yet. At least not that I’m aware of.

Now, GrapheneOS on the Google Pixel can update between versions and security patches to the current version too. So it’s fully there, but to my knowledge, lineage does not allow version upgrades.

limerod ,

Bummer, this increases the friction for upgrades.

shortwavesurfer ,

Yeah, it most definitely does. Though, on the other hand, you get a device with the newest lineage on it, and you can hold onto that for 4 or 5 or 6 years, and then upgrade, and just put lineage on the new device when you upgrade. And you jump like 7 versions at a time. The big problem isn’t necessarily upgrades as security patches.

possiblylinux127 ,

I like the latest and greatest personally. Also you can keep a device for a really long time with Lineage OS

possiblylinux127 ,

I think it is suppost to be a safety mechanism to keep you from jumping without looking. You can just download the image to an SD card. I sometimes do that for regular updates as it is often way faster.

ByteMe ,
@ByteMe@lemmy.world avatar

I recently upgraded from android 13 to 14 on Lineage and didn’t have to wipe but to be honest, there was nothing new. Only back gestures were an interesting addition

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

You dont see security patches…

possiblylinux127 ,

It is patched monthly. Also there hasn’t been a lot of major security issues with Android. It has a pretty tight security model.

endoflife.date/lineageos

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Android is pretty secure. The kernel is highly stripped down, so it is more like a microkernel. Like, removing support for most filesystems etc.

They also moved a ton of things into userspace, I think their entire filesystem uses fuse.

Android is really good.

But still, LineageOS may implement all the minimum AOSP patches. But Google Pixel phones get more than those.

And monthly is of course slower than weekly, bjt expected if you support such a vast range of devices.

Then the issue of course is, is the firmware still supported? Where do the kernels come from?

These are likely out of reach for the devs.

Also, their OS is very generic, just AOSP with mostly cosmetic changes.

Where GrapheneOS implements tons of deep modifications, which makes updates and maintenance a bigger task. These features also cause more bugs which need fixing.

possiblylinux127 ,

Weekly updates wouldn’t work at all and would take lots of time. From a Lineage OS perspective they maintain there own apps as the AOSP ones are abandoned. They all match the Android 14 UI. Also the default web browser is actually a usable browser.

I don’t really understand the Graphene OS die hards. At the end of the day they are both from the same source. The issues with Graphene is it has a lot of extra bloat and complexity. It also is not really stock AOSP which isn’t as nice. Lineage OS isn’t stock either but they don’t make changes unless it has a very really cosmetic benefit. I don’t really care for Graphene OS.

boredsquirrel OP ,
@boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net avatar

Yes the LineageOS apps are really nice. GrapheneOS usese the same, but the old versions.

They maintain different apps.

Their core OS is even more minimal than that of LineageOS, apart from shipping an extremely privacy and security optimized variant of Chromium. So no bloat there.

complexity, yes.

ByteMe ,
@ByteMe@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I meant android wise

shortwavesurfer ,

Were you able to do it over the air or did you have to connect to a computer to do so?

possiblylinux127 ,

You can’t do a Android version upgrade via OTA. You need to either flash it with a computer or use an SD card and the recovery tools.

ByteMe ,
@ByteMe@lemmy.world avatar

No, “ota”

shortwavesurfer ,

Yeah, I can’t do that. I’m on the OnePlus Nord N200. And it does not give me that option.

possiblylinux127 ,

It is a pretty painless experience. Just download the image onto a SD card and then use the recovery options to flash it. There aren’t that many changes to Android this time around. The good news is that you have plenty of time.

endoflife.date/lineageos

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