He has went on record multiple times saying having sex with children (even within the family) or family pets is fine. Eating his foot gunk is the least of my issues with him.
That said, when it comes to warning about software, he was pretty bang-on.
It’s pretty well-known at this point, I thought? Regardless:
“The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, ‘prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia’ also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally–but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.”
RMS on June 28th, 2003
"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. "
RMS on June 5th, 2006
"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children.
RMS on Jan 4th, 2013
You can find these on Stallman’s blog, which I believe is Stallman.org iirc. Just go to the dates I provided.
I said from there you can go to the dates I provided.
I don’t wish to be rude, but do you really need this hand-holding? It took me less than 10 seconds to find a specific link to the first quote, for example:
You pasted the domain not an actual blog post link. And you’re the one making these claims about him on a forum, does it really surprise you when someone asks for the source? Sorry you had to google something.
How is it that you’re so well-versed in all of Stallman’s negative quotes (from over a decade ago), yet conveniently omitted the fact that he later retracted those statements?
On September 16, 2019, Stallman announced his resignation from both MIT and FSF, “due to pressure on MIT and me over a series of misunderstandings and mischaracterizations”.[124] In a post on his website, Stallman asserted that his posts to the email lists were not to defend Epstein, stating "Nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve called him a ‘serial rapist’, and said he deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I defended him—and other inaccurate claims—and feel a real hurt because of what they believe I said.
The FSF board on April 12 made a statement re-affirming its decision to bring back Richard Stallman.[133] Following this, Stallman issued a statement explaining his poor social skills and apologizing.[134]
Those issues are ones that it’s hard to just walk back with a mea culpa, especially when the apology comes precisely when it starts to impact your career.
We should all probably start donating to Firefox. Isn’t Google their main source of income?
There might come a time when they prefer to gut Firefox, forcing Mozilla to either reject uBlock Origin or die (or they could simply pull the plug on funding knowing they’ll earn more when people go back to Chrome-based browsers)
Mozilla still does pretty good without any donations
because Google pays them so that they keep offering Google as the default search engine. now that Google has been declared a monopoly, they might not be allowed to do that anymore, which means Mozilla loses its funding.
Don’t donate to a shitty for-profit that masks itself with their non-profit company. Instead donate to something like Ladybird, whom are currently in early development but have no plans on adding features that actively spy on you (FakeSpot, Pocket), and they don’t need $500 fucking million to develop a web browser.
And if you’re going to talk about Mozilla’s social work, just don’t. I’ve already seen it.
If you have anything to say against the things I have said, please follow these instructions; stop downvoting, slowly take your mouth off of Mozilla’s balls, and try to actually engage in a constructive conversation on why the things I said were wrong.
Downvotes are pretty good at expressing that you disagree with someone, but using words to communicate why you disagree with someone is marginally better, where both parties learn something about the thing they’re discussing.
You have zero idea how much engineering it takes to create a standards compliant engine and then maintain it. “And you don’t need half a fucking billion just to develop a web browser”. Technically this is true if you are willing to use someone else’s web engine. Firefox aren’t doing that, and it requires huge investment to maintain their own engine. There is a reason only large companies these days (Apple, Google, Mozilla) have their own engines. The actual browser part is tiny compared to the engine. We are talking about something the size of the Linux kernel or bigger, that gets far less contributions from outside sources. It actually makes perfect sense they are looking at starting other projects when you think that all other companies that do this kind of work need those other projects to remain profitable. Web engine development from my understanding does not pay. You get almost the same amount of money using somebody else’s engine as you do developing your own, yet one costs way more.
The fact Mozilla manages to maintain a better web engine than Apple’s WebKit only from Google’s advertising money is actually incredible. Did I mention Apple didn’t even start that engine themselves? It’s based on KHTML. Chrome is in turn a WebKit derivative. Firefox on the other hand actually comes from Netscape, and was first developed under the name Mozilla based on Netscape’s code. So Mozilla has put in more work than Google in modernising their engine.
Thank you. Yes, they are also developing their own web engine, which is a very complicated piece of software because of the current sad state of the web. But it doesn’t excuse any of the things I mentioned, and web engine development still doesn’t suckle up that much money as we can see from their current revenue and other efforts to make an independent web engine such as Ladybird.
I agree with you on your last paragraph, but there are some things I’m bothered with. Mozilla is (or was) a company that focused on one thing, their web browser. Apple and Google are (and were) different, in that they have a vast range of products to maintain. And Gecko is most definitely inferior to Blink in terms of speed, although I’m not familiar with any of their “modernity”.
other efforts to make an independent web engine such as Ladybird.
Notice the word efforts here. No one has actually succeeded yet despite multiple attempts, some even by Mozilla themselves like Servo. Ladybird is not a fully functioning browser yet. Are they anywhere even close yet? Even if they are close it also has to be fast. Google and Mozilla have spent quite a bit of time, money, and effort making their JavaScript engines as fast as possible.
I will have a look at some of the links you have given, but honestly I think most criticism thrown at Mozilla isn’t anything close to what the alternatives are guilty of, and is mostly done by conspiracy nuts. The kind of people were Mastodon and Lemmy is their only social media, and refuse to own a modern smartphone that isn’t running custom firmware.
Ladybird is fairly new. Just like how Mozilla didn’t get Gecko to this point in 1 year, Ladybird will take years of development to become a reliable browser and browser engine.
I pretty much agree with you. The alternatives are far worse. Seeing Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge being literal spyware, other Chromium-based browsers cutting out support for content-blocking extensions Firefox is vastly superior to them in terms of privacy. Although that still doesn’t mean Firefox is good, at least if we’re past talking about web browser engines etc., using another Firefox-based browser which is less bloated (Firefox Sync off by default, no Pocket, no recommendations in Addons tab), more privacy-friendly (all telemetry off by default, uBlock Origin installed by default, some hardening options from about:config enabled by default) seems to be the best choice currently, since other options like GNOME’s Epiphany and KDE’s Falkon sucks, if we’re being honest.
And I do kind of fit your description, if we exclude being a conspiracy-theorist.
I actually use Firefox sync. In fact I think all of that is quite unnecessary given what the policies you brought up actually state as was discussed in another comment. Everyone should be using AdBlock at this point, and I am planning to setup network wide AdBlock and malware block at my home in the future.
And I do kind of fit your description, if we exclude being a conspiracy-theorist.
Yeah I thought you could be. Nothing wrong with using a de-googled phone. Lemmy while a great idea is full of extremists. The kinds of people who go to that level of effort to cut out Google and social media tend to be uber paranoid. It’s a shame that people are divided into three groups regarding piracy: unknowing sheep, people who know but don’t care, and conspiracy nuts. The kind of person who hears something vaguely sketchy from someone and immediately jumps to the conclusion they need to boycott that company. Very rarely do you get reasonable, informed people who actually care with regards to online privacy without thinking every single organisation is out to get them (even non-profit like Mozilla or Wikipedia). It’s why things like the legislation the EU comes up with is necessary, to protect those who won’t or can’t protect themselves.
Oh also the devs behind Ladybrid are apparently against anyone who isn’t male using their technology. People tried to change masculine pronouns in the documentation to neutral pronouns just to be more grammatically accurate, and it started a whole chain of GitHub arguments arguing the change is “political”. Apparently it’s political not to imply that every computer user is a man.
There are many software from bigots and shitheads that still get used, being seperated from their creator (e.g. Hyprland, I guess you can put here some social media platforms like Xitter if we’re not only talking about open-source software). Although I prefer not using or supporting such software, I’ve not been able to find what you’re talking about. I’ve tried searching “ladybird pronoun controversy (forgive my search engine skills)” and other similar sentences but nothing really related pops up, so it would be great if you told me your source. Thank you!
The whole Vaxxry controversy is largely bullshit from both sides. The original complaint was something said in his Discord server, and that he didn’t police it enough. Not something bigoted he himself said. Vaxxry was right to defend himself given their CoC doesn’t apply to his Discord server, and talking about how they are trying to improve the moderation there.
Vaxxry from the little I know of him doesn’t seem that bigoted. He certainly isn’t progressive by any means. He does espouse tolerance for other political viewpoints, which is more than can be said for a lot of projects.
It’s on there GitHub. I would have linked earlier but search engines don’t seem to pick it up.
Thank you very much! I guess it makes sense a little bit that the lead developer of an older-style operating system is a conservative, but I was still not expecting it. It’s pretty sad that this seems to be the only new web browser engine that has actual support.
Yeah it’s really annoying. We need more browser engines and alternatives to the current web standards. The current way these things is not fit for purpose, and is making it easy for google to establish a monopoly on the web. I think wasm helps with this somewhat, but it isn’t popular enough yet nor is it a complete solution.
I’ve read the one for fakespot. Given what it’s designed to do then having your purchase history makes perfect sense. How else are they meant to make recommendations? If you really have a problem just don’t use that service. The only real criticism here is the name doesn’t imply they also make product recommendations. Nevertheless they explain that on the website.
I have skimmed the pocket one, and as far as I can tell they aren’t doing anything dodgy. Keeping information only to provide the service, and some anonymised analytics to see how it’s actually being used. The later is needed to direct development effort.
In summary: Not everyone is out to get you. Some information is needed to provide services.
Edit: sorry for there different comments, wanted to come back and do more research before I finished making a statement.
Yeah, no problem at all. This is a lot better than people downvoting and not actually talking about what they disagree on. Felt like r/apple.
Reading it again, Pocket’s privacy policy is actually not that bad. Thankfully it was not one of those 100 page ones that are made to confuse the shit out of consumers, but I have a slight problem with it.
“Personalized Advertising: Some Pocket web pages have ads. With your consent, Pocket’s ad partners will place advertising cookies on your device to personalize the ads you see here and on other websites.”
How does this consent exactly work? Is it just a simple check you have to tick in your account settings, or is it one of those cookie banners that require you to untick 800 advertising partners to “not give consent”? I’m not exactly a Pocket user so I’m a bit ignorant about it.
Though there doesn’t seem to be another privacy concern with Pocket. It seems I had misconceptions about their practices.
The one other problem I have with Pocket though is, it’s not a feature that should be in a browser, it should be an extension. They have already made a lot of extensions for features that not all of the userbase might need, even FakeSpot is currently an extension (approximately 40,000 users). I guess this is a whole another argument though.
I will write my thoughts about FakeSpot in another reply.
Okay, what does a sweepstake or a contest have to do with a browser extension, made to spot fake reviews. Trade shows? What?
I did take a look at this privacy policy before to check if the extension was worth installing, but holy fuck I didn’t see that.
And they collect a lot of things, supposedly “automatically”. I have never developed a browser extension, but does the browser force this information on the extension? Do they just look at their data collection and find the geolocation of their users, how they accessed the extension download page, browser specifics etc.?
They also sell your “automatically collected” geolocation data, “internet or other electronic network activity”, “inferences drawn from other personal information to create a profile about a consumer”, and “commercial information”. I’ve quoted the three data selling points I really don’t understand, since their “descriptions” aren’t very descriptive. But if we are to fully trust the lawful descriptions they provided, I hope the extension stays at 40,000 users really.
A lot of this is the same kind of things amazon do to make purchase suggestions. It is fairly invasive but also effective. There are even some customers who appreciate this kind of thing. I will say though that the name is misleading. It dosen’t just spot fakes, it seems to be designed as a shopping assitant or search engine who’s stand out feature is pointing out fakes. I think there is a place in the market for such a thing, but they need to be careful of how they market that and what data is actually needed to be collected. Ideally they should put in a system where you can opt in to personalised recommendations and collect data for only those people who require that feature. It also needs to be spelled out clearly what this involves in terms of data collected and who sees the data. Regardless I don’t think it should be enabled by default in Firefox. Including it in the browser isn’t so bad provided they don’t get up to microsoft-like shenanigans pushing people to use it.
This is what drives me mad about Mozilla. Let me donate to Firefox! I don’t want to donate to another hairbrained idea to “diversify your revenue streams” - I want to donate to Firefox.
As I’ve said many times before, Firefox would be better off as an opencollective-driven, smaller (50-ish) team, with code on Codeberg, than driven by a 600 strong org who needs to compete with SF salaries and fancy offices. They have become Google by another name and it ain’t healthy.
I like LibreWolf! But while they may be the natural successor to a folded Firefox, they would need to beef up dramatically to actually be the stewards of the codebase. Right now they do a good job at removing stuff, but setting a direction for a browser that zings with users requires a fully fledged product org.
I actually think it’s a good thing they are seeking other income sources. After all Google is both their competitor and main income source while being under investigation by the government. Firefox barely manages to keep up with Chrome as-is. Nevermind if they had a team a fraction of its current size. It’s just not really practical for a project this size and scope to have a small plucky team. It needs a big organisation of some kind behind it. Ideally one like Google or Microsoft who can pull income from more profitable projects to pay for better browser engineering. It’s also needed so they can have a say in web standards. An organisation like that also has more ways to make money from their browser like with ChromeOS and Android. Firefox actually tried to make their own smartphone OS, to be honest I am annoyed they didn’t succeed. It would have given us a real alternative to Android while giving them needed income.
Is Servo independent of Mozilla now? It’s instructive how much they swayed when Mozilla cut them away, but seems they’ve found a new team to steward it.
Ladybird I hadn’t heard of so thank you for the suggestion. I’ll check them out.
You’re absolutely right, ~80% of Mozilla’s revenue is from Google’s paying to be the default search engine in Firefox - and the US is going after Google for it’s anticompetitive behaviors as we speak. Ad blocking aside, Mozilla is going to need help pretty soon anyways if Google gets their monopoly broken up.
The only thing that runs Chrome is my work computer only because they installed it and who gives a fuck if they get hacked? I don’t even discern search results because I don’t get paid enough to care.
Just make sure your router is updated. I recommend gl.inet routers if you’re a beginner - easy to keep up to date and their version of OpenWRT has AdGuard installed. Malware can affect more than just the computer you use
I never do personal stuff or even search for non-work related stuff on the machine, and when I’m at home it’s on a guest network by itself on a different subnet. Outside of work hours I manually turn off wifi on the machine and block it on the router.
Use Firefox. If something you use ABSOLUTELY needs Chromium yell at whoever makes the thing. If that still doesn’t work use Brave. But then go back to Firefox for everything else.
I know its everyone’s personal choice and all that but in my opinion people should stop using chromium engine browsers. It was a good engine however the fact that chromium has the majority users is the only thing holding lazy developers from porting websites to work with other browser engines gives google more control.
Most “browsers” being marketed out there are based off of Google’s Chromium project. They are effectively re-skins of it (simplifying a little). Examples include Brave, Vivaldi, Opera I believe.
Firefox is completely separate and independent from this ecosystem (which is also why there’s a separate extension store for Firefox).
The third and last major (>a couple % market share) engine is WebKit, which is the basis of Apple’s Safari.
There’s tons of cool stuff out there, but it’s either niche (platform/use case), unstable to use, and/or both. Examples: Servo, Ladybird, Orion
To sum it up, if you’re a normal, average user:
If you have exclusively Apple devices, probably try Safari (for the synchronization & battery efficiency)
If not, Firefox!
If you need it because of some really messed up development/compatibility issues, the last resort is ungoogled/de-googled Chromium
While on the topic, here’s some cool browser extensions:
long answer: Most people just like to shout-out what they like, and don’t want to know your use case. If you need pc/mobile sync, Firefox will be your best choice here.
What you are missing out on? Probably not much. Some sites might even work worse if you switch, due to lazyness or sabotage by devs.
Using Firefox is good for the ecosystem in general, to have a counter balance to Google. I use both Firefox and chromium and see very little difference. Some extensions might be worth it (like the title says), so that might be a difference for you.
I use Brave as my Chrome based browser when not using Floorp but there were other issues with Brave in the past like injecting their affiliate links unbeknownst to users so they could make money off them. They have reverted that decision but that they thought it was acceptable in the first place leaves some to question, rightly, what other shenanigans they might pull. They’ve also had issues with paying out Creators BAT tokens.
Yep company’s not totally trustworthy neither is Google neither is Microsoft. By the way, Firefox still sends all of your websites to Google to get safe traffic prompts.
Brave also got and slapped by the SEC for the handling of their crypto sales.
The link issue you’re speaking of was 4 years ago. The CEO issued a formal apology.
They’re a funded company they are trying to make money to pay the developers to stay solvent.
On the upside they’re using that money to fight Google’s ad blocking and to keep manifest V3 optional.
The way they block the ads happens outside of manifest so even if they take the manifest code they still won’t have ads. Of the chromium ancestry browsers they are the most likely to continue running long-term. They’re also the fastest solution for YouTube blocking when YouTube makes changes.
I main Firefox but still use brave over edge or opera.
Right now, we need all the boats we have. Not everything works in Firefox you need to have a backup,
Brave altered URLs clicked to add their own affiliate links. Browsers should go to where you click. That’s like their whole job. There are reasons to dislike Brave apart from crypto.
Are you talking about this? They say it only calls out to get updated lists and when you actually arrive at a phishing page to check if the page is still marked as suspicious.
Also, I agree it was 4 years ago. That’s a fair point. To me it’s super important and they’ve probably permanently lost my trust (or at least it’s always going to be besmudged). If you believe they’ve changed in that time period (or it’s not as critical to you) then that’s fine.
For what it’s worth, when I need a Chromium based browser because the site has a bug and won’t work with Firefox my (current) go to is Brave. I use it on a semi regular basis because dndbeyond.com works poorly with Firefox. So every 2 to 4 weeks I use it for that.
You can also disable FF from connecting to safe browsing with flags. I prefer to let my DNS handle that list.
My Work ADP portal also misbehaves in FF.
I’ve also made FF stop using Google search for anything.
I advocate people use whatever works for them. I’d advocate for Edge, but they have already clarified they intend to follow Chrome to the letter.
Vivaldi has claimed they intend to fork and not enforce V3, but acknowledge it’s no small feat and they may fail.
Operam I believe has claimed they intend not to enforce V3
Brave goes as far as saying that they’re immune to it even if they turned it on.
I don’t trust any browser 100% Firefox was close and is still my most trusted.
I’m down with pushing everyone into Firefox, but I’m not loving the chrome variant hate. Use whatever works unless the browsers are currently acting bad.
right but can we still have spiders pop out of the phone of anyone who visits our website on an OS other than iOS? or did they put that off until HTML6?
Having ublock on mobile is such a breath of fresh air. I wish I had made the transition sooner. I knew this was coming and completed my transition a few weeks back so I could abandon Chrome on my own time table and not on Google’s. Other than a little headache trying to find extension replacements for pc, I’m LOVING it.
I switched from Chrome to Firefox in 2019 because that’s when Google adopted Manifest V3 and I never looked back. There were already articles then describing how it’d break ad blockers, and Firefox had at the time just recently released their “Quantum” overhaul which drastically improved responsiveness.
I’m a bit surprised it took five years for Google to drop support for Manifest V2, but the threat has long been there.
I remember the Quantum release. They remade how the browser handled tabs, and with the new release you could handle (almost) unlimited number of tabs. I tried this buy opening as many tabs as I could, it worked flawlessly. I can’t even remember how it was before that, except that it was RAM intensive.
I use Firefox as my main on my home pc. I keep running into things that don’t work on Firefox. Not by saying they don’t, just by throwing errors that make it sound like I put the wrong data in a field. Is there some magic extension to fix that?
The headline is a bit overdramatic. Google hasn’t pulled uBlock Origin off its extension webstore. Rather, it’s switching from Manifest v2 to Manifest v3, which won’t support features the current version of uBlock Origin needs to work. We’ve known this was in the process of happening for months. It’s a good reminder of what’s coming eventually (namely, the fact v2 extensions will be entirely disabled by Chrome soon), but this is nothing new.
Chromium. However other chromium browser’s have said they’ll either patch it to keep manifest V2 compatibility, or they won’t but you can still use their inbuilt ad-blocking.
Bullshit, they are trying to kneecap ad blocking to protect their bottom line. They could have protected people from sketchy add one without fucking up ublock
It’s not just large amounts of money. It’s chasing more and more money each quarter, and when it starts slowing down panic sets in and they start trying to find any and every possible avenue to keep profits up. It’s how we’ve ended up in subscription based hell and it’ll only get worse.
I’m pretty sure they would’ve been seeing ads anyways. I doubt that school IT administrators had uBlock Origins as an extension that was being installed and I really doubt they didn’t have the chromebooks locked down so students could install whatever extensions they wanted.
I was done with school before giving out computers to students was the norm, but my brother’s school district seems to be issuing Surface Laptops instead of Chromebooks. With Firefox preinstalled.
Wow those things can really get down in price. I think the district is issuing the original Surface Laptop Go, which went for about $500 when they were new and bought individually. No idea what kind of discount they could get for buying in bulk though, educational institution pricing is hidden behind having to “contact sales”.
The IT department at my daughter’s school allowed me to install the uBlock Origin extension last year. Granted, some extensions (and websites for that matter, no PornHub) were blocked, but not that one.
I’m willing to bet you’re the exception and not the rule. I can confirm from my own experience that we couldn’t even alter the system settings of the individual device.
Altering system settings wasn’t possible when I was in school, but browser settings weren’t so locked down. Extensions were freely available to install on the school computers.
That wasn’t the case for us, we couldn’t download anything that didn’t come pre-installed. If the teachers wanted to use a website that was blocked by the cartoonishly restrictive web filter they had to wait upwards of a week because all of the IT was done by one guy who was also a teacher.
I had a technology class when I was there that only had 6 students in this little computer lab in the back of the cafeteria. There were way more computers than than students though, so the few of us that were there started unplugging monitors from the unused computers next to us and giving our computers multiple monitors. We couldn’t rearrange the monitors since they were physically attached to the tables, and they couldn’t be reordered in Windows since system settings were locked, so we just had to remember that to get to the left monitor we’d actually have to move the mouse to the right for example.
Not even a week later, someone from IT showed up to check on things. We thought that would be it for our multi-monitor setups and they’d make us put them back, but not a beat was missed between them noticing what we had done, realizing that the monitors were in the wrong order, and offering to fix it for us in the settings.
Yeah our IT guy was cool and always tried to be helpful, it’s just that he was given the job of a whole team on top of being a full time teacher, while also constantly facing criticism from the school board for being unable to keep up. You could tell he was only there for the students, because his bosses treated him like shit.
Except he was also a big time trump supporter and ended up losing his job after (from what I heard) bringing a gun on a school trip.
Around the time the FBI quietly updated their security recommendations to include recommending adblocking a couple of large local colleges in the very conservative area I live started pushing uBlock Origin to all of their computers. And if I were higher on the foodchain at my place of work I’d be pushing to enact a similar policy update
Thousands upon thousands of school children are currently using Chromebooks they get from their schools. Now they will be forced to look at ads.
I don’t want to be “that guy”, but the ads school-aged kids are viewing come from the apps they are using, not their web browsing on Chrome.
And they are even more heavily impacted when their favourite content creator hucks sponsored products, which can’t be blocked with an adblocker.
I feel like I’ve dodged a bullet by not being exposed to 99.9% of the ads out there, but that’s only because I don’t use toxic social media apps or YouTube in its designed form.
Maybe it depends on the school system, but my kid’s Chromebook was locked down, so they couldn’t really explore the full internet. Many sites are either white or blacklisted, so they were researching from a website designed to be used by students - not many ads, but yeah, going off script would get them into ad territory.
Still, they aren’t seeing the majority of ads from the few minutes they need to look up a research topic.
Chrome is used to get a tighter grip on the www and form it to Google's vision (one that is very anti consumer). If Chrome dies, it would be a net benefit for all.
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