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timesofisrael.com

HuddaBudda , to news in Israeli death toll passes 600, another 2,048 injured
@HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

This couldn't happen at a worse time.

The Israeli President, has been doing things a bit more draconian of late. To the point he was basically invalidating the supreme court of Israel.

Because they found shady dealings in his past.

The Air force Reservists of Israel basically walked off in protest.

That was three months ago.

Now I imagine the Israeli president will use this like a smoke screen, not only to criticize reservists, but also to hide his criminal intent.

This also helps Saudi Arabia and Syria, as they will be able to hide their military operations under the guise that they are only acting on a more active Israel.

This situation only helps the people in power. It does nothing for the civilians who are going to face the pushback from this. Or already have.

Akasazh ,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

I got sick when Bibi smugly, smilingly denounced this attack and declared war. Lacking any solemnity that a repugnant attack like this requires.

Couldn’t hide his glee.

Sad day for people of Israel and Palestine alike, this sets back any remote chance of progress for another lifetime.

NoneOfUrBusiness , to world in 'I am a Zionist,' says Biden at Hanukkah event, promises continued military assistance to Israel

Okay I understand he wants his legacy to be genocide Joe, but fucking read the room.

ShroOmeric , to world in Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7

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  • Hatsune_Miku ,
    @Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • Squizzy ,

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  • Hatsune_Miku ,
    @Hatsune_Miku@lemmy.world avatar

    wuh? they specifically mention the hospital, ha

    Squizzy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • Thief_of_Crows ,

    A statement by the IDF is not proof. If your source is simply quoting the people you are trying to provide a source for, that is not a source.

    Headline: IDF claims x. You: here’s a source, this website independently verified that the IDF did in fact say X.

    You see the issue here, right?

    cman6 ,

    The third link is to an Amnesty article from 2015

    Corkyskog ,

    The third link for me is a pay walled NY Times article from 2008…

    palal ,

    Hey, that sounds like an antisemitic statement. Calling out a Zionist for their lies? Clear antisemitism.

    PopcornTin ,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • Zeroxxx ,
    @Zeroxxx@lemmy.my.id avatar

    Yea, I will wait till islamicjihad.com, mujahideen.net and taliban.org release their articles!

    foggianism ,

    The IDF’s lying track record is bad.

    Squizzy ,

    If only impartial middle ground existed.

    Zeroxxx ,
    @Zeroxxx@lemmy.my.id avatar

    Which one? Name them 😌

    Squizzy ,

    Maybe time of Israel and Hamas Daily Journal aren’t where you should go for impartiality during a conflict between Israel and Hamas.

    Zeroxxx , (edited )
    @Zeroxxx@lemmy.my.id avatar

    Name them. 👻 All barking no a single name

    Edit: confirmed, this sub only has fools lurking. No knowledge all barking.

    MaxVoltage ,
    @MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

    Peoples World and CGTN

    Zeroxxx ,
    @Zeroxxx@lemmy.my.id avatar

    LOL

    LEDZeppelin , to news in Far-right minister: Nuking Gaza is an option, population should ‘go to Ireland or deserts’

    Are we the baddies?

    SaltySalamander ,
    @SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

    If you're from Israel and you support what your country is doing in Gaza, oh yea, you're 100% the bad guy.

    athos77 , to news in Far-right minister: Nuking Gaza is an option, population should ‘go to Ireland or deserts’

    Serious question: what does Israel have against Ireland? Here they're saying that Hamas should go there, and earlier today there was a different article saying that Israel wasn't letting Irish nationals evacuate Gaza right now.

    squiblet ,
    @squiblet@kbin.social avatar

    Ireland has a history of suggesting Israel chills out a bit.

    OctopusKurwa ,

    We recognise tyranny when we see it and have a lot solidarity with people living under an oppressive regime that hates them.

    HubertManne ,

    was wondering the same. looks like a few folk sorta explain it.

    stella , to world in Hamas tried to send fighters to Egypt in ambulances for wounded Gazans — US official

    Forgive me if I don’t take everything the US says on the matter at face value.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    It was a joint verification with Egypt

    cyd , to world in PLO official say Israeli efforts to evacuate civilians from Gaza a war crime

    The Palestinians are paranoid about such Israeli efforts for good reasons. In the past, after civilians are “evacuated”, they’re not allowed to return and the land is taken by Israel.

    TropicalDingdong , to worldnews in US tells Israel it need not close bank accounts of sanctioned settlers

    Man Biden just really doesn’t fucking want to win this election does he?

    Is he hoping the whole Palestine thing will blow over if the Palestinians are all, you know, are dead?

    Like we can’t afford and won’t survive Trump again. He needs to get his shit together on this.

    Corkyskog ,

    Old men make bad weathermen.

    You would think life experience would make them better at reading the clouds, but it seems to just further implant them in their ingrained beliefs, probably because they are usually surrounded by peers of the same age. Biden is lucky he was forced to work with some of his youngers, otherwise he would be blundering through this worse than he is.

    Omega_Haxors ,

    When both sides support genocide I don’t think it deserves to survive.

    Deceptichum , to world in Senior IDF officer censured over demolition of Gaza university without approval
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I have it on good authority that there are Hamas tunnels under the Knesset.

    wurzelgummidge , to world in Netanyahu: Let me be clear — Israel has no intention of displacing Gaza’s population

    He just wants to kill them all

    victorz ,

    Yeah but let me be clear — not displace!

    MataVatnik , to world in 42 survivors of the Nova rave massacre sue defense establishment for negligence
    @MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

    From the moment I learned about the rave being attacked I thought it was insane that they were holding a party of that kind that close to Gaza. It’d be like holding burning man a few miles from occupied Kharkiv in Ukraine. Sure, it would most likely be safe, but who the fuck would think it’s a good idea?

    chunkystyles ,

    I think the average Israeli doesn’t know the reality of what is across the border, literally hundreds of feet from them.

    CarrotBottom ,

    I went to Israel for a few days and was keen to go to Bethlehem. The Israelis I bet were terrified of the idea, and thought I’d be killed if I went. (I didn’t go).

    They seemed to be quite cognisant of the danger.

    chitak166 ,

    Bullshit. They’re all forced to join the military.

    jonne ,

    I’m pretty sure it’s just part of the strategy of piecemeal grabbing of territory. First you start using the buffer zone as an actual buffer zone, then you start gradually allowing more and more use of the space until you’ve got basically a whole city right next to the border. Then you inevitably get a new ‘security incident’, which warrants the establishment of a new buffer zone, which is carved out of more previous Palestinian territory.

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod , to world in White House: Biden has not seen or independently confirmed Hamas beheaded Israeli children
    @Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

    And yet the New York Post had it as their main headline yesterday.

    “A lie can get around the world before the truth has got its boots on.”

    marx2k ,

    But also…

    … the new York post…

    AstridWipenaugh , to world in Hamas refuses to provide info on wellbeing of hostages as Cairo talks commence

    When is Israel going to release the thousands of Palestinian hostages they have in “administrative detention” that have not been accused of any crimes? hrw.org/…/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinia…

    Rapidcreek OP ,

    The international Red Cross can visit Israeli prisoners to determine their well being. The same can not be said for hostages Hamas is holding.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Is that so? Why are Palestinian prisoners being raped by the IDF then?

    Rapidcreek OP ,

    Why won’t Hamas let the Red Cross see the Hostages?

    AstridWipenaugh ,

    The side that’s a recognized country with their own standing military and also the backing of the largest military in the universe while holding hostages 200:1 gets to answer first.

    nac82 ,

    Originally it was Israel preventing the red cross from entering the region.

    When did they change their stance?

    Rapidcreek OP ,

    The Red Cross participated in the last two hostage releases.

    wurzelgummidge ,

    Because Israel won’t let any one in

    Rapidcreek OP ,

    Nonsense. The Israelis have worked with the Red Cross on hostage release in the past. They are an intermediary in the process, a role the Red Cross has taken since WWI. And, Hamas is the first to refuse their reviewing hostages and prisoners.

    givesomefucks , to world in Netanyahu tells UN envoys UNRWA is totally infiltrated by Hamas, must be replaced PM says a humanitarian agency is needed in Gaza, but UNRWA cant play role, after employees accused of involved in oct7

    Why Israel doesn’t like the UNRWA:

    UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) was established in 1949 by a U.N. General Assembly resolution, following the war surrounding the founding of Israel, when 700,000 Palestinians fled or were driven from their homes.

    Today it directly employs 30,000 Palestinians, serving the civic and humanitarian needs of 5.9 million descendants of those refugees, in the Gaza Strip, West Bank and in vast camps in neighbouring Arab countries. In Gaza, it employs 13,000 people, running the enclave’s schools, its primary healthcare clinics and other social services, as well as distributing humanitarian aid. Its services in Gaza have increased in importance since 2005, when Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade causing an economic collapse with one of the highest unemployment rates in the world.

    reuters.com/…/what-is-unrwa-un-palestinian-refuge…

    It was created to deal with the fallout from Israel’s first ethnic cleansing, and since Israel hasn’t stopped, it’s still around.

    And right now would be a terrible time to get rid of it.

    chitak166 , to world in 'I am a Zionist,' says Biden at Hanukkah event, promises continued military assistance to Israel

    Guess I’m voting 3rd party next election.

    CyanFen ,

    Voting 3rd party is voting for Trump.

    chitak166 ,

    The greatest support Trump could ever receive in 2024 are democrats running Biden.

    But yeah, if Biden loses it will be the fault of progressives who didn’t fall in line, not the establishment for running awful candidates.

    History continues to repeat itself. It’s always Progressive’s fault, never Democrats. Even when checks notes, Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump. Nobody blamed the moderates for nominating her. They all blamed the Progressives for not ‘falling in line.’

    Were… were the moderates not going to fall in line behind Bernie? Hmm. Hopefully you can start to see what a crapshoot this all is and how you’re doing your part perpetuating it.

    I’ll vote for democrats when they run candidates that represent me and the moderates can just ‘fall in line’ because they’re so afraid of republicans.

    VubDapple ,

    In the two party American system its a choice between two devils. Right no thats looking like Biden vs Trump. Not choosing one of these devils is a vote for the devil you preferred even less. Its a shitty system sure but for now its what we have. Are these two devils really equally bad from your perspective?

    LinkOpensChest_wav ,
    @LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

    I’d say from the perspective of a Palestinian in Gaza or the perspective of a refugee in a concentration camp, yes.

    chitak166 , (edited )

    The lesser evil is still evil.

    If people supporting the lesser evil don’t want to end up with the greater evil, then they should run candidates who are good. Trump won the presidency because people nominated one of the worst candidates in history over someone who was legitimately a good option.

    This isn’t that difficult. We don’t solve these problems because we don’t want to.

    You can keep doing your part to perpetuate a system that caused George Washington to never speak to Thomas Jefferson again, but I’m done.

    If you have a problem with me, tell everyone who supports the lesser-evil it’s their fault. As soon as they start supporting someone good, I will join them.

    If they cannot do that, then that is a tacit admission that they would prefer to not have my support.

    TrickDacy ,

    Wrong

    Jaytreeman ,

    Come on. Use your words.

    TrickDacy ,

    History already did that. Others in this thread did too. Not wasting any more of my time with bad faith arguers

    PugJesus ,
    @PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

    "Well, maybe the Democrats should have run good candidates if they wanted my vote!" - voter watching minorities herded into camps.

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    When even the lesser of two evils is complicity in ethnic cleansing and genocide, then I think I’ll opt to vote for someone not evil instead.

    TrickDacy ,

    It worked in 2016 too!

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    I voted for Clinton in 2016 as the lesser of two evils. She lost. Maybe the Democratic party should listen when voters are telling them their candidate is shit.

    TrickDacy , (edited )

    You honestly think that 4% of voters will convince anyone of anything? Surely you have historical precedent for holding such a belief?

    Edit: interesting, I’ll take the downvote as an indication you have zero argument whatsoever besides naive PrInCiPlEs

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    I don’t need a historical precedent. This is a democracy. The votes are not owed. The votes must be won. If 4% is the number who are telling you something and you can’t win without that 4%, it might behoove you to pay attention to what they’re telling you.

    I didn’t downvote you. It’s almost like other people exist in the comment section and can vote.

    TrickDacy ,

    Naive PrInCiPlEs it is indeed. They will certainly work out for you because they have before. /s

    Oh sorry I almost forgot, history is irrelevant when it comes time to make decisions

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    Sure. I’ll take my naive principles, you can have fun endorsing genocide. You can cry about the downvote this time.

    TrickDacy ,

    I don’t give a fuck about downvotes. I care about people taking negative action toward society, convinced it’s the right thing to do, with zero argument. Enjoy your trump vote

    VubDapple ,

    Do what you need to do of course, but know it will backfire. If enough idealistic people like you refuse to vote for the Democrat then we are at risk of losing what democracy we have had for a much worse system. Remember, Trump was happy to put kids in cages.

    Promethiel ,
    @Promethiel@lemmy.world avatar

    The greater of the evils would happily seek to make me go round out my trans friends and kill them, then later seek to get my white friends to round me up and kill me after that’s done. I’m really happy you feel you have the luxury of moral superiority, but that doesn’t matter here at the endgame.

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    The lesser of two evils is currently arming, funding, giving military planning and operational guidance to, and vetoing UN resolutions for an apartheid state that has bombed thousands of women and children in the last two months. A state that has 2+ million people living in a squalid hellhole somewhere between a ghetto and a concentration camp. Where the majority of people are now displaced, lack food, and clean water. Where there are likely still thousands of bodies decaying under rubble all paid for with our tax dollars.

    Worst case scenario I’ll end up in a mass grave here too. But I’m not going to actively vote for it to happen to someone else so that it won’t hypothetically maybe happen to me.

    Promethiel ,
    @Promethiel@lemmy.world avatar

    As I said, I am happy for your comfortable position (mental or otherwise) to be so noble. I can’t help change the world if I’m dead or in work camp, and honestly helping the marginalized in my community already takes all the effective energy I can muster. I guess since I can not hold all of the world’s sins at hand, I must defer to you and grab a shovel?

    Bonskreeskreeskree ,

    Dems and repubs will never change the laws to weaken their power and strengthen 3rd parties. Full stop. Waiting for it to happen is foolish. Abandon the evil.

    EmoBean ,

    It’s not even douche vs turd sandwich at this point. It’s a dead horse vs the biggest traitor to the US in modern history. It’s a single vote system. Both sides think this and somehow one actually believes the only possible vote is for the felon. Everything is broken and I’m not going to perpetuate it. I wish I could illegally immigrate to northern Europe and get free everything. Too bad I’m a highly educated US citizen which means I need a matching high skilled job, several years, and a couple hundred thousand euros.

    RGB3x3 ,

    Look, this is the system we have and it sucks, but the choices are “weak candidate” vs “evil candidate that is likely going to try to destroy our democracy.”

    Voting third party means voting for the second guy, which is going to make our shit system even worse.

    chitak166 ,

    We’re just going to have to agree to disagree.

    Neon ,

    no we’re not. You’re both right. You’re right that you are absolutely allowed to not vote for someone if you don’t feel like that Person is representing you.

    But just know that by not Voting for Biden, you are making it easier for Trump to win. This is just the way the System works. There is no Opinion to be had about this, this is just Fact.

    paradiso ,

    Maybe instead of focusing all of our voting power on the presidential elections, we should all be more engaged with our local elections.

    chitak166 , (edited )

    I 100% acknowledge and accept that.

    My distinction is that the blame should be put on those voting for the ‘lesser-evil’ to maintain a negative peace instead of those fighting for a greater good.

    Blame everyone who voted for, checks notes, Hillary fucking Clinton to guarantee a Trump presidency just so Bernie couldn’t fuck the ruling class.

    It’s their fault, not ours.

    The lesser evil is still evil. Good people aren’t bad for not going along with it.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Well spoken. A vote for Biden is a vote for Genocide.

    chitak166 ,

    Unfortunately, a vote for Trump is too.

    It’s just. The lesser-genocide is still genocide.

    What path do we have to break this cycle other than to abandon it?

    agitatedpotato , (edited )

    When the lesser of two evils becomes lesser of two genocides we can either accept this is a stupid strategy that does not and has not worked across decades, or double down and accept everything that comes because of the strategy, like Trump.

    We are civilians, we do not get to change the system, we don’t even get to recall our federal reps after the election. We can vote once every year or so and that’s it. Either keep doing what got us here or try something new but your power ends at the ballot unless you have the time and money to basically stalk politicians.

    There will never be a good time to abandon lesser evilism, and there will always be an evil that could win. In fact by nature of lesser evils, the winner must be evil. The best time to break away is whenever you can convince yourself to do so. For many people genocide is a hard line and they are realizing this. It’s hard to fault someone for trying something new when the old way bore genocidal fruit.

    thoro ,

    Hey. Can I ask if you live in a swing state?

    If not, then all these people are moralizing toward you for no reason.

    chitak166 ,

    I live right next to a swing state.

    Personally, I’m all for democrats moving from states like Texas to states like Arkansas. I think ~2m people voted for Biden in the 2020 election.

    The population of Arkansas is ~3m, to put things into perspective.

    agitatedpotato ,

    There are multiple states and territories for which the margin of victory for presidential elections has never been so slim that their state flipping would have ever effected the race. Its hilarious watching centerests get mad when something like less than 20% of the country has any material leverage on how it shakes out.

    Bonskreeskreeskree ,

    Bernie would have challenged the billionaire classes power and hoarding of wealth. The democrats knew he was a slam dunk against trump, but chose to risk losing the election in favor of protecting the status quo.

    chitak166 ,

    I totally agree.

    This is the problem with American politics.

    The lesser evil is still evil, yet good people want to convince themselves otherwise.

    It’s all about avoiding conflict and maintaining a negative peace. Dr. King had a lot to say on it.

    Fuck the moderate white.

    voidMainVoid ,

    Fuck the moderate white.

    Especially since it’s a lie that they’re moderate. If you’re taking a global view, they’re actually right-wing. The moderate, centrist positions are what Bernie was advocating. The Overton Window in US politics has moved so far to the right it’s ridiculous.

    TrickDacy ,

    If you vote 3rd party, it is absolutely a vote for trump. The reason this is said over and over is because history has born it out as 100% how it works. Stick your fucking head in the sand and be smug and self righteous all you want. Reality will remain intact

    chitak166 ,

    Okay.

    BrianTheeBiscuiteer ,

    Nah, it’s cool it’s cool. The election after this one will be a vote for Trump, because he’ll be the only one on the ballot.

    eskimofry ,

    Then the U.S should stop fucking around

    voidMainVoid ,

    No, voting for Trump is voting for Trump. Blaming alternative parties for Trump splits the left.

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