These electric motors, you are winding the coils yourself from a FOSS design? And the batteries to drive them, we going with voltaic piles, or a lithium refinery?
Yep. Have to travel a bit for the lithium, but it’s worth it to be free from the enshittification of daily life. Mining and smelting the copper myself too.
While I like driving. I hate all the shit modern car manufacturers put in modern cars. Sure they’re more efficient on fuel than older ones. But we should be able to have that without needing the car to be tracked and data collected, we have in the past.
I feel like all these driver aids are also making people worse at driving. They need to do less, so they pay attention less.
On top of that, can we ban touchscreens in cars? Physical buttons give physical feed back, you can feel for the button you want and press it without taking your eyes off the road. A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away. It’s somewhat mitigated when they put buttons on the steering wheel, but not all buttons can fit in that spot.
Sure some cars have google assistant, Siri or Alexa. But I actually get so frustrated when trying to tell my phone to navigate somewhere or just simply change the song. And that’s just the phone! The amount of times I have to pull over because it glitches out, or just fails to interpret some or all of what I’ve just said (sure it’s better than voice assistants used to be, but it still breaks regularly) is still too high. The amount of times I regularly tell it to do something, only to find it was still processing the activation voice command, and therefore was initialising the VA screen, and not listening to a word I said after the initial activation is infuriating.
I love technology, but the technology has no place in cars if it detracts or distracts from the act and safety of actually driving the car.
On top of that, can we ban touchscreens in cars? Physical buttons give physical feed back, you can feel for the button you want and press it without taking your eyes off the road. A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away. It’s somewhat mitigated when they put buttons on the steering wheel, but not all buttons can fit in that spot.
Android Auto has a good interface for integrating its functions into a car touchscreen, but it’s not controlling anything “important”.
I agree that all the traditional car controls should be actual knobs and buttons. I rented a car once and they gave me a Tesla, and I couldn’t stand how all the controls were behind its touchscreen. I never felt the need to buy a Tesla, but that one experience turned me off from them entirely.
Nah, I don’t have the budget for that, and here in Australia even an NB MX5 is over 10K- I’m actually currently looking at a 08’ fiesta XR4 (in other parts of the world that’s the 2L fiesta ST)
I know what you’re saying. My '23 Audi a3 has all the things you would want to buttons instead of touch screen only.
I have huge gripes with bad infotainment systems, only reason I bought this new car was because I have no issues with it. I’m coming from old American cars. All the benefits of physical buttons with tactile feedback while being way more fun to drive.
I agree. Let’s cut the middle man and force 100% automated driving. People can fuck in the back then with less likely to die than with humans with stupid cars without assistance driver aids. Driving is extremely dangerous and honestly I trust ai over other people (in USA).
Nah, I don’t know if AI will ever be 100% perfect, and I don’t want to trust it fully. Ai is human built, and it’s my personal belief that humans aren’t perfect, so AI will therefore never be perfect.
Also, you will always want a qualified driver to be able to take over should some part of the car sensor systems fail.
Sensors, unlike humans have a tendency to fail quickly, sometimes instantly, and even AI and autopilot can behave erratically if it gets bad or false inputs from bad sensors.
It’s like in a airliner, autopilot even though at this point is pretty much practically capable of flying a plane completely from takeoff to landing, there will always be at least pilots on duty in the cockpit in order to account for unforseen circumstances and failures, even if they never actually fly the plane normally.
Even if we somehow manage to create a sentient AI, it will still have to rely on the information it receives from various sensors in the car. If those sensors fail, and it doesn’t have the information it needs to do the job, it could still make a mistake due to a lack of, or completely incorrect data, or if it manages to realise the data is erroneous it still could flatly refuse to work. I’d rather keep people in the loop as a final failsafe just in case that should ever happen.
I see your point on this but when should an sentient AI be able to decide for itself? What makes it different from a human by this point? Human, us rely on sensors too to react to the world. We make mistakes also, even dangerous one. I guess we just want to make sure this sentient AI is not working against us?
That’s why it’s layers of security. Humans have a natural instinct - usually we can tell if our eyesight is getting worse. And any mistake we make is most likely due to us not noticing something or reacting in time, something that the AI should be able to compensate for.
The only time where this is not true when we have a medical episode, like a grand Mal or something. But everyone knows safety is always relative. And we mitigate that by redundancies. Sensors will have redundancies, and we ourselves are also an additional redundancy. Heck we could also put in sensors for the occupants to monitor their vitals. There is once again a question of privacy, but really that’s all we should need to protect against that.
A sentient AI, not counting any potential issues with its own sentience, would have issues with sudden failed or poorly maintained sensors. Usually when a sensor fails, it either zeros out, maxes out, or starts outputting completely erratic results.
If any of these results look the same as normal results, they can be hard for the AI to tell. We can reconcile those sensors with our own human senses and tell if they failed. A car only has its sensors to know what it needs to know, so if it fails, will it be able to know? Sure sensor redundancy helps, but there is still that minor chance that all the redundant sensors fail in a way that the AI cannot tell, and in that case the driver should be there to take over.
Again I will refer to the system of an aircraft, as even if it’s a 1 in a billion chance there have been a few instances where this has happened and the autpilot nearly pitched the plane into the ground or ocean, and the plane was only saved due to the pilots takeover - in one of those cases it was due to a faulty sensor reporting that the angle of attack was too steeply pitched up, so the stick pusher mechanism tried to pitch the nose down, to save the plane, when infact it already was down. An autopilot, even an AI one will have no choice to trust its sensors as that’s the only mechanism it has.
When it come to a faulty redundant sensor, the AI also has to work out which sensor to trust, and if it picks the wrong one, well you’re fucked. It might not be able to work out which sensor is more trustworthy…
We keep ourselves safe with layered safety mechanisms and redundancy, including ourselves. So if anyone fails, the other can hopefully catch the failure.
AI doesn’t need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than your average human driver. Which, you know isn’t a very high bar…
Comparing to an airplane pilot isn’t the same, a pilot goes through years of training to be able to fly passengers (Well beyond a dinky Cessna or whatever anyways) and you need years of experience on top before you are even considered by the big airlines
A human driver can get a license in as little as a few days
A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away
That’s the reason why I don’t like listening to music on smart phones. Want to skip a track? Fish the phone out of your pocket, turn the screen back on, find the skip button, tap it, wait a second until the garbage app acknowledges that you’ve pressed it, turn off screen, put it back.
While on my 2000’s phone it’s just pressing one of the physical buttons.
Want to skip a track? Fish the phone out of your pocket, turn the screen back on, find the skip button, tap it, wait a second until the garbage app acknowledges that you’ve pressed it, turn off screen, put it back.
I had a HTC Touch Pro smartphone 15 years ago, and it had an optional headphone cable with buttons on it. You could use the buttons for pause/play, next track, and previous track, without having to get the phone out of your pocket.
I never really saw something like that again for wired headphones. I did sometimes see headphones with buttons on the headphones themselves, but often they just have play/pause.
To ensure that the update process finishes without interruption due to weak battery - if that happens it can brick your car. Tbf you can also just connect the battery to a power source and keep the engine off. Depending on update and car updates that take a few hours are not unheard of
This is such extremely poor engineering that it throws me into a rage. There is nothing to prevent them from installing the update in the background progressively while driving and then just switching to the new version in one swift atomic operation (like changing the name of a directory) when it’s ready
We both know that this will never happen. For the same reason why you can get a 300k$ car, and have an infotainment system that runs at 3fps. They don’t have any incentive to make it run better
It’s a mix of piece coat optimization and a lot of creep in what used to be a pretty lightweight process throwing it into the ditch.
The things that run software in cars largely fall into one of two camps: MCUs and SOCs. Think Arduinos and Raspberry PIs. Background programming, with an active and inactive partition, is absolutely possible on a SOC. They’re even file based, so you can do all kinds of clever things. Cars tend to not have many SOCs, so it’s not a monumental task to pitch having them each coat a little bit more for extra storage/processing. The biggest hurdles here are automotive grade and the very long development cycles. These both mean that the hardware is 3+ years old when it launches.
MCUs tend to have monolithic software builds (think literally everything gets compiled into a single .exe). There are a million billion of these things in a typical vehicle from most automotive OEMs. It’s… very hard to make them all have more capacity because you would take that cost and multiply it by 40 or so to get all the MCUs on a vehicle ‘upgraded’ for extra capacity.
If this all sounds a little crazy, it is. From two angles. First: do we really need as much software control in cars as we do? Marketing departments seem to think so. Second: the reason why there are so many small compute units in a car is the slow migration from mechanically controlled components to electrically controlled on. Back in the 80s the majory of automatic transmissions shifted based on a very complex mechanical system (look up a transmission valve body if you’re curious). Moving that to electronic control meant adding a computer to control that functional. Now take this and multiply it and you’ll kind of see the wreck in motion. Most OEMs are moving toward more centralized compute (fewer, larger, and smarter control units), but new electrical architectures take a lot of time/effort so it’s slow going.
I’m pretty sure that what’s being updated here is just the software for the infotainment display, which is likely a pretty powerful SOC that has nothing to do with any components that are necessary for driving the car.
There’s two major things limiting them actually. Bad software developers and using the barest possible minimum on processors and RAM to run the systems.
While the need for cars is cancerous I wouldnt blame it on the tech, cars are fun. The problem is lots of companies realized they could make lots of money and fucked us over starting about a hundred years ago, atleast here in the US.
27gb of files on an external HDD plugged into the USB port; Due to the slowness of an external HDD, all my 32gb+ flash drives are being used and don’t care about the wait time if I don’t need to sit there and babysit it. My car is never connected to WiFi. Not worried about collected data.
I love my EV. There are still reasons to have an ICE car (not knowing what OP has, but generally speaking) and frankly, comments like yours are not going to convert anyone
Got a 2023 Outback in February. The processing power is nowhere near what it needs to run smoothly. Once the car is started it is best to just not touch any buttons for the first several seconds to let it catch up. It is like dropping back two phone generators and watching it struggle to keep up with a newer OS. The transmission must run off a processor two generations further back because the time difference between my big ape foot stomping on the loud pedal and anything meaningful happening is measured in countable seconds.
My Buick had the same delay with the transmission. It took a lot of getting used to, and was one reason I went with a high performance car afterwards. I’m super happy with her Kia K5 now.
The transmission must run off a processor two generations further back because the time difference between my big ape foot stomping on the loud pedal and anything meaningful happening is measured in countable seconds.
Does your Subaru have a CVT? It’s a belt drive transmission and when I had an (older) Subaru it was one of the first CVT units, and felt a bit laggy when you asked it to do anything with alacrity.
Yep, my first. I was expecting the lag of the CVT and can feel it engage. There is a noticeable lag between the pedal being moved to one spot and the CVT beginning to work. So it is GoFaster = (TransmissioncComputeTime + CVTEngage) when each is about one full second. Two seconds sounds and feels unsafe when coming from a 2004 WRX.
They are notoriously bad. And they don’t get fixed. Got my Subaru and
The radio defaults to SiriusXM every time I turn on the car, even though I do not pay for it and do not want to.
Android Auto and Apple Car Play would cut out regularly
Eventually the entire system would just randomly crash and reboot frequently throughout a trip.
Found out there was a TSB out on the radio for frequent issues, and had to get it warrantied.
Even with the new radio, I have occasional issues with Apple Car Play freezing
I can’t have both an android and iPhone connected at the same time, because I won’t be able to use Android Auto, I’m forced into Car Play
And on the new cars Subaru made the screen narrow and tall. This effectively reduced the amount of screen space for Android Auto/car play in comparison with prior years.
Add to that the entire display is now needed for HVAC, heated seats, etc and do you really want to depend on a glitchy computer that frequently crashes?
I can’t have both an android and iPhone connected at the same time, because I won’t be able to use Android Auto, I’m forced into Car Play
Just got a new work truck, a Ford, with android auto and car play. This morning was the first time I plugged an iPhone and android in at the same time. I had plugged in the android first and a quick look I wasn’t able to switch to the iPhone without unplugging the android. I never plugged the android back in so idk if it prefers one over the other or just whatever is plugged in first. Could that be the same issue?
Others have already responded to you with many of the same complaints I was going to bring up so I’ll just highlight a few things:
First off, I have a 2019 Subaru Impreza so not the latest generation
There used to be this issue where, upon turning the car on, you couldn’t interact with the infotainment system for a good 10 seconds which includes volume adjustments. Let’s say you had the volume set to 20 (max 35) when you last drove, well it’s going to be blaring as soon as you start up the car again, but you won’t be able to do anything about it for a good 10 seconds. Luckily this issue has gotten better (I believe with a firmware update from the dealership after I complained), but it’s still not fixed completely.
Recently I took my car in for work and they needed to keep it overnight, so they let me borrow a brand new 2024 Outback Touring. This was great cause I got to test a brand new car “for free,” and what I learned is that they now put all HVAC stuff (seat warming, climate control, etc.) on this screen that has poor touch sensitivity. It’s obnoxious. Also the system itself is only marginally better than my 5 year old car, which is to say it’s still incredibly clunky and slow. They’ve made improvements, no doubt, but it’s built from the same trash.
I’m still driving a 2016 Mazda, so sorry if this is a dumb question, but with these new cars are the infotainment systems integral with the car’s functioning?
I’ve always thought of the head units as replaceable but seems like they are more integrated nowadays. Especially with EVs
I’d be curious about what kinds of modifications people have been able to do with these. I imagine most people would want to avoid bricking their $50k car by pulling apart their dashboard and fucking with the internals, but someone somewhere has had to have been unhappy enough with the hardware/software on these things to make an attempt at switching it out, even if in part.
Owning something that expensive and not being able to modify it to the way I like (and cutting out the manufacturer from data harvesting/control over the system) is a personal kind of hell.
Ugh I hate rearview cameras. They’re nice for people who can’t turn due to limited mobility but I prefer to be facing the direction I’m going and do the “turn and put hand on the other head rest” move. It would be fine, but some car manufacturers have decided rear sightlines don’t matter at all now “because you have the camera” so they take that option from me and make reversing more dangerous.
I’ve got a 2013 Mazda 3 and it was very easy to replace the radio, but my understanding is that way more stuff goes through it in modern cars, especially if they have touchscreen controls for some things.
I have a Gen ?? Outback. It’s a nice 2002 and I just replaced the stock stereo with a new Bluetooth one so it’s dope. Running this thing until it dies.
Kinda true but I’m in love with my parents Dacia Lodgy of 2013. It’s cheap and does the job (moving me and from A to B) while maintaining very low fuel consumption.
This is so backwards from my ID.3. When I get an OTA update, we get a message and have to deliberately update it, but it wont start until we’re out of the car and it’s locked.
Oh man, i’ve never been able to get over the: “i really want to play a game now that i have 30 minutes to spare and some energy left” ah fuck, 60gb update…fine i’m off to bed then.
Can’t imagine what i would do if a car update would come with the worst possible timing like having to take your partner to the hospital for an emergency.
My Charger’s Irratainment system decided to update during traffic in Dallas rush hour (I don’t live there) and it took my navigation with me until I could regoogle my phone enough to use that.
I’m kind of surprised that car technology is so awful. How the fuck am I paying $35k for a car and they’re still like “lets run the UI off a potato via the least responsive touch screen possible”? At some point I’d rather they just gave up on providing a UX themselves and just ran everything through Android Auto.
I don’t mind having a UI for things like navigation or android auto. What gets me is why do things like climate control need to be buried in a UI? If my windscreen starts to steam up mid-jourmey, the last thing I need is to take my attention off the road to change the climate settings in the UI where dials and buttons will do the job much faster without needing to take my attention off the road.
Yes! I hate having everything in the UI. I’d much prefer a physical control set for A/C and even basic volume control at least.
You can’t sense a flat touch screen, but we are really good at sensing knobs and switches. It’s much safer for the driver to feel for a control rather than look at it.
My 09 VW CC has knobs for bass, treble, and mid, in addition to volume. Seat heaters, AC, everything is tactile and I can operate anything without looking.
I know it’s manufacturers wanting to save money, but it’s so annoying that we’re going backwards. Touchscreen is a form of input. Just because it’s higher tech doesn’t mean it should replace tactile inputs in all applications ffs.
If my windscreen starts to steam up mid-jourmey, the last thing I need is to take my attention off the road to change the climate settings in the UI where dials and buttons will do the job much faster without needing to take my attention off the road.
This is why ill never get rid of my 2009 Tacoma. Three knob AC controls are the pinnacle of UI engineering. One knob for fan speed, one for temp and the third for vent/airflow selection. The backlight on one of my knobs has burned out at this point, but i dont need it…Can adjust the AC without taking my eyes off the road.
When it was ubiquitous, this meant i could do this in any car. Borrowed my inlaws FORD F-150 once, had to pull over to figure out how to turn off the goddam heat. It had BOTH a touchscreen and series of dash buttons but there were so many it was hard to figure out what did each thing while driving. I also had to update their dang infotainment, it wouldnt work on some random USB device, i had to go get a USB-A 3.0 device to get it to work at all and even then it was idling in my driveway for an hour and a half. Even tried just doing it via WiFi…nope
Just FYI, it might be pretty easy to replace the back lights. You can even get LED ones. Word of warning though, if the bulbs are built such that the polarity can be reversed, they’ll only work in one orientation. This is due to the nature of how LEDs work. I had to redo mine because I didn’t win all 3 coin flips when I installed them
Yeah it’s not too bad. Just the dash kit is fairly old and held together by those plastic clip. I always break those things. It’s a juice isn’t worth the squeeze honestly. I actually upgraded my radio a while back to a wireless CarPlay/android auto and mean to ask them to swap em. But forgot.
Yeah, my 2017 KIA has a touch screen for controlling navigation, radio, android auto etc. but climate control is controlled with buttons and dials like you described. It’s modern enough to the point it feels safer than an older vehicle might, but I don’t think I want a vehicle more modern than this.
sorry to say this get yourself a classic car benefits : low tax, or none, low insurance, you can have good times fixing the car, it is not losing money every day, it makes money, carbon pollution on a car from 66, cars made with passion negatives, getting parts is becoming easy with 3D printing, engines are easy to fix, a bit more expensive to buy
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