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“Matt Healy undoubtedly just made it worse for queer Malaysians who actually live here, and have to face the consequences because we all know our politicians are gonna use this to further their agenda,” Carmen Rose, a Malaysian drag queen and performer, said on Twitter.
No, he didn’t make it worse. The government is making it worse
Because keeping a low profile is how they can manage to survive in a homophobic society. Everyone is grandstanding while living in liberal western societies, ignoring how hard things are for less fortunate people.
As if events like Stonewall never happened in the west. How did those western societies became liberal? Because people fought back, blood has been spilled to reach where those societies are now. Unfortunately keeping a low profile will not progress society and will keep the community at risk. Jews kept a low profile in Europe for centuries and then were exterminated.
Muslim is not a static or homogenous thing. The majority Muslim bit doesn’t need to change - the majority of Muslims need to become more understanding.
They aren’t but they are the majority if the religious population by such a considerable margin that whether Christians supported equality or not it would not matter.
There are about ten times as many Muslims as there are Christians in Malaysia so in this case it is the homophobia of the Islamic population that needs to change to make the culture shift.
EhList said Malaysia can never be decent for LGBTQI+ as long as they are majority Muslim. Why can a majority Christian Country have decent LGBTQI+ rights but not a Muslim one?
This is about Malaysia though. Indonesia doesn’t have sharia law except for one region, called Aceh. Homosexuality is not illegal in Indonesia though the LGBT do face intolerance from the state.
The west used to be all hardcore Christians and hated LGBT just as much as Muslims do today. Like homosexuality wasn’t legalized until 1967 in the UK. Before that time gay people, like Alan Turing, were chemically castrated. Change came because people stood up and fought for their rights and put their lives on the line. Not because everyone became atheist.
the rise in acceptance of LGBT rights is mirrored by less frequent church attendance in the USA. IIRC that was true fir the UK as well. In most societies the dominant religion is typically anti-LGBT.
Change takes time, decades, often centuries. You are asking a society that has norms similar to 100years ago in Europe to accelerate to where the West currently is. I dont think you understand how slow things improved for lgbtq in the West and how recent that change is.
Despite things not being perfect, lgbtq acceptance is 50%+ in most western countries. That means it usually isnt socially acceptable to go against lgbtq, neither for the people, nor for the politicians.
Now imagine a society whose people oppose lgbtq by 95%. Who is going to stick their neck out? Their neck will simply be chopped off. Change will take time. Slowly those lgbtq people will make lgbtq acceptable within their inner circle and then their inner circle will make lgbtq acceptable in a wider but small part of society(ie liberals) and that small part of society will slowly be able to make lgbtq acceptable as a societal norm by “converting” more and more people.
The structure does not exist in these societies for lgbtq people to fight for their rights. Their best hope is that their inner circle can accept them and they can live a normal life while keeping a low profile, they are still at stage 1.
Or to put it in a different perspective, what will happen to you if you go to a plaza in Pyongyang and demand democracy/human rights? Do you think that would be smart? Or productive? You will just get arrested and be sent to a prison camp. And it is even worse with lgbtq rights, because a lot of north koreans can get on board with democracy and human rights but in these societies, 95% of the people are actively against lgbtq.
PS I am not interested in debating about homosexuality in 1920s Germany or whatever because that is a niche that completely ignores actual societal historical facts.
True but they are still not at the pushing point. They are on “maybe i can get friends who accept me for who i am without anyone betraying my trust” stage. Once they can somewhat reliably do that, ie once there is a small part of non lgbtq allies, then with those allies they can start pushing.
10% is a when an idea is becoming mainstream and mass adoption is greatly accelerating.
“When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority,” said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. “Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame.”
It’s not like things are sunshines and roses for gay people in liberal western societies. Pride parades started in the US from a riot when they couldn’t take it anymore. The UK chemically castrated Alan Turing. Hiding is a good way for the individual to survive, but to forward progress for the group in the future, attention needs to be brought to these issues.
Attention is only beneficial when you have the correct political conditions to do it. Drawing attention at the wrong time gets you cracked down upon or worse, killed.
An absolutist position on this is how western liberals continually contribute to worsening matters for lgbt people in the global south. Stick to your fucking lane and let people from that country handle their local issues, they understand the local culture and the conditions better than you do.
As someone who lives in SE Asia, I agree. The west have no idea, they think they know it all, judging everybody from that ivory tower they call moral high ground.
It’s such a difficult topic. As an lgbt person I want the lgbt people in those countries leading the strategy to get change. Not a bunch of people that want to do regime change for the sake of US interests while weaponising marginalised peoples as a tool to create consent for it among the US home population.
All this does is make people in the global south see lgbt issues as a tool of US oppression. It actively harms efforts of local lgbt people in achieving the necessary cultural change in views because people see it as necessary to oppose it in order to protect their economic interests from becoming a US colony or vassal.
Alan Turing was castrated in the 1950s and has been posthumously pardoned at this point. The first pride parade in the US after Stonewall was in the 1970s.
Using examples half a century or more old as a comparison to what’s happening today is incredibly disengenuious.
Yes, stay hidden, try to curate and open up to your inner circle. They are still at step 1. They need to cultivate lgbtq acceptance slowly at this stage or they will be crashed.
Surprised Carmen Rose is able to tweet while licking authoritarian bigoted boots at the same time, impressive. They’d be stoked if Nazis came back I’m sure, they have some great boots.
Try reading the article. Homophobia is on the rise in Indonesia and bullshit performative activism is not going to positively impact that. Rose without question has a more informed perspective than a British “rockstar” douchebag who has done this performative shit in other nations and seen similar criticism.
As someone who was gay in the USA before it was safe to be out I get why Rose is concerned and Im flabbergasted at those who cannot see how incredibly fucking stupid Healy’s acts are.
Kinda odd that a US state official is talking about this in language implying it’s the US’s war? Removes the whole facade that this isn’t US+Ukraine vs Russia that everyone’s pretending isn’t happening.
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Poland won't, but according to Hitler in September 1st, 1939, Nazi Germany was defending itself from Polish attacks.
I think putin is thinking of forcing Belarus with Wagner to attack Poland and see how NATO will react when the threat would be war with Russia (if NATO will respond, which I hope it will, I think Belarus will get the same help as Armenia).
I think NATOs response would have to be a strong, decisive one. No NATO member wants the Alliance to look weak. Nobody wants World War III, either, but I think they’d conclude that showing weakness is riskier than calling Putin’s bluff.
Poland is a major supply hub and has lost plenty of boots on the ground. Art 5 isn’t automatic. US won’t risk nuking for expendables. All Europe is expendable.
Europe has nukes, and an industrial capacity that dwarfs Russia multiple times over and is roughly equal to the US.
Russia has about as much chance attacking Europe as Japan would attacking China on their own.
Also without Europe, the US has no capacity to develop semiconductors better than what Russia has. In the extremely unlikely event Europe falls to Russia, the US will not be far behind.
Russia has no interest in attacking Europe. US/NATO is the executive arm of longterm geopolitical interests that strive for total global dominance. They utilize sophisticated multipronged longterm strategies attempting to bring the rest of the planet under their control. Russia is a small part of that parcel.
The ultima ratio regum part of it considers some geographies more expendable than others. Egress of core industries from the EU is deliberate part of the strategy. Vassals are ruled by compradors, so populations are captive. It’s direct oligarch control on the other side, so it’s simpler.
MAD still applies. Both sides go to great lengths to avoid it, since the outcome is deterministic and global. Which is why the US would be a second target, if not already part of first strategic strike.
Wars are confusing places, so potential for fatal mistakes is exponentiated.
If you think you understand the conflict, you are not understanding the conflict. I have spent decades and lately far too much time on sources inaccessible to most, and I still feel underinformed.
I noticed I commented on world news. My mistake. Lemmy keeps dropping the subscribed filter.
Enlighten me, what are the attacks on Russians neighbours if not war? Please tell me how the Nato forced Russia to attack Georgia or Ukraine? Maybe you should question your “unaccessible to most” (lol) sources if your result is, that Russias not at fault here.
Europe does not have an industrial capacity that comes anywhere close to Russia as is clearly evidenced by the fact that Europe can’t even produce basic things like artillery shells at this point. Furthermore, European industrial capacity needs energy to function and the cost of that has gone up significantly. All of this is well documented in mainstream western media, so it’s kind of shocking that somebody could be this misinformed archive.ph/61ruk
Just read the first line of that article you linked below the title.
Defense contractors are under pressure to ramp up production but want long term government guarantees of sales
It’s not that the West has run out of artillery shells. It’s that the West’s MIC is not willing to ramp up production, since we are not at war, and there is no guarantee that additional manufacturing capacity will pay off for weapons manufacturers once the war ends and there is no need for it any longer.
The EU, particularly Germany has gone through a massive disarmament since the Cold War. It still spends twice as much on its military in absolute terms as Russia. If we are talking total industrial capacity, the EU has 8 times the GDP of Russia.
Just on artillery shells, the 5th biggest artillery force in the world just joined NATO. Do you expect their reserves to be empty?
Uh yeah welcome to capitalist economic relations. Companies aren’t going to build giant factories to pump out weapons and ammunition unless they make their money back. Given that EU is now going into a recession and the standard of living is dropping rapidly, gonna be hard to justify all the government subsidies needed to convince your capitalists to start manufacturing weapons.
Meanwhile, GDP overall doesn’t mean shit. It’s the industrial that actually matters. Most of EU GDP comes from ephemeral things like tourism and service industry. The only major industrial power left in EU is Germany, and it’s becoming rapidly deindustrailized as we speak.
Just on artillery shells, the 5th biggest artillery force in the world just joined NATO. Do you expect their reserves to be empty?
Yeah I do, because if they weren’t empty US wouldn’t be sending cluster munitions to Ukraine right now. US even forced South Korea to send them shells before that happened. NATO lacks industrial capacity to produce weapons at the rate they’re being expanded, and anybody who’s been paying attention can see it.
On the other hand, Russia inherited the military industrial complex from USSR days and unlike the west it never privatized or dismantled it. Now it’s been ramped up and to a capacity that NATO can only dream of.
She is a Roman Catholic and has used her religious identity in part to help build her national brand. In a 2019 speech to a rally in Rome, she said: "I am Giorgia. I’m a woman, I’m a mother, I’m Italian, I’m Christian.
Honestly we have been having such a hard time getting international acts to the country (we have religious radicals that ate strongly opposing these shows).
It was only recently with a tough government swap that things are starting to get better - things were starting to open up.
Less than half a year since things got better, this clown decided to run his mouth, insulting the government and fueling these religious radicals with more reasons shows should be banned.
Honestly, good fcking job, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. You fcked us all.
Two steps forward, one step back, so it’s a step forward, yet he “fucked you all”?
If one side is a bigoted regime and the other side is speaking out against them, and you’re against the side speaking out against them, what does that make you?
Because nothing can change religious fanatics, especially those in positions of power. The only way would be for other countries to take actions against the nations with such backwards governments (trade bans etc.) but seeing as Turkey and Hungary are allowed to stay in the EU I’m not hopeful this will ever happen.
Maybe listen to people from the actual country that understand the political conditions? They know what is useful and what is not in their current situation better than you do.
This isn’t a game where shouting for one side the loudest and most often magically wins, unlike americans like to believe. Doing so at the wrong time gets you cracked down upon, or worse it gets lgbt people killed.
People from the west go to these countries and make these statements completely oblivious to the fact that they’re harming the local efforts of lgbt activists within the country who are acting more strategically with a better understanding of what will and will not advance their position in the current climate they have.
Depends on whether they’ve got something else to distract them really same as always. Could go either way. Anything involving their money could take away their focus.
People from the west don’t understand how much more different bringing progressive thought to SEA is. Nobody here really cares about listening to the people who are actually affected. You can’t burst in with freedom flags. We don’t have that kind of freedom of speech. Don’t provoke them into taking my freedom away.
Here’s hoping the gov forgets this and moves on instead of putting down any dangerous laws.
I wanted to reply to you but the thread is hidden. I just wanted to say that I had hopes that the smaller audience could detect nuance but clearly Lemmy people are as arrogant as Reddit.
Thanks 1975 for bringing to light that Malaysia should be ashamed about being backwards. But a lot of people will suddenly feel they need to vote Malay-first parties when they didn’t before, because politics literally forgot LGBTQ+ exists. Malays-first parties is like Whites-first groups, to you who look at us like we’re minority creatures squabbling over words.
I hope the government continues eating nasi lemak and sleeping during parliament. Their laziness will be very useful here. Although it would be nice if one of them says something like “People are people”. 1 Malaysia should include LGBTQ+. Here’s hoping, anyway.
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