Ok, hear me out. Linux is not an easy platform to develop for because it’s in constant flux where systems and libraries come, change and go constantly. Linux itself is a somewhat slippery concept (if we expand from the kernel) where “works on linux” can really mean it’s been tested on one particular distro. Debian stable and rolling releases are not the same. Unless I am completely mistaken, I can see why major developers are hesitant to support linux, whatever it even is. Is Android linux?
Now, I’m all for this message. Given how OSs have been developing, I advocate for linux adoption and wish people would “vote with their wallet”. Otherwise things just will not change. Well, not for better, if recent history is anything to go by. I just feel that this problem has more prongs than we like to admit, being linux enthusiasts.
Not really the case anymore because of proton, game devs develop for Windows and proton and then it’ll run on anything that can run proton, Linux, android, Mac or otherwise in the future
From what I hear thanks to proton it’s incredibly easy to develop for Linux, as long as you don’t use one of the anticheats that doesn’t support it or intentionally prevent it from running in proton you’re fine
Well, yeah, but I think the issue is that the best way to develop for linux is to make a Windows binary. I don’t like that. Developers actively sabotaging Wine/Proton compatibility is kind of malicious though.
I don’t think the best way to develop for Linux is by making a windows binary, I think the best way for game developers to make a Linux version of a game they otherwise wouldn’t is by making a windows binary compatible with proton
Problem is very few developers actively choose to make a Linux game and windows games if done right run at native speeds on Linux anyway.
I’m gonna be unpopular for saying this but it’s the same thing as using HTML for desktop/mobile apps, sure it’s not optimal performance wise but it’s a hell of a lot better than often nothing at all because companies can’t or won’t justify development time to support smaller groups of people on smaller platforms
If such a time comes that desktop Linux has a large enough market share for large companies to take seriously then I’m sure they’ll start developing native versions of maybe even make Linux-first games but sadly we’re nowhere near that point yet so best we can hope for is good cross compatibility tools
I think the issue is that the best way to develop for linux is to make a Windows binary
If it works, it works. Stop those bureaucratic inquisitions like “Stack Overflow says it’s not best practice” “Code review is not optional” “It’s gonna crash production” yada yada
As a big Linux fan, it makes me said that Wine needs to exist. But, maybe it’s not such a bad thing. Linux is just a kernel, with no associated libraries for app developers. App devs don’t want to manually write system calls, so it’s always been the case thar they lick and choose which set of libraries to target for their Linux apps. A popular low level choice is the GNU standard C library, and a popular high level choice is the GTK/GDK/Gnome stack. But these aren’t the only choices. I mean you can use the MUSL standard C library if you want. You can choose between OpenGL, Vulkan, and WGPU for graphics already.
I see Wine and Proton as just being another set of standard apis to target. Maybe they don’t have the best design, but is traditional Unix really the best design either? Now the Valve and company are supporting Wine, it’s one of the Linux targets with the most actual developers. And of course it has a huge advantage over the glibc + Vulkan stuff: it retains binary compatibility forever.
Yes, Wine and Proton are great and they do actually solve a lot of issues with linux gaming. I don’t exactly begrudge anyone for choosing to go that route because linux is complicated. But I do wish we’d talk more about native linux gaming and didn’t always default to Proton. Valve has done wonders for gaming on linux, but I am not fan of Steam and their DRM policies.
I really appreciate programs like Bottles these days. Back in 2006 or so I beat Deus Ex on Wine and setting it up was a hassle. Today I’m amazed it was even possible back then.
I totally agree. The real problem for Linux gaming tho is that games are almost always distributed as compuled binaries, but Linux is built around open source. It you had a model where you paid for the source code of a game, and then it got compiled for your machine right when you downloaded, Linux gaming would probably work great. You’d have better fps too. (I actually really like this idea, somebody like GOG should make a client that does this).
But why? What libraries are causing problems? Zlib? SDL? Actually SDL better kept dynamically linked because SDL sometimes adds support for new interfaces(wayland, egl).
I’d think so, too. But afaik windows people don’t do so much dynamic linking anyways. Most of the times it’s Linux executables that are few megabytes in size and most windows executables are at least tens of megabytes because people prefer statically link things in that world.
Nobody stops you doing the same thing with linux executables.
Why? He is happy with his operational system. He do not need to pay 100 bucks for a questionable OS . Linux had overcome MacOs as number of users on steam. It is his right to complain. Go sell in windows store if you want be windows exclusive.
Steam VR works fine, but you need a headset that supports Steam VR without needing other software. The main options are the HTC Vive and the Valve Index.
Good point! I was aware of ALVR, specifically that it supported the Quest, but I wasn’t sure how stable it was. I didn’t know it supported those other headsets, that’s cool!
Still… There are anticheats that allow Linux, like EAC, Hyperion and many others… If they choose one that does not allow Linux, or choose one that allow Linux but block it, it’s a dev issue
Virtually no anticheat worked on Linux just a few years ago except maybe Valve and Blizzard in-house solutions. Games that are out and already committed to a specific anticheat can’t do much but to wait, so it is not really on them. Changing the anticheat solution mid-way on a released game would piss off so many people you can’t imagine. On a brand new game though, I would agree that this should be considered.
Indeed. What sucks is that it is off by default, I figure most small-time devs simply need to be told it exists. I definitely wouldn’t excuse the big players though, most AAA game companies can get fucked for all I care.
The entitlement in this whole thread is insane. Is that how linux gamers are? Not to mention that modern gaming require developers to use third-party anti-cheat solution on which they have little control. You’d think the Linux crowd would understand that it makes more sense to please the 98% of players up until anti-cheats get better Linux support.
The funny thing is moat of these anti cheats have built in ways to enable Linux, such as easy anticheat, but Deva stubbornly wont toggle the option to enable.
I believe commonly used engines like UE and Unity also have options to build a game for linux as well.
Even if you’re not using an engine that supports building for linux, nor want to maintain a separate linux codebase. You can just build for windows while targeting proton compatibility.
Exactly this. It's like buying a PlayStation game and being shocked that it doesn't work on your Xbox.
Things like Proton are very much the exception and not the rule. Unless either Valve or the game devs come forward saying that Proton supports this, it shouldn't be an expectation.
Yes. They chose not to support Linux. Would you get pissy because God of War doesn't run on your Xbox?
No one made a promise, implicit or otherwise, that these games would run on Linux. The game devs didn't make this promise by not listing Linux or Proton as supported, and Valve didn't add these games to their list of explicitly supported games for Proton.
Valve said that we're free to piss about and try Proton on other games, and that they'd try to improve compatibility, (and they have done) but that isn't the same as a promise that these games will run.
Proton is just Valve’s fork of Wine. It had a lot of game-specific patches, to make all the Steam games work better.
Wine isn’t meant specifically for games - you can run most Windows applications in it. It’s just translations of Windows syscalls to Linux equivalents, to put it simply.
That’s not Baldurs Gate, it’s Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance which is a completely different game that was on consoles. It was an Action RPG as opposed to an RPG.
But it was also great fun. Especially with a friend.
Cyberpunk feels like it so much missed potential it almost made me sad playing it… The game is gorgeous and in many ways it really nails the cyberpunk feeling, which I’ve been very fond of since I was a kid so I would just love to be able to immerse myself in a game like this.
However it keeps slapping me in the face with stupid things that break the immersion… Primarily the low effort CRPG item system, where each weapon and piece of clothing has random stats. So you find 10 identical looking guns but they all do different amount of damage and add some random elemental damage, which would’ve made more sense if they were magical weapons in a fantasy game… When I last played it I found an oversized dildo that does 4 times as much damage as my katana… And of course a tiny bikini can have better armour value than actual armour…
LOL, seems like the devs decided to implement anime physics. More naked skin -> more armor. More weight -> faster machine. That’s why mechas are the fastest moving things know to man.
It’s an RPG, dude. If you don’t like RPGs then don’t buy them. I know a lot of people want Cyberpunk to be a GTA game or any other thing, but it isn’t.
Oh, I’ve been watching those videos with great interest. The bugs used to be very strong with this one. Fortunately, the devs managed to fix a lot of them, so it’s not quite as meme fuel as it was on day one. Buying it now probably doesn’t come with the legendary 600% buyer’s remorse booster.
You’re allowed to get another game even if you haven’t finished a previous one. You’re only here for like 80ish years so why not sample all that interests you?
This is what I feel. I’ve finished ToTK and Baldurs Gate 3 once(so far…), but beyond that I haven’t finished a game in probably years. Hasn’t stopped me from having fun in tons of games over the years. I usually play for gameplay more than story anyways, with a couple exceptions.
Buying any game after 3-5 years is the way to go. The bugs are fixed, patches are out, so mods are stable and most of the time you can find a sale where it costs 10-20€. And if you forget about it before that time, that means the game was not worth it
The lifeblood of fighting games is the online community. If you wait too long, everyone online is either way better than you or has moved on to the next fighting game.
Oh. That sucks. “Previous” fighting games don’t have people that stayed?
When I was finally playing Dark Souls 2, I was surprised that finding someone to play with was not hard. Fighting games scene might be different, though
It may be silly but I usually will blindly buy a game, find out it doesn’t work, then wait for a few years until it does. Because it will. Even if someone has to reverse engineer the game engine to use the game assets.
That’s silly and dumb on top, because games rapidly lose value. The $60 game you buy today (and don’t play) costs $40 in a year. And will be in a $12 Humble Bundle with 9 other games in 3-5 years tops.
I already get enough games in bundles that I don’t play, when I actually buy a game (even on sale) I only do it if I want to play it immediately. Otherwise in the future it will be cheaper anyway and have plenty of updates on top (if it didn’t get abandoned).
The thing is: I’d never buy a €60 game, because money is hard to earn. I have clear priorities, games are just a hobby.
Most of the games I buy are either old and more suitable to run on lower end hardware, or discounted, or bundles. I hate multiplayer games, so I won’t jump on the latest hyped up AAA franchise either. I’m a proud member of /c/patientgamers and /c/retrogamers.
My comment was meant as a tribute to how much gaming on Linux has improved, and to the people that make it happen.
The work that is going into Wine, Proton, DosBox, ScummVM, Luxtorpeda and all the other compatibility tools is what makes me quite positive that any game I buy will eventually get supported.
Sometimes that assumption will fail, but it’s a very small percentage of the games I own. I can live with that.
As the other guy pointed out that’s a little silly from an economics standpoint. Games depreciate quickly so it’s going to be cheaper to wait until someone confirms Linux support.
Also, buying something in hopes of it one day getting the support you want? That’s just crazy! Don’t buy something until it fits all your needs.
I usually buy games with heavy discounts or in bundles. For example, the last bundle I bought was Skyrim Special Edition + Prey for under €20. I was OK if one (or both) were unplayable or I if simply didn’t like them.
I don’t get upset if once in a while a game does not work, because I’ve seen the evolution of gaming on Linux since the 90’s, and have seen many unplayable games become playable. Yes, it sometimes takes a decade or so. :-)
I don’t spend too much on games because I have too many already that I most certainly will not be able to play before I die.
You’re free to spend your money however you wish, but buying a whole bundle and being OK with not being able to play any game in it? If you would wait for the 10 years until it actually becomes playable you’ll probably be able to get it for even less than $20.
You do you, but I personally don’t advise people buy something until it’s actually working. “Sit on this for 10 years and maybe then you’ll get what you paid for” is bad advice.
Personally I prefer to get a refund with the explicit reason “Game wont run on proton” It gives clear quantifiable feedback to valve and the developer that they lost this money because it wouldnt run on linux.
Or at least I would if that had happened recently. Last time a game wouldnt run for me was ace combat 7.
It’s generally just a bad idea to distract yourself while operating a two tonne machine that can go 120 km/h. Studies have shown that talking while driving at all significantly reduces your situational awareness and reaction speed.
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