Ah, for me moonlight just “searching for connected computers” forever with no controller buttons working at all and no ability to cancel it to put in the IP of the sunshine PC.
Moonlight on my phone works fine though, moonlight on steam link seems to just have a problem.
Drivers are still a shit show. The drivers in question have changed, but there’s still extremely common hardware with poor support. I know this is the hardware vendors fault but that doesn’t change my experience as a user – I need my hardware to work.
It’s still extremely fragmented. Yes, this is often a good thing because it let’s you pick the features you want but I’m not interested in comparing and configuring 14 different tiling window managers.
It’s still fragile outside of the terminal. I constantly see posts and comments about peoples OS becoming unbootable or show stopping issues they just can’t fix without hopping to another distro or nuking their install from orbit. The 18th most popular distro seems to be popular simply because it makes it easy to roll back fucked updates or sidegrades.
This stuff might be fine for people who love to tinker but I can’t afford to have my PC shit the bed when I need it for work and I’m not interested in having “chill and play some games” involuntarily replaced with “fix the bootloader”.
And I can’t help but feel like the “anybody who isn’t sucking off Linux must be bait” mentality ensures this is a pit the scene will never escape from.
There’s absolutely no chance you haven’t seen the posts describing these problems. You’re commenting on one right now
I have to do far more tinkering with Windows to make it usable than I do with Linux. With Linux I typically install it and then change one or two keyboard shortcuts (not even necessary, just a preference).
I wish Windows was as easy. I feel like in windows you always have to go onto powershell or the registry to fix something. Why can’t it just work?
And don’t get me started on how often you have to nuke your install when you run into issues (which, since this is windows we’re talking about, is often). Seriously, contact MS support about anything. Their ‘support’ is: “have you tried a system restore? Yeah? Ok then, reinstall Windows, bye.”
The drivers are awful and you have to search them all out individually rather than all just being automatically included. I’ve not installed a driver on Linux manually in a decade.
Installing software is a complicated minefield. Why can’t Windows just have a proper software centre?
I wonder if Windows will ever be as usable as Linux is. Because right now it’s not improving.
You’re the one coping lmao. Look if you want to spend more time diagnosing issues with your PC than using it, then Windows is a fantastic choice and I’m happy for you.
I guess that 4% market share is because it’s just so good. The Linux community couldn’t even pull that off without a multi-billion dollar corporation helping them with software compatibility and stability.
Feel free to keep making fun of Windows though – I haven’t made an operating system part of my personality so it doesn’t upset me in the slightest.
@PoliticalAgitator@TheGrandNagus Well, it's mostly because Linux is way newer to the computer scene than microsoft's OS for instance. When #linux started out, computers using msdos were already being shipped for over a decade, and so they were the de facto standard, and it takes time for people to switch to a better product if they are used to another one and have the ecosystem keeps them in (that's the main reason people keep buying overpriced apple products)
@PoliticalAgitator@TheGrandNagus On the contrary, Linux was already here when the need for supercomputers and servers appeared, and that's why most of them run on Linux.
4%? Linux has 6.3%+ on the desktop. Then there’s 6.5% unknown which likely includes a disproportionately high amount Linux systems too, what with Linux users being a lot more likely to obfuscate system information from trackers.
Then on mobile, Linux has 72%.
And Windows is popular because it came first and they have a monopoly. Once you have a monopoly, it’s easy to keep. Is Comcast so popular because it’s good, or is it because it’s the only real choice for a load of people?
Well you clearly have made your OS part of your personality, because here you are vehemently defending it and shitting on other OSes.
I don’t really care. If you somehow enjoy using Windows, despite the myriad of issues, then cool beans. Use it. I’m not really sure why you’re so insecure about it that you need to come here and tell us, though.
Don’t worry, I’m sure those statistics are just “bait” and it’s actually 99%
What? It’s 6.3%+. We don’t know the precise amount due to the high amount of “unknowns”, but 6.3% is the minimum assuming zero of the “unknown” configurations are Linux, which seems unlikely.
Then on mobile, Linux has 72%.
So it has far more traction when the “bait” things I mentioned don’t apply? Fuck, who’d have thought?
You can strawman all you want, the market share is 72%. End of discussion. “Nooo but that doesn’t countttt” isn’t an argument.
Vehemently defending it by saying nothing positive about it. The only reason I kept talking is because you were such a fuckwit in your reply.
You’ve been defending indirectly. We get it, you use Windows btw. Nobody cares.
You don’t think there’s some kind of clue in the post when I wished it was in a better state?
You spread misinformation and flew into a frenzied rage lol. You don’t want it to be in a better state, you just came here to post bait.
Oh, I get it now. You just find tiny threads and pull them as melodramatically as you can. It’s a hallmark of manipulative partners and untreated BPD that I should he seen sooner.
Minor criticism is turned into “this person must be a troll trying to bait us into anger” and even something you yourself described as “defending indirectly” became “vehemently defending” and of course I was in a “frenzied rage”, probably because I used the word “fuck”.
Then if that doesn’t work, resort to the usual lazy tricks. Take figurative speech literally, accuse people of logical fallacies that don’t apply, do a little bit of mind reading and then declare yourself the winner.
If I was actually a troll, I couldn’t have asked for a better reaction. You’re the worst ambassador for Linux I’ve ever seen.
I’m not your partner, though you probably wish I was.
You got angry and butthurt, started spreading misinformation and bait.
I’m not trying to convert you to Linux. Nobody cares whether you use it or not. Stick to your broken, complicated, and unstable OS.
I must be really interesting to talk to considering you won’t stop begging for my attention. Is that what this is? You’ve already alluded to me being like a partner. I’m not your partner and I don’t want to fuck you. Go use Tinder or something.
Most comments have been positive, so I’m gonna list all my issues. Using endeavours with KDE 6.2 and the AUR explicit sync patch, 5800 ryzen CPU and 3080 NVIDIA GPU.
The discord xwayland app can’t share screen, and the waycord app that fake chromiums the web interface that let’s you share screen has the sound bug out sometimes with large sound spikes. So if I want to share the screen I have to open the second app and then close it fast to minimize the chances I annoy my friends.
Window positioning. It almost seems a flagship Wayland issue. I would love if apps remembered on which screen and position I left them the next time I open them, telegram opens in the middle of the primary monitor, and I have to drag it to the right of the secondary one every time I switch on the PC.
Shutting down in any way that is not opening the console and typing reboot or “shutdown now” takes way way longer and sometimes bugs out. This might not be a Wayland issue, but a KDE one.
The tdrop program that let’s you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn’t work in Wayland, and it just isn’t the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.
I can’t think of anything else right now, most explicit sync issues I had were fixed with the AUR patch, so of anyone has those issues wait until the real patch comes around and they will get fixed. It was quite annoying without the patch though, some programs glitched visually hard and several games were unplayable due to the heavy ghosting (dark souls 2 and dragon’s dogma 2, for example). I’ll add to this comment if I remember anything else. Even if the issue was recently fixed it’s good to have a list of stuff so that people can check it out and confirm that it’s fixed, for posteriority.
You mean Plasma 6.0.2, not 6.2 - that will be released in a year.
Use X11 to Wayland Video bridge to get screen sharing working with any X11 app that can’t talk to desktop-portal/PipeWire (such as Discord)
What’s worth noting is that applications, as of now can’t affect window positioning in any way. It’s all about how compositor (kwin_wayland in this case) is placing them. Personally I don’t care that much because I’ve got shortcuts to quickly move windows between screens or desktops. You might consider looking at window rules - they’re pretty neat on KDE.
Shutting down? What???
On the tdrop thing, I wouldn’t expect it to be possible in near future, but how about Yakuake?
Yeah, 6.0.2, the version available in the arch repos.
I’ll check the video bridge, thanks! – Update on this, apparently I was already using it since it ships by default with KDE, it seems to be a discord bug. Weirdly enough, going back to an older flatpak version (0.0.42) fixed the issue. I’ll have to check the updates to see if they fix it.
Thanks on the window rules mention too. – Update on this, you are a saint. I added a rule for the telegram window in KDE so that it remembers its position, and it simply works. imgur.com/a/zrvbRPI
Yeah, idk, when I try to use the GUI it takes way longer than the CLI command somehow, and sometimes it blocks itself. It must be something related to some programming hanging itself and the system trying to wait until it stops, but I can’t be bothered, it’s way faster to open a terminal and just typing the command or opening KDE connect and pressing the “shutdown now” shortcut. Not a Wayland issue though.
I did use yakuake in the past but call it stupid brain, but once I read that alacritty was faster and I customized it to my liking, and then checking that foot was a little bit faster, I can’t go back. It’s stupid, I know that most of the use I give the terminal is actually spent on the commands themselves and that I can give transparency and remove window borders in yakuake, I’m just pissy that my fancy combo stopped working.
The tdrop program that let’s you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn’t work in Wayland, and it just isn’t the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.
Wake me up when there’s a working, native non-wsl waypipe client with sound for windows and android, that can hand off applications seamlessly to other hosts. (Think two computers, two monitors that feel like one).
Also working screensaver and monitor power options
My first experience in wayland, us discovering I couldn’t control monitor sleep/standby function. I found how to reinstall X and managed to escape it since.
That sounds like problem with specific software configuration, like missing packages in some distro or something being badly built. There’s nothing about Wayland that would prevent it from working.
Wayland is not a standalone server like Xorg and it doesn’t have standard utilities to control stuff like DPMS. That functionality goes to compositors that are effectively individual Wayland server implementations. Compositors can provide utilities to control display, and they usually do. For example, on KDE Wayland you can call kscreen-doctor --dpms off, wlroots compositors (Sway, Wayfire, Hyprland,…) have inter-compatible tools, like swaymsg output DP-1 dpms off. If that’s what you meant anyway.
There really should be a front end script that has uniform command line parameters, finds what your compositor is, translate the command line arguments and send them.
I dont know what that means. Normally the monitor turns off when the PC stops sending a signal. In KDE i can easily configure when to dim, turn off, lock etc. the screen.
I was the one that came default with ubuntu 22.10 But as I have stated in my initial post, the feature had been restored by reinstalling Xwindow Also, I feel that the commands equivalent to
<span style="color:#323232;">xset dpms force off
</span><span style="color:#323232;">xset dpms force standby
</span><span style="color:#323232;">xset dpms force suspend
</span>
Should be the same regardless which wayland variant you are using.
They dont need to, a Desktop could just use another compositor and the rest of the stuff but they often dont. wlroots is a project doing some general work, but most of the others dont.
I use an accessibility tool called Talon Voice. It is x.org only. Will the shift to Wayland kill these tools, or is it a case of the developer needing to rewrite for wayland?
On X11 apps can scan and read what they want. This is not even very good, but developers dont need to implement accessibility really, just make all text scannable.
If this is a screenreader you are talking about.
Apps need to send the reader specific texts that shouls be read, like push notifications. And this needs to be implemented, because on Wayland no app can just scan everything.
That’s one of the huge problems with Wayland. The core protocol is super minimalistic so it falls to each and every individual app to (re)implement everything: accessibility, clipboard, keyboard, mouse, compositing etc. etc.
The fact this was done in the name of security is a solution looking for a problem. Inter-window communication was never a stringent security issue on Linux.
It’s like advising people to wear helmets in their everyday life. Sure, in theory it’s a great idea and would greatly benefit those who slip and fall, or a flower pot falls on their heads, or are in a car accident and so on. But in practice it would be a huge inconvenience 99.99% of the time.
The largest part of all Linux apps out there will never get around to (re)implementing all this basic functionality just to deal with a 0.01% chance of security issues. Wherever convenience fights security, convenience wins. Wayland will either come around or become a bubble where 99% of Linux userland doesn’t work.
it falls to each and every individual app to (re)implement everything: accessibility, clipboard, keyboard, mouse, compositing etc. etc.
I haven’t read so much nonsense packed in a single sentence in a while. No, apps don’t implement any of these things themselves. How the fuck would apps simultaneously “implement compositing themselves” and also neither have access to the “framebuffer” (which isn’t even the case on Xorg!) nor information about other windows on the screen?
Please, don’t rant about things you clearly don’t know anything about.
GUI frameworks should implement this, just like any app built on GTK, Qt, Iced or possibly others have native wayland support.
But yes I agree this is not a good situation. There should be something like “accessibility permission” on Android, where apps can basically read anything.
Slightly OT but hasn’t Fedora gone all in on Wayland? Maybe it’s an attempt drive critical mass of adoption and concentrate developers’ minds to closing the gap between now and fully production ready. As such, maybe moving to Fedora will net you the best support and smoothest Wayland implantation.
It has not and it will not in the immediate future (~1 year).
None of the large, general-use distros will go further than to offer Wayland by default, for now.
It does not cover anywhere near 100% of use cases and, until it does, removing the only other option would be a show-stopper for a sizable part of their userbase.
For me, the plasma 6 implementation misses nothing. Multiple monitors work with no issues, and every program I could run works with no issues.
My main problem is that none of the tiling wayland compositors ( hyprland for example ) work well with multiple monitors. My usecase is to keepcmy laptop’s monitor in clamshell mode and just use the external one, but I tend to if I leave for a long time to turn off the monitor since plasma can’t turn it off the output for powersaving by itself for weird reasons and plasma 6 kwin will corectly start up on the monitor if I turn it on.
Compositors like hyprland for soke reason won’t and will ontly show blank screen and not even allow me to change to another tty, effectively freezing my system.
But I got used to the way plasma works, made it work similary to a tiling wm for the virtual desktops and placing speficifc windows in specific virtual desktop and stuff like that, so I get the benefits of a good stacking (floating) wayland compositor with robust virtual desktops support.
Weird, I’ve been using hyprland on multi monitor for a while
Only issue I’ve ever noticed is that some games will insist on running on my second monitor for some reason and will stay locked at at 1080p when moved to the higher res one
My problem is I only use external minitor and turn off laptop monitor, so when I also turn off the external monitor and then turn it back on hyprlamd just has a stroke.
The joke is that there are some people who think that by uploading themselves into a machine “to live forever,” their consciousness will also be transferred, like when you travel by bus from one city to another. In reality, you “upload yourself,” but that yourself is not you, but a copy of you. So, once the copy is done, you will still be in your original body, and the copy will “think” it is you, but it’s not you. It’s a copy of you! So, you continue to live in your body until you die, and, well, for you - that’s it. You’re dead. You’re not living. You’re finished. Everything is black. Void. Null. Done - unless you believe in the afterlife, so you’ll be in heaven, hell, purgatory or whatever, but the point is, you’re not longer on Earth “living forever.” That’s just some other entity who thinks it is you, but it’s not you (again, because you’re dead.)
This is represented by the parameters being passed by value (a copy) instead of by reference (same data) in the poster’s image.
It wouldn’t be you, it would just be another person with the same memories that you had up until the point the copy was made.
When you transfer a file, for example, all you are really doing is sending a message telling the other machine what bits the file is made up of, and then that other machines creates a file that is just like the original - a copy, while the original still remains in the first machine. Nothing is even actually transferred.
If we apply this logic to consciousness, then to “transfer” your brain to a machine you will have to make a copy, which exist simultaneously with the original you. At that point in time, there will be two different instances of “you”; and in fact, from that point forward, the two instances will begin to create different memories and experience different things, thereby becoming two different identities.
I recently tried to get Wayland working. Followed a simple guide to enable some NVIDIA boot parameter. Somehow it fucked my complete grub and I couldn’t boot until I messed around a fair bit with live usbs. Cost me a whole evening.
So I guess what Wayland is missing is normal support from the GPU manufacturers.
I don’t know how you messed that up, usually the switch is as easy as it can be, and the issue comes when using it, for its lack of explicit sync, causing apps to flicker, and frame pacing in games to be plain bad
This is being fixed in the next two months thankfully
Edit: Taking about Nvidia wayland support here, AMD and Intel are great
Nvidia didn’t want to play nicely and give standard APIs.
Their work around was other extensions that don’t actually do what’s needed, but sort of works in some scenarios.
All the GPUs I’ve used work fine, it’s a Nvidia throwing it’s toys out the pram situation which should hopefully get resolved as they open source the high level drivers and so the correct APIs can be implemented.
Nvidia don’t give a shit about Wayland. The reason they’re adding explicit sync is because it was implemented in the kernel. They don’t care how it will be used or by what.
XFCE is my preferred DE when I’m using one. It’s got a long lineage going back to FVWM and the setup remains consistent between new updates. I appreciate how it stays out of the way.
For anybody else following along, XFCE is working on Wayland support. In fact, the only component not already supporting Wayland in Git is XFWM4 itself. Wayland will ship officially as part of the 4.20 release.
They are creating an abstraction library that will allow XFCE to support both X and Wayland. Other desktop environments are going to use it as well.
I haven’t played anything blizzard in a minute but I absolutely LOVE the ubi launcher that asks for admin permissions two to eight times then makes me look up my password each time I launch one of their games (not that often) despite checking Remember Me EVERY TIME
lemmy.ml
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