why would you move from twitter, it is truly a more open forum now, dont care what views you have free speech should be the same for every one. people have thin skin and that just leaves them naturally as targets.
Uh, wouldnt this make more sense for mastodon instances to defed? Can we even see mastodon posts on lemmy? I know they can post here, but its always like a lost in translation weird post.
I think it’s got less to do with whatever is posted online and it’s more about the under the hood stuff like what devices you decide to use, what networks are being used to access their services, what contacts they have, and other shit like that.
People left reddit because reddit started charging for data access, and not the same people say they don’t want others to have access to their public data.
I thought it’s cause they didn’t want it to be flooded/overrun by the massive amount of posts from threads. let’s face it, threads is going to have a waaaaay bigger userbase. I mean shit, it already does if Instagram accounts automatically have a threads account.
Why is this good news exactly? Doesn’t this just mean that people who want to see content from Threads will be driven to that app instead? Why not allow Lemmy users to see Threads content without them actually having to support Meta?
this article here gives a pretty good rundown of the likely intent of any sort of federated integration with any meta product, with examples of the same thing happening twice before with other technologies.
supporting it puts them in a position to “help” it… as they “help” they implement new closed source features… then drop support.
much of the growth that would occur during the “support/help” phase would be on their proprietary iteration and would not benefit the fediverse.
the trajectory would likely be co-opting the fediverse, obscuring their service from the fediverse, while building their services behind closed doors, and then dropping support.
they’re recognizing the fediverse as a reasonable competitor, and this is a move intended to kill it.
I’m on the fence here. Luckily, at least, I think community/subreddit-based sites like Lemmy/Reddit don’t have “network effects” that are as “sticky” as Mastodon/Twitter, because with Lemmy/Reddit you don’t need to build up a follower list to start getting value. You just join the community and it’s as if you immediately “followed” a bunch of people who share your interests. You don’t even need to make an account - you can just bookmark a community and lurk, and maybe you eventually make an account to start interacting. It’s a great “on-ramp” - very low barrier to entry/usefulness.
I think that’s why Lemmy was able to take off so fast. It relies on community-level coordination, rather than every individual user having to make their own choice to switch, and try to get all their followers/followees to switch. So even if Meta did add a community-style mode, I don’t think it’d eat into the Lemmy userbase. It is hard to be sure though, and I respect the choices of those instances that have blocked/defederated.
Mastodon admins have a harder decision to make I think - there’s an opportunity to get very quick growth by effectively adding a lot more followable users/content. A bunch of people don’t like Meta/Facebook, but want to follow their friends, and so they may use Mastodon to do that, which could get a lot more people to move to “real” fediverse apps/sites like Mastodon. I know a lot of people that are on Threads now, and I’m looking forward to being able to follow them from Mastodon, rather than being forced to get Threads to keep up to date with what they’re working on.
No fences up my ass here, I didn’t jump so quickly to lemmy to be immediately joined to fucken Facebook. Like. At all. I’d bet a quick poll would speak loudly
I dont think you’ve taken into account what people in lemmy value the most.
Their principles. They mostly joined lemmy because one of their principle is against big corp controlling us for their own purpose.
That’s why threads is being blocked preemptively. Because they are corpo. Now compare that to exploding heads instance. The slowness of blocking another instance because of hate speech and bigotry. It’s because exploding heads issue does not or barely touched most lemmy peoples principle trigger. They allowed it to exist first for a long time before even considering of blocking it
UPDATE: Those rumours have been confirmed as at least one Mastodon admin, kev, from fosstodon.org, has been contacted to take part in an off-the-record meeting with Meta. He had the best possible reaction: he refused politely and, most importantly, published the email to be transparent with its users. Thanks kev!
kev should’ve accepted the meeting to see if he could infer the intent…
I’m putting the final touches on an app using material design. I’ve broken away from cards and haven’t even considered a light mode yet, but I’ve been pretty unhappy with the search/explorer
Meta’s Twitter clone. The smart thing they did was convert over Instagram accounts, so there’s a ton of semi-famous people on already. It’s got a ton of attention in the past two days, just for being Twitter sans Elon.
Facebook equivalent of Twitter (an underwhelmingly simplified description). I am not a fan of Meta but I’m a fan of competition in any market so even though I have no plans to use Threads I’m glad it exists as yet another option to prevent one single platform from being “the” platform.
Its Meta’s (Facebook) attempt at Twitter. Given how much Twitter is shitting the bed as well as Metas ability to push a new platform via their other channels, it has exploded overnight gaining millions of users almost instantly.
Well that makes sense. It’s easy to gain millions of followers when you own Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp. You just advertise to those users. Same reason that Google+ got 200 million users at it’s height. The trick is keeping them engaged and being better than the alternatives.
It doesn’t matter. You shouldn’t go to an instance just because it has the most members. If we do that, we’ll end up ruining the Fediverse, because the platforms will just become centralized. In stead, find one that aligns the most with your values/content you want to see.
I understand the reasoning behind us not all just joining the biggest one, but can you explain why we should join the ones that align with our values/content we want to see? If anyone on any instance can see everything that is on all instances(I think I’m understanding this correctly), then why does it matter what other content is on the instance that we choose?
Also, if the instance I am on shuts down then do I loose all of my comment/post history? Is there anything that I, as a user or community mod, can do to prepare for this happening so I can keep my own data and put it onto a new instance?
It’s not really about the content. It’s about the admins and rules. Some are more permissive about what instances they federate with, some are not. Your admin has a lot of power, and you should make sure you have an admin you trust.
Account migration is coming soon™. It’s not a thing yet, but it is on the list of features coming at some point.
Awesome, makes sense, thanks for the info. Where can I see such a list? I’m curious about other features… Post tags/flair, and links opening up directly into Jerboa for example.
(Apparently) Unpopular Opinion: I think defederating Threads is the wrong move, because it just locks people into Threads. If people on Twitter had the ability to move to Mastodon AND still interact with all the people they did before, I think we would have seen even more people move. The only reason I still check twitter at all is because I have a few close friends who didn’t move. Meta is likely going to have big adoption of people who aren’t ready to go to Mastodon, but are interested in getting out of the dumpster-on-fire that twitter seems to continue to be. But blocking those people from being able to join the more popular Lemmy instances, given no actual policy violations, just will keep people in Meta that otherwise could leave. With the “however” being: It’s not quite clear to me that Threads users will be interacting with Lemmy as much Mastodon, if Threads were a Reddit replacement, it’s more directly connected.
The problem isn’t with the user base. It’s with Meta and their business practices. People very simply do not trust Meta or Facebook and with good reason.
That’s exactly it. Deleted my Instagram account when I learned they signed me up for a Threads account automatically. Haven’t used Insta in years, but Mark says I have to have a Threads account. So Fuck Zuck.
more ideally would be as many levels of granular control as possable for users and their clients.
The point is to blacklist as specific as needed, EX: dont block lemmy dot Marxist Lennonists just its extremist communities (ml admins have a communism chinaphile problem)
However Servers ghould get
whitelist/blacklist of users
blacklist/whitelist of communities (prevents blocking servers for just their groups)
I understand your viewpoint but you have to realize meta/Facebook has done this before. The best solution to protect Lemmy/mastodon in the long run is to cut the cancer out before it has a chance dm to spread.
When you cut off a cancer, it dies. When you defederate a social network orders of magnitude larger and more powerful than you… it doesn’t even notice and continues to thrive. It’s not the same thing at all.
Threads got 80 million users in 48h. Those people are not gonna use Mastodon anyway. They don’t care about their privacy, they don’t care that some proprietary algorithm is gonna decide what they will see, they don’t care that it’s Facebook. Those people have no standards. The only way we can help them is by educating them and if that doesn’t change their mind, then there is nothing we can do, because freedom and privacy is not something they value. People who value them are capable of making a small sacrifice of not using some website when an alternative exists.
Facebook either just wants to use the Fediverse for their own benefit or they want to destroy it before it becomes a bigger competitor. We shouldn’t risk all that we have built just because we live in an ignorant society that doesn’t understand technology.
Just because they won’t use Mastodon now, doesn’t mean they never will in the future. Especially when (not if) Mastodon sorts out some of their usability issues around signup and interacting with posts from other instances.
We need to build a strong society that isn’t dependent on big corporations for being able to do the most basic things like talking to each other. The usability issues seem like a tiny price to pay for that and for privacy and freedom of speech. Those people can join Mastodon any time if they wish. But if Facebook manages to destroy the Fediverse, there will be no freedom for anyone.
It’s not just about having the biggest reach, though.
I’ve noticed that some of the folks who are generally against defederating, whether it be between independent fediverse instances or from large companies, seem to have this impression that fediverse needs to take a huge chunk of some market share in order to compete. But the whole point of the Fediverse is that it doesn’t need to compete.
It’s not a company looking to increase their size, following a bottom line, and trying to increase profitability. It’s a network of people who communicate and share content. There’s no need to compete with anyone in order to accomplish that. We’re doing it right now regardless of whatever else exists out there.
We’ve gotten so used to this model where there are only a few really culturally relevant social media sites, but that’s literally because we’ve just bought into the business model of these companies as societies. Slashdot has been going strong since 1997. Is it the biggest forum or news site on the internet? No. It gets a tiny portion of the internet’s traffic. But that’s plenty to be what it is!
The fediverse is not facebook or twitter or reddit, and it shouldn’t be. We don’t want or need it to be.
I heard someone make the point recently that nobody walks into a nice, small restaurant and says they wish they were at McDonalds. Facebook is the McDonaldsification of the internet. Let’s be a bunch of small mom and pop restaurants instead.
Fully agree. It would be like saying people with @gmail addresses can’t email people on @someFederated.com email addresses. Also I think (and correct me if I’m wrong here) the idea of “defederating” gives power to some in a way we hated reddit admins having power. Suddenly it’s “totally the fediverse except when…”.
Imo fuck that. If I don’t like threads I won’t use threads the same way if I don’t like lemmy.someinstance I won’t interact with lemmy.someinstance. leave it open and let the users choose. But also let’s educate. Some will listen and some will roll their eyes. But it’s a choice.
Being the “Ban Happy” socal media is a bad thing and an even worse reputation.
I debate if its a good thing to let FB just have free content with asterisks as I have no idea whitch way the cup of users will spill
EDIT: FB is a parisite that has a small enugh heart to use agressive tactics like Embrace Extend Extinguish, be careful if we do let them in and always be ready to shut that door)
Another thing, lemmy.ml, reddit, twitter, (tiktok for good mesure) as well as Facebook and sons (and likely more) have sensorius admins, moderating above what most users want and warping conversations to pretend like “this is what people are saying online and nothing more nor less”. To be overly flippant: “lol problem child blocked other problem child”
perspective: if i can still reach everyone on the fediverse with threads… why should i switch to lemmy and co? there is no incentive for it. so 99% will not do it if they don’t have to or get a incentive from it.we don’t get something from it, but facebook does (userdata and money).
so its a one sided deal where only facebook wins and we lose in the end.
Since writing my comment above, I’ve come across Cory Doctrow’s “Let the Platforms Burn” article where he argues that interoperability and the ability for users to move to other platforms is the best way out of the Meta situation. …medium.com/let-the-platforms-burn-6fb3e6c0d980
i mean, could lemmy even work with threads? completely different layout and functionality. im having a hard time understanding the Fediverse past lemmy instances interacting haha.
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