Talking to someone who justifies this kinda shit is always a trip. They’ll say that people who aren’t earning a living wage just need to work harder and pick up a marketable skill to improve their situation. But you can simultaneously get them to agree that many of these low wage “unskilled” jobs need to exist for society to continue functioning, so which fucking is it?
The answer is that the capitalist parasites and their horde of boot lickers believe it’s totally acceptable for there to exist an underclass of human beings born to work until their bodies give out for the enrichment of their superior employer.
They can’t afford to live a dignified life doing the shit I need them to do? That’s fine, just toss 'em into the hole when they stop working and replace them with the next generation.
Honestly man, I’m getting real sick and tired of pretending to be above violent retribution when it comes to these people. My blood fucking boils each and every time I need to look my boss in the eye and pretend to smile as they say farcical shit like “we’re all a family here” or “let us know if there’s anything you need” while paying me exactly the minimum wage and hiring the exact number of employees it takes for them to avoid giving any of us enough hours to qualify for benefits.
Anyway, Stalin had the right idea with gulags, and we should bring those back. Thanks for coming to my TED talk
lmao this lemmitors comparing Hexbear users to 4channers shit never gets old. When you liberals meet someone far to your left it must really break your brain for you to lump us in with fascists.
You know what I almost never see referred to as edgy out of hand? People who don’t want to fully abolish the US prison system, which to this day kills far more people far more often than the Soviet gulag system did shortly after the end of WW2. And that’s really strange considering the US prison system is designed from the ground up to maintain a pool of slave labor by incarcerating racial minorities on bullshit drug offenses. Personally, I’d much rather prison be used to keep dangerous reactionaries from causing trouble while they’re being reeducated.
Look mate I don’t live in USA, I have nothing to do with USA. I was commenting on your stupid ass glorification of forced labor camps in soviet shithole
And you clearly don’t seem to have problem with US prison system, only that wrong people are sent there. You’re as full of shit as the people you think you’re criticizing. You’d rather be yelling at people not loving your dear dictators than actually trying to do anything good for the world.
Don’t worry, you may not live in the US, but you’re definitely an American in spirit.
And you clearly don’t seem to have problem with US prison system, only that wrong people are sent there. You’re as full of shit as the people you think you’re criticizing
Soviet Union: Sequesters fascists and counter-revolutionaries for reeducation after Nazi Germany murdered millions of people while invading the USSR with the express purpose of genocide.
The US: Uses drug prohibition as a bullshit excuse to systematically arrests racial minorities in their millions in order to continue enslavement after the abolition of chattel slavery. The conditions are so brutal that the death rate for modern US prison inmates exceeds that of the Soviet gulag system just a decade into recovering from the devastation wrought by WW2.
Lemmitor turbolib: Wow, these are morally equivalent. If you replace the words “fascist comprador looking to resume the brutalization of the working class” with the words “black people” then you tankies are starting to look an awful lot like 4channers!
I’ll spell it out for you a little clearer, since you don’t seem capable of understanding it on your own.
Your entire attitude fucking screams “I have nothing good going on in my life, so I’ve adopted an extreme viewpoint that easily allows me to feel superior to others”.
You see this shit on all sides of the political spectrum. An example you’re likely familiar with and hate would be fanatical/fundamentalist Christians. Nothing truly going right with their life, so they adopt a belief system that gives them an outlet for their hate/anger/frustration where they don’t have to feel bad about it because they are targeting the “bad guys”.
Someone who was in a good place in life wouldn’t be posting shit online calling for putting people in fucking gulags.
You can use all the excuses and mental gymanstics you want, but at the end of the day, you’ve adopted an idealogy where extreme actions are justified and right to take against your “enemy”, and where anyone even slightly advocating for you to slow your roll is instantly redefined as an “enemy”.
You just did that. You start spouting shit about Americans, and when the guy said he wasn’t one you just said that he effectively was one anyway and kept down the path you were already on. That’s absurd.
Anyway, your entire defense for your statements here is that your bad guys are the real bad guys. That’s the beginning and end of it. That type of self righteousness is something to be feared, not something to be championed because you’ve “found the right target”.
Please note, I’ve not made any statement on whether you’re wrong or right in your targeting. That’s a separate discussion.
It has been demonstrated time and time again in historical record the world over, that the fervor of people like you can and will be abused, and shifted towards wider and wider classifications of “targets”.
Anyway, I hope your life situation improves enough someday that you no longer find the need to be a self-righteous asshat on the internet calling for people’s torture. I’m blocking you, so I won’t be around to see it.
People who have been fucked over by the system often adopt a position to advocate for radical system change? Wooah, very insightful. If you care about people who are negatively affected by modern systems, then that makes their opinion and lived experience more important, not less.
You even admit that the user may be targeting the right people, so your point is what? That violence is unjustifiable? That strongly believing in a cause leads to disaster? They’re not true points, but they’d be much better starting points for constructive discussion, so you can just say whatever you actually mean.
People making such pretentious, word-salad arguments as yours should not be throwing around the term ‘self-righteous asshat’.
I have nothing good going on in my life, so I’ve adopted an extreme viewpoint
Correct. Oppressed peoples tend to support “radical” movements that would improve their lives, and this is a stupid comment for trying to make that sound like a bad thing.
God are you people so fucking stupid, just a bunch of unwarranted self importance and navel gazing nonsense all crammed into a skull cavity the size of a thimble.
Your entire attitude fucking screams “I have nothing good going on in my life, so I’ve adopted an extreme viewpoint…”.
You mean to tell me that people who are chewed up and shat out by the current order are willing to take drastic measures and radically change the world!??! surprised-pika
Honestly dude if I lost a debate as hard as you did I wouldn’t be spouting this psychobabble diarrhea
“you believe in stuff and that’s bad cause I don’t believe in anything” is never the place you want to be in a discussion, you basically admitted you have no clue what the fuck you’re talking about and because your opponent does that somehow makes them mentally ill??? jesse-wtf
So are only people who are “in a good place” in their lives capable of having “extreme” political beliefs? How do you justify who is in a “good place” and who isn’t? Do you think it could ever be related to political or economic forces? Or are “extreme” political ideologies all universally forbidden? How do you qualify what is “extreme”? Are people who are not in “a good place” only able to have conservative positions that maintain status quo or are they only able to be apolitical? How do you think maintaining status quo or not having any political beliefs would help their “life situation [improve] enough” if there is no change to their politico-economic reality which directly impacts their life situation? If one is in a “good place” what kinds of political beliefs would they typically exhibit or are they allowed to have?
Your entire attitude fucking screams “I have no real political analysis but suffer from a great sense of narcissism that leads me to a false sense of intelligence which makes me think I can paternalistically psychologize others’ entire lives without knowing them so that I can justify sharing my ignorant opinions that communicate that I believe I have a better life than others do and that makes me a superior person” so that gives me hope you won’t be able to help yourself from responding further. Also happy to pay you with Hexbear gold for a similar psychological analysis and thorough breakdown of my political potential if it saves me a trip to the therapist, kind stranger. Thanks.
You’d rather be yelling at people not loving your dear dictators than actually trying to do anything good for the world.
You were the one who scolded them for being “edgy”; so weird how you immediately switch things up when anyone could simply scroll up and see what really happened. And Stalin, the famous dictator who attempted to resign four separate times and who the CIA admitted was not in total control of the USSR.
This is where the idea of “personal responsibility” is useful for liberals. Flatly admitting that they want a desperate underclass is too mask off for them to feel like good people so they invent a way of blaming individual victims rather than the economic system.
The poor has a theoretical opportunity to pull themselves up by the bootstraps so when they don’t do that it’s really their own fault. Of course that theoretical opportunity doesn’t translate into actual opportunity for most people but that’s fine, as there’s enough window dressing of meritocracy to make the opportunity look real if you are careful not to go into too much detail.
This is also the reason why liberals hate discussing real-world examples. Their logic only works in abstract thought experiments where they get to control the variables. Saying that everyone has the opportunity to succeed is a lot easier than saying that Bob, who has a set of very concrete and undeniable material conditions, has the opportunity succeed.
I’m pro unconditional basic income, but I would argue that it’s more about you having to make sure you have everything you need yourself. No one would say to someone who lives completely self-sufficient that he needs “to earn a living”.
We're always told the people at the bottom rung of society, the people doing "entry level" jobs just need to work harder and harder to earn a proper living...
But how does that work really? Unlike a lot of high level jobs, none of these jobs just exist for the sake of existing, most of these "entry level" jobs are essential to society (we saw that much during the pandemic).
Somebody has to do them or society just doesn't work, so don't the people doing these literally essential jobs deserve to be paid a fair living wage? They're working just as hard as the people above them, yet they're paid peanuts in comparison
Id never worked harder than when I was working retail as a HS student. And the worst part is interacting with assholes who thought you were beneath them, which I think it’s what this meme underlines.
was lucky to be well off to get an education which provided a way to land a cushy SW job. Mentally stressful at times sure, but I didn’t have to take shit from somebody and worry if I could afford my next meal. And I see the same ego on the other side here, where people sneer or condescend towards min wage workers.
So many things we take for granted are just down to luck, or lack thereof.
Now I don’t know how it would feel to be wealthy. Where money ceases to be something you need to think about on a day to day basis, but I think that’s when it just becomes a status symbol, and you have to make more only because the Jones bought their 4th yacht, so of course you can’t be seen with less than that! It never ends, and that’s why I think rich-ass capitalists can never have enough, because in their mind the competition never ends and no amount is ever enough.
Youths of today discovering idioms of yesteryear going, “mm technically, this implies…” as if that wasn’t the obvious, intended implication to begin with.
If you think about the brutality of nature, which we are mostly isolated from, then yeah, organisms in general do have to earn their right to life through overcoming and eating other organisms.
Even in a civilization someone has to produce food so you’ll survive. Civilization doesn’t mean no one has to work.
If you do no work but because of civilization you still have food to eat, it means someone else is working to earn your living for you.
This bizarre meme implies work has no value, and was likely made by a wealthy university socialist that had everything paid for by their parents so doesn’t understand the value of work.
This meme does not state no one needs to work. It states you don’t need to earn your place among the living. You’ve already done so by virtue of being born. I think that is a noble goal for a society to uphold. Higher ideals are, of course, what separates us from the realm of animal urges. Once you begin to mix laws of the jungle back into society the point of our isolation from it is subverted. If we truly are the greatest Earth has to offer, surely we can figure so.
Even Marie Antoinette wasn’t so disconnected from the peasants to say “let them eat higher ideals.”
Someone has to work so you can survive. If you don’t want to work, society will take care of you. You’ll still be living, but you aren’t earning it, someone else is earning it for you.
Once again, this is not saying society will take care of you and everyone will just sit on their bussies and no one will ever lift a finger. This is repealing the idea that you have to earn your stake to be considered human and alive in a world that has abstracted everything away to just getting funny paper. People will still farm and cultivate crops. There are people who want to do that now. Are you vehemently opposed to people just feeling and being accepted from birth? I for one think a society built on more welcoming foundations would see less crime and more work.
Sure there are people that want to farm. But are there people that want to want to deal with sewage? Why do you think plumbers earn more money than other trades?
I want to run a cafe instead of what I’m doing right now. I don’t want to be a waiter of wash dishes or anything like that. I just want to design the menus and decide on how it’s decorated. Is that the job I’ll have in a socialist utopia, or will I have to do a job I don’t want to do? What if there’s already too many cafes, or not enough people that want to be waiters or was dishes? I won’t have to do anything but I’ll still be provided for?
In the end there will always be people doing jobs they don’t particularly want to do. Someone’s gotta unclog the sewage when the elite of the socialist society plug the pipes with the overabundance of shit they spew out.
How about capitalism? How many MBAs does the world need? Marketing consultants? Advertising cosultants? IT consultants? Consultant consultants? There are countless jobs that serve the machine and no other purpose that benefits society. Somebody will do the necessary jobs. There are more incentives than you realize. For instance, what if I want more than my UBI pays me? Plumbing has entered the chat. The only reason you defend this system so hard as the epitome is because nobody has experienced anything else but this. Its scary I know, but there are more ways than one to exist, and every system has its trade-offs. But our social contract between our governments in clearly broken, we are clearly strung along on the whims of shareholders and capital. Say what you will, but I think we can do better than “those people deserve to starve son, they have no jobs.”
Who here is saying “No one should work” no one except maybe the most high on their own farts anarchist is saying that. The end goal of marxism is “From each According to their abilities to each according to their needs” their will be work, The farm will be ploughed. THe difrence is all will be provided for.
In no capitalist society that I know of will you be executed for not working - you have a right to life
What you don’t have the right to is someone else to provide for you if you don’t give anything back
That said I’m fairly sure with the amount of automation we have everyone should need to put in a whole lot less work than they do to keep society afloat
What you don’t have the right to is someone else to provide for you if you don’t give anything back
Yes you do. Lots of people are on disability benefits, unemployment, a pension, or are literal children. And those programs should be expanded to cover everyone who doesn’t work, not just those who can justify their existence to a government form.
What are you saying? That you wouldn’t give anything back if not for the threat of homelessness and starvation? I don’t need a threat to make the world a better place.
I’m sure I’d give something back but I’m also sure most of it wouldn’t be of much use to anyone else, I’d be working on stuff like mods, niche tools for myself that probably 3 people on earth would find useful, and stupid ideas for fun like some streamers get to
Listen, I don’t think it’d be as disasterous for anyone with a passion. The people who would be fucked and have to adjust are the ones whose only goal is get money. Imo thats not a healthy way to be a human as it usually has a price tag of everyone else. Theres constant suffering every day and most of it is in the name of profits. Shit, my boss acts like it’d murder him to get me 10k more a year so I am not below the american median when in reality the company wouldn’t even count that as pocket change, I see the revenue and expenses every day. The sociopaths control and benefit from this system and you defend it. Its like a strange stockholm syndrome.
Passions don’t necessary line up with something that’s beneficial to society is my point.
Absolutely the distribution of wealth at the moment is far from fair and I wish we could fix that, but I still think short of everything being automated even in a utopia where we do everything perfectly as a society people still have to do jobs they don’t want to because there are jobs noone wants to do that need doing
I highly doubt anyone has a passion for working in the service industry, cleaning up the messes kids make at school or collecting people’s rubbish but they’re jobs that need doing and people do them because they’re compensated for them
Less than two steps between that and eugenics, and one step between eugenics and genocide. We’ve seen and documented that. It’s a logical but sociopathic mentality.
Conversely, when we realise that we’re stronger together and act empathetically as a society, every one of us and all of society benefits. When we care for the least of us, crime goes down and we find geniuses who improve life for us all, who would otherwise die in anonymous poverty.
Living like barbarous animals – not rising above the ‘brutality of nature’, as you said – helps sociopaths who take advantage of our better nature to enrich themselves. Indeed, if we structure our society around that, as we have done lately, our society will devolve around the lowest common denominator (people like Musk or Trump).
Your comment would have hit much harder as a rejection of cruelty and advocacy for kindness if you haven’t thrown sociopaths under the bus. Most sociopaths are poor people, and they’re all disabled.
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