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UncleBadTouch , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?
@UncleBadTouch@lemmy.ca avatar

if someone wants in, a lock wont even slow them down. check out lock-picking lawyer

Shurimal ,

Burglars won't pick locks, though. Breaking the door, door fixture or the window next to the door is much faster, easier and requires very little skill.

schmidtster ,

Lots do, less common with more modern locks, but a bump key is a very quick fast way to try and get in.

AA5B ,

I doubt it. Bump key requires a tool and a skill. The bar is not high but there is one. My understanding is most burglaries are impulse or opportunity. Is something open or unlocked? Can I break it with my boot or a nearby rock?

schmidtster ,

Doubt what? A proven issue?

A bump key requires zero skill and a set of 10 will net you around 90% of current doors. And skill? It’s a 30 second video to watch, if you even need it. You push the key in and turn at the same time. If it works it works, if it doesn’t you move on. Even a trained professional can’t get into every single door, it’s about ease. If it doesn’t work, they move on.

AA5B ,

I doubt it’s used frequently to break and enter. Burglaries are much more opportunistic

schmidtster ,

It’s used very frequently…. It’s hard to track though since it leaves no trace if done right. Most people would just think they left their door unlocked.

But of course very few people are going to admit that either.

I seriously don’t know why I’m arguing with you or why you think that your opinion matters.

It’s a known issue, simple as that. They are illegal to own without a locksmith license for these things exact reasons.

Ignore facts if you want mate.

AA5B , (edited )

My opinion doesn’t matter as yours doesnt, just actual facts.

I didn’t spend enough time finding data but this is representative of data I’ve read

www.adt.com/…/how-do-burglars-break-into-houses

Edit to add: here’s an article from “Bump Key and Lock Picking News”

ukbumpkeys.com/…/how-safe-is-your-home-i-ask-a-th…

schmidtster ,

He bought lockpicks…. Not a bump key…. Said that they couldn’t use it to pick their nose…. And it’s one persons opinion…. Lord have mercy.

They work, and if you use the right terms you’ll find plenty of supporting evidence.

Try using bumpkey instead of lockpicks for starters……

AA5B ,

I never disagreed with whether bump keys could be used, just whether they are.

There are lots of ways you can get sophisticated to break into pretty much any home, to get around various security doors, locks, alarms, dogs, cameras: a homeowner can never keep out a determined sophisticated burglar. I’m arguing that those are extremely rare and would need sufficient payoff, so it’s also not worth worrying about for most of us.

The bar might be low on using a bump key, and I do see plenty of scare stories in the media about how available they are, but none that I read ventured to say how frequently they’re actually used.

However actual crime stats continue to say you need to worry about the basics, and bump keys are either not mentioned as a frequently used tool or are not frequently used. I’m not claiming my house is secure against them; it’s not. I’m saying that if I get burgled, it’s much more likely there was a door open, or a door kicked in, or a window broken. The cause will be the blinking lights visible through the windows indicating potentially valuable electronics, and it will likely be a smash and grab. No bump key involved, no finesse of any kind

HidingCat ,

LPL is quite a bit better than your average thief though, and if you attract enough attention to have this kind of expertise thrown at you, you need to worry more than just locks.

JackbyDev , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

It depends on your threat vector. In the academic sense they’re less secure but if you often loan out keys they’re more secure because you don’t have to give someone the key. If you often forget to lock the door they’re more secure because you can do it remotely.

NotYourSocialWorker ,

Or if you have kids they can’t lose their keys if they just have a pin. And that pin can be changed if they tell it to someone.

phoenixz , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

Check the YouTube channel 'the lockpicking lawyer". He picks locks, both mechanical and electrical. His typical videos don’t take more than 2-3 minute because that’s all he needs to pick a lock multiple times. Electrical locks usually are opened with a paperclip or something similar. Wat too many locks are designed and built by idiots who have no idea about security

NotYourSocialWorker ,

I wish that he would try his hand on a lock from Yale. Considering that they are part of Assa Abloy who are very well respected in the lock business. My suspicion is that a company who are mainly makers of mechanical locks at least won’t fall prey for the many of the beginners mistakes lockpicking lawyer points out.

dipshit , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

Less secure.

captain_aggravated , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

From what I’ve seen? Considerably less secure.

Many of them feature a normal pin-tumbler lock cylinder as a backup in case the electronics fail, and best case scenario it’s going to be as mediocre as any old Kwikset hanging on the peg on the comedy aisle at Lowe’s. So you’re probably still vulnerable to key theft, key duplication, picking, combing, raking, jiggling, etc.

Then there’s the electronics. A surprising number of them rely on either a solenoid to directly operate the latch/bolt, or a relay that energizes a motor to do the same, both of these are vulnerable to attacks by magnets. A stupid number of them are vulnerable to disassembly attacks. There are trace evidence attacks such as looking at the keypad and noticing where all the fingerprints are, there’s just watching you dial the combination…

And the smart phone app driven ones…sure, let’s send a signal that means “I just got home” across the internet. That sounds safe.

warmaster , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

More ways to open is leds secure than leds ways to open. That said if you have an unsecured window, then that is the weakest link of the chain.

DNOS , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

If the door is made of cardboard as most us’s one are u better get the cheapest one it won’t make a difference… look at an European door if u don’t now what I mean…

Izzy , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?
@Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

If there is no keyhole to pick then it is probably marginally more secure, but if a burglar wants to get into your home then no door lock is going to stop them. They could just break it or break your windows.

stevehobbes ,

This is it. The weakest part of most doors is the door. A sledge hammer will go through a door or window regardless of the lock.

Smart locks are way more convenient and the ability to grant timed access and unique access controls probably makes them more secure.

AngryAnusHornets ,

deleted_by_author

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  • AA5B ,

    If you’re caught with a lock pick, or sledge hammer or saw all, that establishes intent. You’ll do more time. Of course that’s a huge “if”

    stigmata ,

    If they thought that far ahead they wouldn’t be running around breaking into homes and cars.

    Followupquestion ,

    Have you seen the scrap prices for catalytic converters? Also, the best thieves of all time were the ones that stole the catalytic converters from the police vehicles in a certain major city. Other than taxes paying for their replacements, I’m not even mad, I’m impressed with their hubris.

    mojo ,

    Nah, that’s why I run linux

    Tankaus ,

    Bazinga.

    NevermindNoMind ,

    They could just break it or break your windows.

    This is why you need backup measures. For example, if they break in through my windows, they’ll be foiled by the micromachines I placed strategically on the floor. If they break through the door, they’ll have to contend with the blowtorch I have rigged just inside the entryway. Always remember, “this is my house, I have to defend it.”

    Izzy ,
    @Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

    Traps are technically illegal.

    lemmylommy ,

    Just leave some Lego on the ground. Perfectly legal, yet instantly lethal to anyone who steps on it.

    dandroid ,

    instantly lethal to anyone who steps on it

    I like to pretend the afterlife is like a big AA meeting or group therapy session where people have conversations about how they died.

    “So how did you die?”

    “Oh, I broke into someone’s house. The bastard left Legos everywhere. I tried my best to avoid them all, but it was so dark that I missed a dark blue 1x1 brick. It shattered every bone in my leg like tempered glass. The sudden collapse from pain and losing all structural integrity in my leg caused me to fall on the remaining Legos. A green plate sliced my jugular. The last thing I remember as things were going dark was a dark figure approaching. It was holding a Lego Millennium Falcon above its head as if it was going to throw it full-force against my skull. The next thing I knew, I was here.”

    lemmylommy ,

    🤣

    orphiebaby ,
    @orphiebaby@lemmy.world avatar

    This was one of the best laughs I’ve had in a bit, thank you

    mojo ,

    smh conservatives have gone too far

    settoloki ,

    If they manage to get past that, you should attach a paint can to some rope and have it rigged to swing towards them if they are coming up the stairs.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

    Man I am having some weird kind of deja vu today.

    son_named_bort ,

    What if you’re in another city that your uncle happens to live in and his house is being renovated, would you still be able to defend it?

    GobiasIndustries ,

    As long as you befriend a homeless person beforehand, you’re covered.

    kratoz29 ,

    We have steel doors and protection metal bars in the windows in LATAM (yep, our houses are little fortress) and even that would not stop the most dedicated burglars…

    You know, I feel cameras help even more, these scums get anxiety when they see cameras lol.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

    We have steel doors and protection metal bars in the windows in LATAM

    Sounds a lot like Tucson…

    silentdon ,

    I had a metal door and an iron gate inside with shitty locks. Burglers broke the locks and got in.

    I replaced the door and got great locks. The locks held up fine but they broke the gate right out of the wall and got in.

    If someone wants to get in, they will.

    AnalogyAddict , (edited ) to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

    In my case, definitely more secure. If I’d given my kids a key, my ex was likely to copy it without my knowledge. With a code, I could tell them to go ahead and give him the code if he pressured them, then just change it.

    And I still have a non-electronic deadbolt.

    TheLurker , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

    The largest tech companies can’t secure their shit properly.

    No these smart locks are terrible. Their physical locks are usually bargain basement trash, their design is usually full of well known flaws and their code is full of well known exploits.

    Matriks404 , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

    Any person that specializes in IT will know that most of these smart locks/security measures are bullshit and traditional methods are much better.

    Furbag ,

    Let’s be frank, traditional locks exist to keep honest people honest. It’s trivial to learn how to pick locks, there are YouTube channels dedicated to exactly that, and the tools can be purchased for very little upfront cash.

    There is no such thing as a foolproof unpickable locks. Any lock that is designed to be opened will have vulnerabilities associated with it that can be exploited by somebody who knows how.

    That said, smart locks are probably not much worse off in that regard. I think you can still use a manual key with some models, so that’s not really adding security, but rather convenience. For the ones that are 100% digital, the issue is just shifted to technical knowledge of the lock software and not the mechanical workings.

    I’d say they aren’t any more or less secure, just another option that a determined thief can get past, either through skill or brute force if necessary.

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    I’d say the main purpose of any kind of lock (meaning the weakest link all around your house - strong front door won’t help if the kitchen door to the patio is always unlocked) is to be less appealing to burglars than the next house. At least that is how it works in Germany: Burglars drive around in vans, typically in daylight, sometimes walk around houses, looking for opportunities. If they see a cracked window, or an easy to access balcony door without too much exposure, they’ll give it a go. If that balcony door (I lived in a flat with that setting) has a big iron grating installed in front of it, they’ll move on and look for another place to rob, not because they couldn’t maybe find out that the iron grating is not attached very well, but because it looks like too much effort to even invest the time to find out.

    Anduin1357 ,
    @Anduin1357@lemmy.world avatar

    There is at least the possibility to get a good traditional lock that is trusted by organisations that value security and has the interest in getting security solutions that genuinely defeat intrusion.

    Anyways, the general idea should be to have a house lock that is better than your neighbors, and that is sufficient for most purposes.

    FlyingSquid , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    How easily could the Flipper Zero hack a smart lock? I’m guessing relatively easily.

    lilShalom ,

    If its using a wireless frequency , probably.

    Shadow ,
    @Shadow@lemmy.ca avatar

    Not at all. It’s not like they’re just listening for a dumb radio signal, they use crypto.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    …which the Flipper Zero can beat.

    dangblingus , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

    If you need electricity to operate your locks, a power failure is the difference between you sleeping on your front porch, or burglars having a key to your house.

    pianoplant ,

    You’re not wrong in spirit but yeah… they’re battery operated.

    zeekaran ,

    No house lock goes from locked to unlocked if you cut power to the house. What the hell are you talking about? They’re battery powered and nearly every single one of them still uses a key from the outside as a manual override.

    stigmata ,

    What idiots upvoted this?

    RIP_Cheems , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?
    @RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

    Depends. Any modern lock can easily be picked with something called a comb, which can bypass all the pins by pushing them far up into the lock so it can turn. However, the position on the security of pin pads is debatable. Regardless of which is better, both can easily be bypassed with a drill, so I guess neither.

    Pyr_Pressure ,

    Every house has a window to break, door locks are an illusion of security.

    Asudox ,
    @Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

    The reason why people even pick locks to get in homes is because it’s most of the time silent to pick a lock. Do you think someone would just choose to pick the lock instead of breaking the window if noise wasn’t a concern? Though I guess there are silent glass cutters too.

    ToxicWaste ,

    Only cheap locks with a huge design flaw can be picked using a comb. The lock picking lawyer explains in many videos, how this is a very old exploit and easily can be defended against.

    However, locks like that sadly still exist. So it is important to choose a reputable manufacturer - be it for classic locks or digital ones. However I will say, that digital locks usually have a classical backup. So that gives an attacker just one mor option to defeat the lock.

    CoughingwithCoffee , to nostupidquestions in Are smart door locks more or less secure than traditional door locks?

    I feel sorry for my neighbor who has to repeat whatever phrase his smartlock accepts over and over while being locked out of his house.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I got a lock pick set and was pretty happy learning how to pick all the locks in my house. So I ran out to a hardware store to buy more padlocks and some other stuff. Come in the house and noticed I left the bag of padlocks I bought in my car. Go out to my car and noticed I forgot my keys. Head back and my door is locked. Locked out of my house and car. Through the window I can see my lock picking set on the kitchen table, mocking me.

    I have decided to never share this story with my wife.

    Chickenstalker ,

    Was it “mellon”?

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