A) The only way to control access to this feature is to lock down and phone home. If it doesn’t phone home then when someone figures out a way around your present security its possible for someone to sell said features forever. Such DRM could hurt repeatability by accident or more likely on purpose.
B) There is no reason to fail open so even if BMW is still chugging when they stop taking your cars phone calls and retires those servers you get no more feature.
C) The amount spent over the lifespan of a car wherein people opt to take care of their valuable asset absolutely dwarfs the cost able to be extracted up front
D) This functionality opens the door to a hacker not just turning off your features but turning off your car. This includes state sponsored attackers and people who are just generally pissed off at the geopolitical actions of your country of origin. If you are in the US that is a lot of fucking people.
E) Product segmentation on average increases the amount you can extract per user. Allowing segmentation by features turn on or off in software by the month it allows far greater segmentation with no reasonable expectation that the baseline will be lower. This means the lowest end user of a model pays the same for even less. The median user pays somewhat more and the max user pays a LOT more.
F) This means wholly paid for used cars now come with a car payment to the manufacturer.
Now there are half a hundred people on the boards of these companies and 338M of us in the US. 449M in the EU. There is no reason to allow this misfeature to continue to be a thing in our markets. If automakers don’t like those restrictions any one of them can opt to most of the most valuable markets in the world and find their fortunes exclusively in China while their competitors eat their former marketshare.
All of it is a reason for people to vote not to allow it. This can be accomplished federally or via initiatives in states. If a handful states comprising 30-50% of the pop wont allow it then it will be dead.
BMW, soon: “Warning - you are almost out of your free braking credits for this month! Purchase additional BMW Premium Gems that can be exchanget for braking credits at the rate of 13.7 to 1 and into acceleration credits at the rate of 12.864 to 1 now, or activate the Braking Unlimited subscription to receive unlimited braking credits and a chance to win 4 free hours of air conditioning!”
MBA mode: Why is accelerating more expensive than braking? Let’s flip that pricing around! Let people put the pedal to the metal and then gauge out their eyes when they realize they will need to stop!
In what way does the suspension require regular servicing or an online connection to a server to function? That would be the only reason to offer it as an ongoing service cost.
Otherwise, you’re just paying extra for something already in your car, not for an actual service, which would make no sense?
What next, paint ongoing service fees for having wheels? Not even for ensuring they’re regularly replaced, serviced, or repaired, just for the ability to use them at all…
Active suspension is software, just like Photoshop is. You need to pay subscription fee for Photoshop now, and BMW wants a subscription fee for their active suspension software too. Rent seeking and Enshittification.
Except that you have to have special way more expensive shocks to have adaptive suspension compared to fixed. It’s like being sold an I3 CPU for the price of an I9 cpu while being told you can pay a subscription to upgrade to the full performance
And BMW is one of the most valuable car brands out there. I don’t get why you’re pretending that BMW is some unknown entity. Unfortunately, many people will swallow BMW’s bullshit.
I feel like in this case it’s more like everyone gets sold i9 hardware, but can choose to pay the i3 price for it with locked out features, then decide later to pay the subscription to unlock the i7 or i9 performance. It has advantages for the manufacturer in that there are fewer options to account for at build time and additional revenue later on. I still think it’s a terrible model that should be summarily rejected by customers, but I see why they are trying it.
Yeah they’re totally not charging you for the expensive suspension they’re installing in your car in the hopes that you’ll pay a subscription to use it. 100% not included in the price, clearly no one would ever do that
At least with Photoshop (as bad as the model is), at least they are actually running the software and storing and backing up the associated data for it.
With the car, it’s all local to the car without BMW having to incur any expense for that functionality to keep going.
We long left the era where we “own” things that we buy. As everything is a computer now it has become very simple to control stuff that remotely that was working on its own before.
So the answer to “why would <CORPORATION> do this” is simply: “Because they can”.
Every tiny decision is guided by increasing profit. No matter the side effects (short or long term ). Because with many shareholders administering pressure to maximize profits there’s only one way to go (even if it’s a dumb and shortsighted decision) maximizing profits NOW. If you are not doing that because you can see that increasing profits now will hurt profits in the future then you are hindering the project. You have to increase profits now, because if you are not then your competitor is doing it and that is a problem. If you are not going with the project you will be out of a job sooner or later. Then someone will take over that will make the decision you couldn’t do.
This is a race to the bottom. Morals, integrity, honesty, responsibility and foresight are only obstacles in this logic (because the competition is not bound by them which gains them an advantage).
It’s simply cheaper now to build everything in the car always and run an operating system that manages all these things and can control what you are doing in your car.
Cory Doctorow held a great keynote about this some ~10-ish years (?) ago with the title “The coming war on general computation” where he explained the side effects of putting DRM in every stupid appliance. The side effect here is that we cannot hack our cars to switch on the heated seats (or whatever other feature BMW is not allowing us to use for free) because of DRM. It is not “our” car, even though we bought it.
This is a side effect of deregulation of both corporations and the stock market. I think that we’re going to see the pendulum swing towards more regulation and consumer-friendly policies here in the US. I don’t see that lasting for the long-term, though. There are too many vulnerabilities in the political system that allow asshole billionaires to manipulate it.
Imagine suffering an accident and having to pay a plus because of a feature you can’t even use on the parts you replace. I feel this is non-competitive bullshit that is following the trend Elon Musk started, although it probably started much earlier.
How about you just stop consoooming. There will always be cars without this and if there aren’t: there are more sustainable modes of transportation anyways.
Not like I’d ever own their overpriced garbage in the first place. I’ve worked on them (since the 70’s), they’re over-hyped trash from a durability standpoint. And how they put things together makes maintenance a nightmare.
They could learn a lot from Japan, who’s worst brands are far better
This is why I don’t mourn Western car companies getting slaughtered by Chinese EVs. They can’t really provide value by nickel and diming customers with subscriptions for components already installed on their privacy-invading overpriced cars.
One of the reasons electric cars were able to outcompete ICE-specialized companies is because they undercut on all sorts of nice to haves like buttons and pieces that they forgo by using a screen, wifi, updates, beta testing.
But they don’t pass on those cost savings to you. They are even sold as luxury products. They even take the carbon credits. That’s bullshit if you are serious about mainstream adoption.
You do realize all car companies do scummy things? BYD along with others uses parts serialization so you can’t install any parts unless BYD installs it for you an updates the software to take the new serial number.
I think you’re thinking of Xiaomi, Louis Rossman did a video assuming they were doing Apple-style serialization but all it was doing was blocking installation of self-driving if the headlights weren’t standard. It wasn’t DRMing brake pads or preventing buying headlights from a junkyard, there was a functional reason.
This “tech crowd” and “you folks” dichotomy is not helpful at all. Tell people how they can help, volunteer, donate etc, don’t wedge gaps between the same class fighting against the same ruling class. I’m a software engineer. I write open source software. I get that it’s tiring and you can see the worst in people when doing it, but we’re going to have to be better than that if we want to change things.
And for those reading like the top commenter, don’t sit on your hands and wait for “tech folks” to figure stuff out. It’s us vs. corporate greed, not “us hoping the tech folks save us from corporate greed” or “us tech folks being badgered like we should be some saviors against corporate greed.” Write your representatives to tell them this isn’t ok. Be mindful in your selection when you purchase a vehicle. Ask your tech savvy friends and family what you can do to help. You aren’t helpless in this, and as OP said, just sitting and waiting for something to be fixed or changed doesn’t help the overall goal.
What exactly do you propose the “normies” do? Is there some non-corporation making road-worthy cars? No? Let me guess, you want a family of 5 to bike 2 hours to the nearest school/park/grocery store in the snow on rural roads with no shoulder just to avoid paying a corporation? Take the nonexistent train?
let me just say this: if facebook were known to be doing the shit it does today in 2002, it wouldnt have fucking flied, because normies trusted people more than they did corporations.
no need to make up that huge strawman when you could have properly read what i bothered to type out.
I wrote it as a tongue in cheek against the OP that said “…I really hope the tech crowd is working on jailbreaking this garbage”.
Surprise surprise, that comment is sitting with 49 upvotes 1 downvote, mine that you admonish is on 27 upvotes 13 downvotes.
This kind of proves the point. The “tech crowd” doesn’t owe you anything. [email protected], you don’t know how much of my personal and professional life I have spent fully on open source.
Get up your feet and talk with your family, representatitives. Legislate this shit away. Nobody accepts food products that dont have a recipe or with unknown ingredients. Nobody accepts engineering projects without plans. Demand open source and interoperability.
That would be the ultimate way to stop this. Let them put the hardware in, and then not make a cent off it, because a third party enables it for the customer.
I’m never buying a BMW again. I had an electric i3 which had an inverter (charger) failure. BMW wanted €12k to fix it. Thankfully an independent offered to do it for 4K. But BMW still wanted 3K just to plug it in and authenticate the new block. Nothing else, just “bless” it. Made the fix cost-prohibitive so we just had to scrap the car. The battery, which most people fear, was fine on this 8 year old car.
Luxury car dealers do that all the time. The Volvo dealership quoted me $2800 to get my car to pass inspection, about $1500 of which was just tires.
I got a set of tires from Costco for like $800, and then an independent mechanic said everything else was fine and charged me $100 for inspection and emissions.
I know, but in the past the independent dealers didn’t have to deal directly with BMW for fixes. Now with all the authentication needed you can’t just get a replacement part from anywhere any more. Similar to how Apple locked down its batteries, BMW is doing the same.
The problem is that once one manufacturer starts doing this, they’ll all do it, so you won’t even have the option of buying a new car without a subscription.
CarPlay I can see if there’s an ongoing cost of making sure future Apple updates don’t break compatibility, but it’s very highly unlikely that will ever be an issue.
Or just drive through the dealership’s front window and then declare “I’d like a refund, please”. A few of these occurring nationwide and they’d halt their bullshit.
I’m glad my current car is a 2015 Mazda. It’s recent enough to have a touch screen and Bluetooth, but not so recent that it’s got an LTE/5G radio that can phone home and let them sell my driving data to insurance companies or force subscription payments on me. When I get my next car in a decade or so, hopefully I can import a cheap Chinese EV that’s either easy to jailbreak, or doesn’t have any of that bullshit included.
The problem is a huge number of cars were removed and destroyed which would otherwise have been in the used market. It’s a big reason why even used cars are priced so high. Buying used isn’t what it used to be.
Agree with that yep, its also already been shown years ago that modding used cars into electric cars is totally doable, economic and saves fuckloads of resources. Same thing happening with tractors too btw. Lots of farmers are buying up old tractors because they can actually repair them on site when they break down. With modern ones they have to wait for some asshole from john deer to come in with a debugging laptop to do the exact same thing for lots of money and downtime.
While this is completely true, it’s a bit tone-deaf. Fuck cars, but many people barely have a choice because their public transport consists of a handful of busses that come once an hour and nothing is close by.
As an aside, I spend a whopping total of about $1/day (edit Australian $, so less USD) on maintenance and electricity for my electric cargo bike. I go about 17 km each way to work and the funny thing is it’s only about 10 mins longer than driving, lol
Yeah i know many people dont really have much of a choice, see the thread nex to your comment. I was more intending to talk shit about modern cars that all seem to have this shit.
I was a BMW mechanic from 2009-2012. I can’t believe anyone buys them after what I’ve seen. The engines are all made of plastic and start to literally crumble to pieces and leak oil from absolutely everywhere after ~70k miles. We had to have customers sign disclosures on these cars because inevitably they would just crumble to pieces when we went in to replace one part and we’d end up having to replace others to reassemble it. Or we would pressure-test the cooling system to find a leak and end up creating several more.
On their V8s there’s a plastic cooling tube that runs from front to back on the engine. The tube itself is like $10 but you had to disassemble the entire engine to access it so it would cost several thousand $ in labor.
We eventually started selling an aftermarket CNC aluminum one that was threaded and expanded into the hole. We would just beat the old one out with a hammer and thread the new one in in a couple hours and they’d never have that problem again. Why BMW couldn’t think of that is beyond me. The people who did made buckets of money selling aluminum tubes for hundreds of dollars just because they could.
You might expect cost cutting like that from a Kia or something but not from a car that’s advertised as a premium brand and sold at premium prices.
The Buick 3800 had a tube like that on top, it would crack from thermal stresses and piss out hot coolant. There was an aluminum aftermarket replacement like you describe but it was Dorman and a cheap fix. Buick also addressed the problem in later versions. I miss that engine.
I used to own a W124 series Benz (bought used for 5% of sticker price, I ain’t no fauntelroy). Nearly everything on it was redundant or excessively skookum.
When systems that weren’t as rugged started going down, like the vacuum controllers for doors or the 4matic computer etc, the car still worked safely with reduced convenience. A few minor design flaws like the wiring harness but that’s it. Room to work under the hood, too.
It was built in '93 when the engineers still ran the company.
Current main driver is the super reliable '03 CRV.
I was charged 150$ to enable the recording feature of the local, built in cameras on my car… All the recording happens locally and nothing is sent to the cloud… Literally paid to use what I already had… Yay capitalism
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