people please actually read the article not the headline; this is literally about accessibility improvements for blind and visually impaired people for generating alt text inside of documents and pdfs.
people please actually read the article not the headline; this is literally about accessibility improvements for blind and visually impaired people for generating alt text inside of documents and pdfs.
It doesn’t just read the page to them, which is a solved problem, it generates descriptions when they’re missing, making the web more accessible.
Just curious, how do you translate things? I know Mozilla recently did some local translation stuff in-browser, but what about before? Is there a good competitor to Google Translate?
Many of the people complaining about a feature they would just disable and never use are also the same kinds of people who would complain about basic accessibility features and call them “unnecessary bloat”.
That’s one of the things, but it’s also adding a dedicated sidebar for AI. That’s the sort of thing that should just be an extension, there’s absolutely no reason at all why that needs to be something built into the browser.
Developers should be providing alt text themselves, but in cases where they aren’t having a local image recognition model running to provide a description isn’t terrible as long as it’s either 100% local or completely opt-in.
The dedicated sidebar on the other hand feels very much like a cheap attempt to cash in on the AI fad.
That’s the sort of thing that should just be an extension
It most likely is on the technical level, just shipped by default and integrated into standard settings instead of the add-on ones. And it’s going to be opt-in, so you won’t have to go into about:config to disable it. Speaking of: You’re looking for extensions.pocket.enabled, it should be false. And before you say “muh diskspace” it’s probably like 5k of js and css or such.
access their preferred AI service from the Firefox sidebar to summarize information, simplify language, or test their knowledge, all without leaving their current web page.
Our initial offering will include ChatGPT, Google Gemini, HuggingChat, and Le Chat Mistral
How long does AI need to be used, and how much demand needs to be sustained, for it to stop being called a "buzzword"? I'm a little dubious that NVIDIA became literally the most highly-valued company on Earth off the back of a mere "buzzword."
AI may have its uses, but the easy counterpoint to your argument is to look at FTX at its peak and where it is now (bankrupt). The stock exchange is the exact opposite of rational, and is terrible at estimating the use one can get out of tech.
Can you reminds us what the current state of NFTs is? Or most crypto? Web3 tech? This is next.
Of course Nvidia are the highest-valued company. They capitalized on idiots misusing the technology, until it created issues in society, for personal gain.
Crypto is doing kind-of ok. But what about other blockchain apps and startups, or blockchain integrations into every tech imaginable? There were so many popping up, just like there are with AI now. Business models and use-cases that are based solely on the hype of the tech in question, without any consideration about whether it’s actually a good fit for the tech. That is the point, and what it has common with AI and other “buzzwords”.
How do any of those things have anything to do with LLMs? You’re just listing a bunch of random tech that isn’t particularly impactful and claiming that another unrelated thing must be a failure.
Why are you explicitly picking those examples, and not things like IoT, DevOps and Edge computing, all buzzwords, all successful and still in general existence today?
You’re cherry picking failed buzzwords and using them as proof that “AI” will fail.
To be clear, I agree that LLMs are bullshit for 95% of applications they are being put into. But at least argue in good faith.
I chose those examples, because that’s what’s been heavily marketed recently, and it all either fundamentally failed, ended up being a scam, or both.
In contrast:
devops is software automation practices…?
edge computing is on-call load balancing? It’s horrendously expensive though, so i’ll give them time to figure it out
IoT, admittedly, is largely oversold, but even then, there were a ton of products on the market that absolutely outlived all 3 of the examples i’ve given, combined. HomeAssistant+Zigbee home automation is awesome. A raspberryPi is “iot”. Your smartwatch is “iot”.
There’s a difference between cherry-picking, and refusing to accept that something is a scam. Crypto ended up begging for government regulation, when the original intention was to move away from it. NFTs are a pump-and-dump ponzi scheme. web3 literally doesn’t mean anything
LLMs aren’t a scam, I don’t even understand how you could twist it into such. While something like NFTs have no real legitimate use case, LLMs excel at translation and as an advanced form of spelling and grammar checking.
Your complaint seems to boil down to “it doesn’t work in all use cases it’s being used” which is fair enough, but if I put a car on my bed and try to use it as a blanket… does that make it a scam?
We literally agree with each other, and yet you’re still arguing. The reason why it’s a scam, is because people sell it like some kind of a godsend, when it’s literally not used in the way it is intended to be used. When it is, that’s great. When it’s trained properly, that’s even better. But that’s not the reality
I made a generalization based on the abundance of comments from people saying they don’t want AI. Your desires may not be the desires of the majority of users.
Or maybe it’s just a common fallacy. Like argumentum ad populum.
It’s not. Saying a bunch of people don’t want something because a bunch of people are saying they don’t want it isn’t argumentum ad populum. I never made an assessment about whether AI was good or bad.
If you want to argue that Lemmy doesn’t represent users at large, or that the people complaining about AI are a loud minority, go for it. But the vast majority of comments on anything AI related seem opposed to it.
Using the comments from Lemmy is clearly a case of selection bias. It would be like running a poll at a gym to see how many people think exercise is important. Or asking lemmy users if Linux is better than Windows. “The people I hang around have the same opinion as me” isn’t really a good litmus test for “does this actually represent public opinion.”
I’m with you on this one. I love Lemmy, but it’s a small community here and skews towards a very specific foss tech nerd demographic that doesn’t represent the general population in any way. It seems like most users are aware of that but not everybody is self-aware enough to realize that. I like trying out AI features, I like to see them be integrated into software so they can be more useful. They’re not perfect at all but just because they’re not perfect doesn’t mean they should be abandoned in their entirety.
Can I ask areal question? I’m not trying to be a dick or smart ass, I legit don’t get this. What is bullshit here? I read the article and it seems like a useful feature to me.
“this week, we will launch an opt-in experiment”
“those who have opted-in will have the option to access their preferred AI service from the Firefox sidebar”
Is this opt in only feature really terrible? Because as a user of ai, not switching tabs sounds like a nice new feature to me.
I strongly believe that generative AI is catastrophically misused in the vast majority of its applications, so in my eyes, adding gpt-based AI to the browser is largely a wasted effort
I highly doubt they have one team that switches between experiments and bug fixes, never doing two things at once. Not to mention that something ultimately being ripped out isn’t necessarily wasted effort. They could likely easily pivot virtually anything they put into this specific experiment into any number of other uses.
No, llamafile Is local, and it could do multiple search engine for you, or skip results contained in the first pages which are usually only ads or there because they pay to be there. And it could start searching the fediverse too
Know what’s even more opt in? An official extension. Installed only if someone wants it.
I switched to LibreWolf and Mull a few months ago in preparation for this. I’ll come back to Firefox if the investors pull their collective heads from their asses.
So it isn’t even local private AI but rather just an Interface for NOT-private LLMs like ChatGPT (which specifically stated, at least at first, that all your queries to it and their responses are being monitored and saved by OpenAI)
AI as in machine learning? No I dont think that’s bad. It’s a very useful technology that we’ve already been using for decades in a bunch of different fields. But I’m assuming you’re referring to LLMs which are what’s being integrated into Firefox.
I would argue that LLMs ARE bad. For multiple reasons. At least the big ones run by these giant tech companies.
If you’re locally running one with training data provided by you then I don’t see an issue with that really. (except maybe energy consumption issues. Though I don’t imagine a personal use LLM run locally would draw anywhere near the energy that something like Chat Gpt is drawing.)
I’m very much on the side that believes that what these LLM models do essentially boils down to theft/plagiarism though. So if you disagree with that you may disagree that LLMs are bad.
I did. I’m not needing to switch. At least not right now. (hence the ‘may’ in my original comment) But given the Laura Chambers interim CEO thing and now this LLM integration. Mozilla seems to be making moves that I don’t agree with. But as long as they stay true to their key tennents I won’t need to switch. Which would be good. Because I really don’t want to. But I’ve seen a enough good companies become bad companies that I’m weary for the future of the app. So being aware of what alternatives may be out there would be helpful.
I highly recommend everyone making the switch to LibreWolf. It’s a custom version of Firefox that focuses on the things that matter like privacy and security, while cutting out the annoyances that Mozilla loves to add to their browsers.
Our initial offering will include ChatGPT, Google Gemini, HuggingChat, and Le Chat Mistral, but we will continue adding AI services that meet our standards for quality and user experience.
Is that the same Mozilla that started the Joint Statement on AI Safety and Openness?
What in living hell do proprietary and predatory AI services even doing here?
Mozilla just offered users to feed into the very abomination they claim to fight.
Also, for all things “AI”, local is the only way to go if you ever want to have a chance at privacy.
Whether it’s a local or a cloud-based model, if you want to use AI, we think you should have the freedom to use (or not use) the tools that best suit your needs.
Ok it doesnt say it directly but you can see where i got it from
Not going to lie, AI can be a very powerfull tool but the “we want your browsing experience to be divine, but don’t worry we have your back” scares me shitless. Firefox has always had our backs, why do they feel the need to mention it now? Maybe I’m being paranoid but I feel like a browser shoulf just be a browser.
It’s been going in a less friendly direction for a while. Embedding of mandatory useless extensions, aggressive advertising, deals to display more and more content to more users, disregard for user settings on multiple updates, opt-out telemetry, and now telling you that you’re using it wrong.
Sure, you can navigate through various settings to disable most of these, and check back on updates for settings that toggles back, or are simply renamed and mysteriously got back to their default, intrusive value. But we should not have to do that.
And that’s not even touching the issue with the Mozilla Corporation itself.
Firefox is the alternative browser, but it certainly isn’t there to “have your back”.
I think it makes sense. I like ChatGPT and I appreciate having easy access to it. What I really wish is the option to use local models instead. I realize most people don’t have machines that can tokenize quickly enough but for those that do…
Whether it’s a local or a cloud-based model, if you want to use AI, we think you should have the freedom to use (or not use) the tools that best suit your needs
The new CEO of Mozilla, Laura Chambers, has a background working at all sorts of evil companies like AirBnB and PayPal. Its absolutely no surprise that the company immediately dropped plans to diversify in ethical, unique and privacy friendly ways as soon as she joined.
CEOs getting paid primarily in stock means grifters like this will drop their USP for whatever trend makes the line go up, if it is crypto, NFTs, or AI.
Looks like the “local AI only” idea was purged in favor of some Big Tech stuff that can give Mozilla some fat cash for promoting their services! Mozilla’s second (or third idk at this point lol) downfall is looking really strong with all their recent decisions. WebKit is another independent engine that still doesn’t seem to suck in terms of enshittification but it’s basically not used anywhere except Apple ecosystem. Chromium is getting a full monopoly yay.
Well I’m guessing they actually did testing on local AI using a 4GB and 8GB RAM laptop and realized it would be an awful user experience. It’s just too slow.
I do self host several AI applications for myself on a low end device and I think for most lowend even mid devices local AI is unfeasible. Nowadays is too much resource heavy and times are too long without high end devices.
For my computer generating a description of a picture (one of the firefox new features) could easily take up to 5-10 minutes with the cpu at 100%. That’s just not viable for doing while browsing.
Anyway I would love for firefox to open source the server side of this. So in case someone have s computer powerful enough they could do it locally if they want to.
WebKit does exist for Linux, Gnome Web has been quite a nice experience however it still lacks support for most extensions (however some Firefox extensions do work). The real world performance is still a bit lacking but its close to Firefox on paper and as it continues to update I will probably swap to it. For now its a nice way for me to test if my websites will break on macs (spoiler, WebKit still lacks some stuff).
I know about that. I used to use Epiphany myself. The problem is that it’s unpopular, still not nearly as good as the other options and there’s no cross-platform support. The last one is a big problem because 90% of the market uses Android or Windows.
Cross platform and popular I agree with. Having it in a state where it could be the default for gnome distros would help with popularity. However I think at least in latest versions its pretty comparable to other browsers at least Firefox. Main issue is there isn’t as much extensions that work with it. Considering the pace it is improving though I think it won’t be long till it could be viable alternative at least on Linux, maybe it might get ported some day idk.
I have a pretty slow machine and GNOME Web is unusable on it. The performance is not comparable to Firefox or Chromium. Extensions are very important for regular people apparently (judging from old Firefox Play Store reviews). Also Firefox and its derivatives are known for advanced privacy features that GNOME Web doesn’t have and likely will never have because GNOME is about extreme simplicity by all costs.
I like GNOME Web and I really can see myself installing it on an old person’s computer because of awesomely simple UI. But it’s not for most people and I’m afraid that without commercial support there won’t be any good regular browsers based on WebKit. I wish engine-specific features didn’t exist. Everything would be so simple without them.
That’s fair, I haven’t tried it on low end/older hardware. I only just found performance good enough in the 46 release so I’ve only tested on my high and middle end system. I have some n200 hardware arriving soon and I might give it a go on that.
Advanced privacy and security I agree with and that’s the main reason I don’t use it daily personally. I think better extension support would be a good step in enhancing that even if they keep the base simple. There is also non trivial issues such as fingerprinting which is going to be a lot easier on a browser with so little users.
Firefox does currently have a few more options and I don’t see Gnome Web getting that ootb any time soon. Granted half of firefox’s options these days is to disable telemetry from Mozilla, the actual user exposed options isn’t huge (outside of about:config). Gnome does have gsettings which could serve a similar usage as already seen with enabling web extensions.
I don’t think it will be mainstream any time soon not until Linux is or they support other oses. But I want to be optimistic on how it will be for Linux usage especially with the tablet and mobile scene starting to take shape and Gnome Web being one of the most viewport responsive browsers.
If you are so keen to know, then you will just have to wait a few more years. Firefoxes development is rapidly derailing into nonsense recently. They will have to either kick out their current leadership or they will be reduced to a data sucking, adware company sooner or later.
Oh yes, as opposed to Google or Microsoft who definitely aren’t already data-sucking, predatory adware companies. No thanks, I’ll stick with the lesser evil.
If you’re going to lie to everyone at least make it sound believable.
Do you read any tech news? If so how did u miss every single mozilla headline of the past months? Something being the lesser evil doesnt turn truths into lies.
At least this is opt-in, and Firefox still allows for manifest v3 extensions, and, on the whole, isn’t using a engine funded by a billion dollar company that’s doing everything in it’s power to spy on you.
Yeah i was kinda overreacting but it really isnt looking good for firefoxes future at this point imo. As long as its open source there will at least be forks like librewolf.
Yeah idk either sadly. But i know that having only two relevant browsers on the market is like the US party system. Destined to fail.
Nothing lasts forever just like Steam or anything else will one day turn to shit. But pretending like everything is fine will just lead to lots of “we shouldve seen it coming”.
blog.mozilla.org
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