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athos77 , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California

Okay, I read the article and it's really left me with more questions, and with minimal indication that this is actually a Chinese government-run biolab in the US. I'd like more information before making a decision on that.

LordOfTheChia , (edited )

It’s because the article is withholding information* to “guide” the viewer towards conspiratorial explanations. Especially with lines like this:

What China’s lab was targeting with so many dangerous pathogens remains a mystery

Meanwhile, elsewhere, this was already answered:

apnews.com/…/california-biolab-covid19-test-kits-…

The Chinese owner of an unauthorized central California lab that fueled conspiracy theories about China and biological weapons has been arrested on charges of not obtaining the proper permits to manufacture tests for COVID-19, pregnancy and HIV, and mislabeling some of the kits.

Also note, the OP article is not originally from AOL. AOL is quoting another article from a “Scripps News”, practically in its entirety without any additional journalism on their part. If they had done any journalism, they would have found the AP article I linked with more info or the DoJ article on the charges that were brought up.

Edit:

This story broke in July 25, 2023:

midvalleytimes.com/…/investigation-on-reedley-bui…

investigators discovered that one room of the warehouse was used to produce COVID-19 and pregnancy tests

  • Note, the words “test” or “tests” do not appear anywhere in the OP article.
athos77 ,

The thing that really irritated me was the bit about "ooh, they're using equipment from China, that proves it!" I mean, no shit? Find me a lab, an office, a home, anything manmade in the US that doesn't have something made in China in it :/

LordOfTheChia ,

Even in doctors offices. I had researched and bought pulse oximeters a few years ago (mainly on ali express).

You start to see the same designs with different branding as they’re made by only a very few companies in China.

Since then I can recognize the same ones in use at every doctor appointment I’ve been at.

Maeve ,

Oh wow. Thanks for due diligence.

Maeve ,

Iirc, USA and China have labs in which they collaborate, in both nations. I’m wondering if this is one of those labs, and what exactly our governments are getting up to?

LordOfTheChia , (edited ) to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California

There’s been updates and charges:

apnews.com/…/california-biolab-covid19-test-kits-…

The Chinese owner of an unauthorized central California lab that fueled conspiracy theories about China and biological weapons has been arrested on charges of not obtaining the proper permits to manufacture tests for COVID-19, pregnancy and HIV, and mislabeling some of the kits.

justice.gov/…/operator-central-california-bio-lab…

Edit: Original discovery article was from July 25, 2023:

midvalleytimes.com/…/investigation-on-reedley-bui…

investigators discovered that one room of the warehouse was used to produce COVID-19 and pregnancy tests

Jessvj93 , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California

Were they stealing serum? Like Bovine serum and sending it to China? That’s the only guess I can reasonably make.

LordOfTheChia ,

Looks like they were manufacturing unapproved tests for various diseases:

apnews.com/…/california-biolab-covid19-test-kits-…

loganberryq , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California

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  • RePsyche ,

    He is a common family name in China. Pronounced more like Huh.

    tsonfeir , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    I’m more shocked this is AOL.com

    Buffaloaf ,

    There are still people that use AOL email addresses

    SkyezOpen ,

    And they should schedule a colonoscopy.

    aeronmelon ,

    I don’t know what the actual number is, but I’ll bet the amount of people still unknowingly paying for America Online dial-up service is shocking.

    DigitalTraveler42 ,

    It’s old AF news and Scripps News is the one doing the reporting, AOL, like MSN and Yahoo, and the Hill, just rehosts “news” articles, they have no actual journalists on staff, just “news” outlets that pay them to be on their front page.

    Also this place wasn’t a “Wuhan lab” it was a medical test manufacturer that also had a shitload of bio waste onsite that needs to be cleaned up as it’s a threat to public health.

    LordOfTheChia , (edited )

    Almost a month ago that charges were brought up. Interesting that this article from 3 days ago is claiming so many unknowns and mystery about this facility since it’s really old news and most of those questions have been answered:

    justice.gov/…/operator-central-california-bio-lab…

    The original discovery was made 4.5 months ago:

    nbcnews.com/…/officials-believe-fresno-warehouse-…

    Edit: This might be the original news source that broke the story:

    midvalleytimes.com/…/investigation-on-reedley-bui…

    DigitalTraveler42 ,

    Yeah it definitely comes across as clickbait for the tinfoil hats.

    LordOfTheChia ,

    It definitely is. They go out of their way to avoid mentioning that they discovered they were making testing kits for various infectious diseases (which explains why you’d want samples of said diseases).

    This information was in the original report that broke the story and the in the charging report:

    justice.gov/…/arrest-made-central-california-bio-…

    According to court documents, between December 2020 and March 2023, Zhu and others manufactured, imported, sold, and distributed hundreds of thousands of COVID-19 test kits, in addition to test kits for HIV, pregnancy, clinical urinalysis, and other conditions in the United States and China.

    As I mentioned in a comment below, the word “test” appears nowhere in the “Scripps News” report.

    LinkOpensChest_wav , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California
    @LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

    “Our local politicians are out there terming it Wuhan 2.0,” said Reedley City Manager Nicole Zieba.

    Living in Reedley must be a trip with people like that in charge. I watched the whole video, and everyone interviewed seemed wack.

    Jaysyn , to news in 'Shock after shock': A visit to China's secret biolab in California
    @Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

    Isn't this is pretty much what Russia accused the USA of doing in Ukraine?

    irreticent OP ,
    @irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes:

    “Russia has claimed without any evidence that biological weapons are being developed in laboratories in Ukraine with support from the United States.”

    HerrBeter ,

    Another projection? “I said it first so now you are the culprit”

    squiblet ,
    @squiblet@kbin.social avatar

    The Russian state isn’t exactly a reliable source of information about Ukraine or the US. They also claimed the Ukrainian government were Nazis.

    SkyezOpen ,

    Not to mention the 3 day special military operation that is 653 days past schedule.

    CmdrShepard ,

    Well they were found to have multiple copies of The Sims in their possession.

    DigitalTraveler42 ,

    This is old AF and the only thing really going on with this place is that the people running it were disgusting pigs who could care less about bio waste disposal regulations, this place needed to be shutdown because it was a public health threat.

    girlfreddy ,
    @girlfreddy@lemmy.world avatar

    It never should have been active in the first place.

    I have to wonder who is in charge of monitoring medical supply orders entering from China, and who’s watching over businesses that have dozens of shell companies that are able to run bio weapons’ manufacturing on foreign soil?

    This is some scary shit.

    DigitalTraveler42 ,

    It’s absolutely not a bio weapons lab. It’s a COVID test manufacturing facility, they had a horribly ran research facility that was not properly disposing of their bio waste that they used for their research. So basically they weren’t properly disposing of the COVID samples that they were using for their research for creating the COVID testing equipment that they were manufacturing. There is nothing scary about except corporate and foreign disregard for rules and regulations in something pertaining to public health, this company should be barred from operating in California and the greater US as well as other WHO sponsored nations.

    The story is months old and this is basically just clickbait for the conspiracy chucklefucks.

    girlfreddy ,
    @girlfreddy@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s a COVID test manufacturing facility

    Unlicensed at the city, state and federal level. The 1000 mice were bioengineered to grow COVID antibodies but (the CDC also) found “infectious agents in the refrigerators including E. coli, coronavirus, malaria, hepatitis B and C, dengue, chlamydia, human herpes, rubella and HIV.” Source

    PrinceWith999Enemies ,

    I’m not sure. Was Ukraine accused of manufacturing at-home test kits outside of FDA regulations?

    irreticent OP ,
    @irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

    Does Ukraine even have an FDA?

    PrinceWith999Enemies ,

    That was a joke. That’s what the Chinese lab was doing, so if the Russians were looking for biolabs like this one, that’s what they were looking for.

    itsonlygeorge , to world in Latest peace talks between Ethiopia's government and Oromo militants break up without an agreement

    Aol.com is still alive after all these years!?

    BigBlackCockroach OP ,
    @BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world avatar

    Wait, you are not using AOL online? how do you connect to the internet? /s

    itsonlygeorge ,

    I had to setup up my grandfather’s new computer with aol, even though he was connected via a cable modem that was always on anyway. That was a throwback for sure.

    BigBlackCockroach OP ,
    @BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world avatar

    I always saw those compact disks they must have been handing out by the millions. What were those used for? just a software package?

    itsonlygeorge ,

    Yes. It was a promotional CD with the installer for the aol program and access phone numbers for dial up.

    They typically gave you a month or some amount of free hours as a promotion.

    There were millions of them sent out to encourage people to get on the internet at a time when home PCs were still relatively uncommon and internet more so.

    There is an ancient meme of a throne made entirely of ail CDs from the dark ages of the internet.

    boingboing.net/2006/…/howto-build-a-glowin.html

    Kodemystic , to technology in Fugees rapper says lawyer's use of AI helped tank his case, pushes for new trial
    @Kodemystic@lemmy.kodemystic.dev avatar

    That dude on the right looks like low tier android or somethin.

    Piecemakers3Dprints ,
    @Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world avatar

    Low-tier cosmetic alterations at bargain prices tend to have that result, I guess?

    BowtiesAreCool ,

    He looks like the alien from Star Trek Insurrection that is obsessed with being young forever and stretches his skin out

    Rooty ,

    Yeah, I never though actual humans could fall into the uncanny valley.

    coffeebiscuit , to technology in Fugees rapper says lawyer's use of AI helped tank his case, pushes for new trial

    That gray dude also looks ai generated.

    Salamendacious OP ,
    @Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

    Weekend at Bernie’s 12?

    6daemonbag ,

    He looks like the mangled villain in Red Dragon. You know, the guy Hannibal the Cannibal fucked up with a piece of glass?

    Ildar ,
    @Ildar@lemmy.world avatar

    githyanki!

    Candelestine , to technology in Fugees rapper says lawyer's use of AI helped tank his case, pushes for new trial

    … aol still exists…? Huh. TIL.

    Salamendacious OP ,
    @Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh how the mighty have fallen

    givesomefucks , to technology in Fugees rapper says lawyer's use of AI helped tank his case, pushes for new trial

    I saw an article from ars that tracked the AI company down, it’s registered to the same office as the lawyer, and immediately started advertising this case bragging about it being used in an actual trial, no mention of how much it fucked up and the client was guilty.

    He’s got a pretty good shot at this, and the lawyer should 100% face consequences. Even if he just used it, but especially if he owns the AI company he used. Doubly so for not disclosing the connection or informing the client it was being used.

    Touching_Grass ,

    But how do you tell if the AI performed worse or better than the lawyer. What is the bar here for competence. What if it was a losing case regardless and this is just a way to exploit the system for a second trial.

    Salamendacious OP ,
    @Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s what the appeals process is for.

    logicbomb ,

    I don’t know about this particular lawyer, but I have heard that some lawyers will try novel court strategies, knowing that it’s a win-win situation. If the strategy works, then their clients benefit, and if the strategy doesn’t work, their clients get an appeal for having ineffective counsel where they normally wouldn’t have an appeal.

    Salamendacious OP ,
    @Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

    I had never heard that. Is there a name for that? Or do you have a place I can read more about it?

    Neato ,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    If a client gets an appeal for ineffective counsel how is that counsel not brought up before the bar for review? That seems like a death knell for a lawyer.

    Spiralvortexisalie ,

    Not sure if there is a procedure for when a lawyer is practicing, I have never heard of a bar referral after a ruling on a motion for ineffective assistance in NY, but I have heard of retiring attorneys landing on the grenade so to speak and writing affidavits claiming that anything they may have touched in the slightest was somehow deficient, spoiled or tainted by their involvement if it can get a shot at more billable work/appeal.

    logicbomb ,

    People don’t generally get sanctioned for making honest mistakes. I didn’t say that a lawyer would tank the case on purpose, just that they’d try a new strategy. If no lawyers were allowed to try new strategies without facing penalties, that also seems like a bad system.

    Tetsuo ,

    In my opinion, how good the AI performed is irrelevant. What is is the fact that an AI was used instead of the lawyer.

    If it is proven that the lawyer used what the AI delivered verbatim then it doesn’t matter how good that text was. The client has the right to have a lawyer, not an AI pretending to be a lawyer.

    Touching_Grass ,

    But can they use an auto correct?

    pete_the_cat ,

    Autocorrect does single words and you usually review each word. Something like ChatGPT will generate an entire document for you, it’s up to you if you want to verify the correctness of everything in there, which most people don’t.

    Saneless ,

    Good point. If a lawyer is stupid enough to use AI, he’s probably too stupid to be a good lawyer in the first place

    Touching_Grass ,

    I think its a good use. I think the idiotic thing is how it was used. It sounds like he didn’t validate it after which might just be unfamiliar with using new tech. Might be a lawyer looking to get a new trial. Might be just pure incompetence. But I still think its a good use if used correctly

    givesomefucks ,

    Well, the lawyer gave interviews after his client was guilty. Bragging about how instead of spending hours on it he only spent “seconds” and that the AI would mean he could have a lot more clients and make a lot more money.

    So, it’s going to be pretty hard for him to now argue he put in just as much effort.

    Imgonnatrythis ,

    Did he help develop or train the AI? That upfront effort should perhaps be considered.

    Touching_Grass ,

    But that is like saying instead of spending hours on an essay I cut the time in half with ms word. Its just a tool. If the lawyer produced arguments with it and reviewed it then what’s the issue. And tbjs still doesn’t determine if the work presented was good or not.

    givesomefucks ,

    Because he didn’t review it…

    He used it “as is” so he could advertise his AI tool as “does it all by itself”.

    It sounds like rather than advertising it as tool for lawyers, he’s advertising it to clients as a replacement for lawyers.

    Touching_Grass , (edited )

    100% that is dumb.

    But in all seriousness I think we all need a pocket lawyer.

    Its one of those things that I think causes a ton if inequality. I think its too early but definitely in our lives we could all have a bunch of services in our pocket that are difficult to access now. But that’s not going to happen if we don’t reject this stuff as idiotic.

    JohnDClay ,

    In this case, it seems to be much worse, inventing reference cases and making nonsensical arguments.

    youtu.be/oqSYljRYDEM

    dogslayeggs ,

    That’s irrelevant. The AI is not licensed to practice law; so if the lawyer didn’t perform any work to check the AI output, then then the AI was the one defending the client and the lawyer was just a mouthpiece for the AI.

    Touching_Grass ,

    But is it a mistrial if the lawyer uses autocorrect?

    If the lawyer reviewed the output and found it acceptable then how can you argue it was practicing law. I can write an argument I wantm feed it to AI to correct and improve and iterate through the whole thing. Its just a robust auto correct.

    dogslayeggs ,

    But is it a mistrial if the lawyer uses autocorrect?

    No, that’s a bad question. Autocorrect takes your source knowledge and information as input and makes minor corrections to spelling and suggestions to correct grammar. It doesn’t come up with legal analysis on its own, and any suggestions for grammar changes should be scrutinized by the licensed professional to make sure the grammar changes don’t affect the argument.

    And your second statement isn’t what happened here. If the lawyer had written an argument and then fed it to AI to correct and improve, then that would have the basis of starting with legal analysis written from a licensed professional. In this case, the lawyer bragged that he spent only seconds on this case instead of hours because the AI did everything. If he only spent seconds, then he very likely didn’t start the process with writing his own analysis and then feeding it to AI; and he likely didn’t review the analysis that was spit out by the AI.

    This is an issue that is happening in the medical world, too. Young doctors and med students are feeding symptoms into AI and asking for a diagnosis. That is a legitimate thing to use AI for as long as the diagnosis that gets spit out is heavily scrutinized by a trained doctor. If they just immediately take the outputs from AI and apply the standard medical treatment for that without double checking whether the diagnosis makes sense, then that isn’t any better than me typing my symptoms into Google and looking at the results to diagnose myself.

    Touching_Grass ,

    I watched the legal eagle video about another case where they submitted documents straight from an LLM with hallucinated cases. I can agree that’s idiotic. But if there are a ton of use cases for these things in a lot of profession’s that I think these types of incidents might leave people assuming that using it is idiotic.

    My concern is that I think there’s a lot of people trying to convince people to be afraid or suspicious of something that is very useful because they might be threatened either their career or skills are now at risk of being diminished and so they come up with these crazy stories.

    zaph ,

    But is it a mistrial if the lawyer uses autocorrect?

    If you’re found guilty because of a typo you’re probably going to have a successful appeal.

    If the lawyer reviewed the output and found it acceptable then how can you argue it was practicing law.

    This could very well be what he has to prove. That the lawyer didn’t do his due diligence and just trusted the ai.

    pete_the_cat ,

    Now I’m imagining an AI lawyer in court, thanks.

    Toribor ,
    @Toribor@corndog.social avatar

    Yeah I feel like this is the same as if the lawyer had used a crystal ball to decide how to handle a case. If he lied to clients about it or was also selling crystal ball reading services that seems pretty bad.

    vzq ,

    What is the bar here

    I see what you did there

    Salamendacious OP ,
    @Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

    That was mentioned briefly in the article. I was about to look into it a little more but I got side tracked. Thanks!

    CosmicCleric , to news in Black student suspended over his hairstyle to be sent to an alternative education program
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Do hairstyles actually interfere with teaching?

    I can’t imagine how.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    Teacher having a stroke trying not to spontaneously burn a cross when exposed to a black kid who “doesn’t know their place”

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I get the racist angle, what I’m asking for is how do they justify those laws/rules, as in how it harms education.

    What literal excuse could they give to say that a hairstyle affects the education of their students?

    jasondj ,

    Because it teaches kids to sit down and shut up.

    This reads like 60s era rules that never got updated. Hell it sounds like big puffy afros from the 60s/70s were meant to maliciously comply with that haircut rule.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Again, what’s their actual justification, what do they vocalize and express is the reason why they have this rule?

    I’m honestly don’t want to hear the other sides flames about it, I want to hear why they’re doing what they’re doing from their own mouths.

    jasondj ,

    No, you’re missing it. That is their actual justification. Jim Crow bullshit.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    No, you’re missing it. That is their actual justification. Jim Crow bullshit.

    Those actual words came out of their mouths, they said “We’re implementing these rules because of Jim Crow”?

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    They explain it here: npr.org/…/black-student-crown-act-texas-hairstyle…

    Seems like his violations are a result of being asked to not wear his hair like that and him refusing, and one act of tardiness. So yes, it’s his hair. That’s the reason, and they don’t feel the need to explain themselves.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    So yes, it’s his hair. That’s the reason, and they don’t feel the need to explain themselves.

    That’s basically what I was asking after, if they expkained why the policy they have was needed, how it improves education and learning.

    The article just says this…

    Violation of the dress and grooming policy.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I think they were like this with him on purpose.

    moneyinphx , to news in Black student suspended over his hairstyle to be sent to an alternative education program

    Yet another reason on why Texas is so awful.

    crystalmerchant , to news in Black student suspended over his hairstyle to be sent to an alternative education program

    I still don’t get it

    And his hair is rad anyways

    jabathekek ,
    @jabathekek@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Old fuddy white administration were just jealous.

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