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volodya_ilich

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In response to the lemmy.ml moderation polemic: beware of bad faith agents!

One of the biggest topics of these days is that of mods in lemmy.ml banning and censoring people because they’re Tankies. This has had a rather sizeable discussion of people agreeing and even arguing for defederating ml. I’m sure a lot of people are arguing from good intentions, but there’s also bad faith actors among...

volodya_ilich OP ,

Your posts there, while not wrong and not even necessarily disagreed with by the people there

They were the most upvoted posts in the community, so no, they weren’t disagreed at all

were off topic

How can it be off-topic? There’s no declared purpose of the community in the sidebar other than a few rules, and were literally the first posts of the community

and obviously just an attempt at whataboutism

Making an entirely new post in an entirely new community is an attempt at whataboutism? I happen to be Spanish and to take the issue of fascism very seriously, since my ancestors suffered it directly and I still suffer its consequences. What part of making a new post about it is whataboutism when I’m not even comparing it to anything??

posting things that you know are likely to get you removed

Wait, a post about fascism in Spain, and a post about a famine in India, are going to get me removed? Do you realize what you’re saying? People aren’t allowed to talk about other international grievances for how long exactly after the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre without getting accused of whataboutism, being Tankies, and getting banned? Do you realize how anti-communist discourse works?

the term “commie” as a synonym for tankie is wrong

That’s not what they did. They banned me for being a communist, not a tankie, they didn’t use it as a synonym.

the behaviour of tankie mods

I’m not here to argue about that, that’s a topic that has been discussed a lot already in the original post, I’m here to talk about bad faith actors jumping in the supposedly anti-tankie reaction to ban anti-imperialism content and anything that smells of communism.

volodya_ilich OP , (edited )

I checked the community and it’s all complaining about ml and tankies

As I said, I was the first post in the community, I’m not going to an established community with a topic to troll them, I’m going there to express other grievances that are equally important to remember in my opinion.

OP was banned with the comment “commie?” and honestly I get why. It sounds like a tankie move

How is commie=tankie? This is exactly my point, the word “tankie” is so abused in lemmy.world that anything to the left of centrism is categorised as such.

tankie move to post anti-US imperialism stuff to a community like that.

“Tankie is when you post anti-US imperialism”. Again, absolutely misusing the word and accusing everyone who posts any complaint about western imperialism of being a tankie.

the account is also 3 days old. I wonder if it’s an alt from a ml person

Good concern, I’m not, I’m actually new to Lemmy, and I’m very surprised to find the word “tankie” in every fourth comment, used most times to refer to anyone who doesn’t buy “US good China bad”

And, again, linking communism with being a tankie when you say “a reference to Lenin makes it suspicious”. People don’t have to preface every leftist commentary with a 10-page essay condemning the failures of historical communist projects any more than people criticising Hitler don’t have to preface the commentary with a 10-page essay on the atrocities committed by allies in WW2.

volodya_ilich OP ,

As explained in my post, the community had no content prior to my upload.

volodya_ilich OP ,

a tankie like you

…and there we go, the magic word to end all discussion in this platform. You guys keep disregarding any and all criticism of capitalism and accusing it of whataboutism and tankieism. Again, how many days have to pass from whichever commemoration of a heinous act committed by a communist project until people can discuss the problems of capitalism and imperialism without fear of being accused of being tankies?

Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy’s massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It’s been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let’s say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they’re what’s colloquially referred to...

volodya_ilich ,

every person who survived/escaped those reigemes described them as hell

This is patently false, you’re either mistaken or lying. During my PhD in a western European country, I had the pleasure of working with several Chinese students and supervising the thesis of even more of them. Of all the Chinese students, all except one returned to china after finishing their studies because they prefer life in China. I made it a point to ask about their opinions on the government, and the approval rate of their government is so much higher than the approval rates of governments that we have in the west. If you look up any poll on this topic you’ll find the same conclusion: Chinese people are on average happier with their government than westerners are with theirs.

About the USSR, a majority of the citizens were against the dissolution of the country and a transition to liberalism, so again, you’ve been misled or you’re lying.

volodya_ilich ,

less politically biased

There’s no such thing as “less politically biased”, it’s just that you don’t perceive the things that align with the center of the overton window as political.

volodya_ilich ,

Dude, you’re absolutely delusional if you think that the conversations I’ve had with Chinese co-workers and FRIENDS (which you clearly never had) are swayed because “their family is collateral”, as if the Chinese government was punishing families for their children emigrating. That’s absolutely insane bullshit on the level of “Chinese hivemind” conspiracy. Regarding your “anecdotal evidence” claim, I beg you to please look at any poll on the topic.

The way they arrived to western Europe isn’t because of “rich families”, it’s because of an agreement between a university in Western Europe and another university in China where China would pay for their tuition abroad. So much for the fucking oppressive state huh?

Funny that you bring up Russia, I also happen to know people there who have no problem telling me in private (as Chinese friends could do) that Putin is borderline fascist, oligarchic, kleptocratic scum, and I fully agree with it. Almost as if, in private, people could voice their actual opinions.

Wow, people hated Russians in post-soviet countries after decades of anti-russian propaganda, what a surprise. I wonder why the Polish were capable of forgiving Germans for the literal Holocaust, but not Russians for a bloodless invasion of their country in the context of a war against Nazis… Almost as if the hatred was manufactured and it was an unjustified form of racism…

volodya_ilich ,

Bye bye, revisionist racist prick. 3000-7000 deaths is absolutely bloodles for an invasion of half a country, keeping in mind that there were plenty of actual Nazis in Poland. Maybe you’re just one of them, since you condemn so much more a bloodless occupation than fucking Nazism.

volodya_ilich ,

Again, the fact that you link the current fascist oligarch Putin, who is a byproduct of the 90s auction of the state to the lowest bidder and western interference in the process, to the USSR which eliminated oligarchs and capitalists like Putin himself, shows that you’re nothing but a racist Polish speaking out of decades of anti-Russian propaganda.

Have some respect for the 20+ million soviet people who died to eliminate Nazism from your country, although again, I bet you’d be happier in a Nazi Poland as long as Russians were exterminated.

volodya_ilich ,

The whole “USSR allied with the Nazis” thing is actually Nazi propaganda and historical evidence proves this repeatedly. Before the war started, Stalin offered to send 1 million soldiers preemptively to England and France, together with artillery and aviation, if they agreed to a mutual defense agreement against Nazis. The soviet union wasn’t prepared industrially for a war like that, again as proven by the 20+ million deaths in the war, and wanted to postpone it as much as possible, and join the allies as soon as it started, but France and England were too eager to see communism destroyed and didn’t care about mutual defense, especially England. The fact that the Soviet Union later invaded some countries to the east of Germany was in preparation for war, to prevent Nazism from rising in these places and the military there allying with Hitler, as Finland did for example (there were plenty of Finns sieging Leningrad).

Equating Nazism and the USSR is a revisionist, fascist talking point based on purposeful misinterpretation of some data like the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and outright omission of other data such as the attempted Collective Security policy attempted by the USSR since the early 30s to protect Europe from fascism, that England and France conveniently didn’t agree to since nazis and fascists were enemies of communism as they were.

volodya_ilich ,

…and I couldn’t be happier about it. The age of American/European imperialism is coming to an end after centuries of suffering imposed on poorer nations. Not that I have high hopes for China or anything, but it’s HARD to do worse than US or Western Europe…

volodya_ilich ,

Ok, American exceptionalist. The legacy of ashes of the US is so far from whatever admittedly bad policy China has had, that even comparing both is ridiculous. In the future, the US will be gazed upon the same way we gaze upon nazi Germany right now. More than a million deaths and millions of lives ruined in the inhumane bombings of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Korea, hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of lives ruined from outright invasion of countries such as Iraq, supporting radical terrorist guerrillas all over the world such as in Afghanistan or Libya, destabilizing and organising coups against democratically elected leaders in countries like Chile (Allende) and Iran (Mosaddegh), banana republics in central America such as in Guatemala, support of fascist dictatorships like that of Pinochet or of Franco, constant militarism and refusing to lower military expenditure in the face of nuclear war against the USSR, sending nuclear missiles to Turkey and refusing to act upon even unilateral attempts during the Gorbachyov era to cool down the cold war… The list is absolutely ENDLESS, I haven’t even mentioned a quarter of all the examples that come to mind. China simply doesn’t have that history. Believing that the US isn’t doing worse than China means you’re absolutely blind to US and western European imperialism (I could bring equal lists of humanitarian crises started by UK, France, Spain, Italy and Belgium).

volodya_ilich ,

Is that how low the bar for tankie is nowadays for anti-communists? Acknowledging US and western-european imperialism? Go out of US/Europe and ask around.

volodya_ilich ,

I know it’s not the fault of American citizens, hence I didn’t accuse them. Talking about American imperialism isn’t saying “American citizens suck”, I’m European myself and I’m fully aware of the actions of my government and the EU. The fact that I’m looking forwards to the end of western imperialism doesn’t mean I wish any evil on the citizens of the west since they’re not to blame for this system. I’m just saying it’s hard to beat US and European imperialism in being evil.

volodya_ilich ,

As you can see from my words “not that I have high hopes for China, but it’s hard to be worse than the US”, I’m not advocating that “China good”. I’m just saying it’s hardly possible to bring more evil to the world than western Europe and the US have.

volodya_ilich ,

God forbid we criticise the system for its failures.

What is truly hard is doing better

Yeah, mate, it’s so hard not murdering millions of people in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Iraq. They just die by themselves when the bombs happen to drop on them, so unfortunate.

Saying that things are difficult is actually an excuse for inaction and lukewarm reformism, as has been shown over the past decades with the Palestine occupation by Israel for example. The whole “it’s so difficult” framework exposed in western media led to public opinion not being swayed one way or the other. Now, with the advent of social media and the access to international media of all ideologies, people clearly see there’s a settler genocidal state bombing another. It’s easy: stop the fucking bombings, and stop the settling, and stop the blockade on Gaza. It’s not hard not bombing people, it actually costs a lot of money.

If you want constructive solutions I’ll give you constructive solutions. Abolish unemployment by creating public employment. Abolish exploitation of the working classes by expropriating the means of production. Abolish homelessness and solve the housing crisis by building prefab housing on a nationwide scale. Stop bombing developing countries. All things I’m saying have been achieved by poorer nations 50+ years ago, it can be done and it’s absolutely realistic.

Now, what do you propose?

volodya_ilich ,

Again, I don’t blame the general populace. What you say of “Americans have ourselves to look at”, it’s not that easy. These things don’t happen in a vacuum, the context of Americans and Europeans (and Canadians and Aussies and even Russians) not looking inwards and realising imperialism, isn’t a consequence of lack of self-awareness that these countries have and the rest don’t. It’s just a consequence of the system we happen to live in, which propagandizes certain points of view, talking points, and controls media to serve the interests of capital. It’s hardly useful IMO to blame the majority for issues that could be solved “simply” by changing the ownership structure of media outlets, for example.

volodya_ilich ,

Idk what you mean by “group buy-in”, sorry, maybe it’s an idiom I’m not picking, I’m not a native speaker.

If you mean that people generally should believe in the change for the change to happen, then yes, I agree that’s a great starting point. That’s why we leftists organise, and try to create resilient communities that care for those around us, in order to make people have better lives and be more aware of the oppression they’re suffering, and when the material conditions are appropriate, to be there.

volodya_ilich ,

Yes, I’m sure it’s hard to be worse than the US. I’m aware that the Chinese government has oppressive attitudes against its own citizens in terms of freedom of speech. Funnily enough, the Chinese government rates much higher in terms of perception by its own citizens than those in western countries.

And the tiananmen square protest is absolutely insignificant in comparison with the carpet bombing campaigns of the US in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Korea, that left literal MILLIONS of deaths.

volodya_ilich ,

Also, isn’t the US the one CURRENTLY suppressing protests in universities??

volodya_ilich ,

The 20th century of the US has plenty of cases of massacres against unions and miners, but yeah the modern US is more discreet about the way it kills people, like the black panthers or creating drug addictions from the CIA in black neighbourhoods.

But yeah the US tends to focus its murders in other soil, like in Vietnam, Korea or more recently Iraq

volodya_ilich ,

Again, funny coming from the country in the world with most imprisoned population on earth (despite having 1/5th the population of China), in which the black population is extremely overrepresented.

Regardless of your opinion on the Vietcong and the Khmer Rouge, the US carpet bombing the entire fucking countries, including civilians and infrastructure, isn’t justified, or is it? Do you argue that the Uyghur oppression is justified because of the terrorist attacks committed by Uyghur radicals? Or can we condemn both the US bombing of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia as well as the Uyghur oppression by the Chinese government, while being aware that the former caused millions of deaths and millions more of lives destroyed, and the latter isn’t comparable in magnitude unless you’re an Adrian Zenz dicksucker.

Do you realize how quickly you go and defend the US murdering literal millions of humans? I can condemn both countries for their actions, and look at the numbers and affirm: US imperialism is on a completely different order of magnitude of evil than Chinese government’s actions.

volodya_ilich ,

en.wikipedia.org/…/Incarceration_in_the_United_St…

volodya_ilich ,

Oh yes, I forgot that the Tiananmenr square massacre happened yesterday!

This has to do with comparing models of imperialism to see which one is more harmful. The US and European one is more harmful to the rest of the world, so I wish for its end. It’s that simple.

volodya_ilich ,

Yeah, and I’m correcting you since you’re factually wrong about that by any actual METRIC of harm imposed onto the rest of the world you choose.

volodya_ilich ,

Yeah, how come Israel gets all the economic sanctions and Russia gets nothing?? Oh wait…

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