snek

snek OP , 8 months ago

They attempted a shutdown in 2017 too

jta.org/…/netanyahu-eyeing-way-to-shut-down-al-ja…

snek , 8 months ago

I wrote this long ass comment for another person but I want to put it here too. Hamas having bunkers in a densely populated area under the city is not a “war crime”. The whole thing with Hamas using human shields by setting up camp inside Gaza is BS.

What I mean to say is that when people say “human shields”, they mean when civilians are forced into crossfire to protect the enemy troops. However, there exists the notion of “proximity shielding”.

If you check the Wikipedia page for human shields:

Authors Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, elaborating on their book, Human Shields: A History of People in the Line of Fire, discuss “proximate shields”, humans as shields merely due to proximity to belligerents and assert that this type has become “by far the most prominent type of shield in contemporary discourse”. They say that the proximate shielding accusation has been used by States to cover-up war crimes against civilian populations and that human rights organizations frequently fail to question this charge which they claim is being improperly used to justify civilian deaths.[7]

There are several pieces that discuss this idea, but here are some.

In this analysis piece of proximity shielding, we read:

Our research suggests that human rights and humanitarian organizations have been complicit with this framing exercise and that it is urgent to have a frank conversation about human shields and the legal and political implications of the human shielding accusation. Both in our book and in several academic articles, we have shown that hi-tech States spend considerable resources on media campaigns and mobilize legal and military expertise to justify their use of lethal violence in cities where civilians are trapped.[ii] We describe how human shields, and particularly the charge of proximate shielding, are being widely used by States and their militaries to justify civilian deaths in asymmetric conflicts, and how it has become a major tool in what we have called the ‘erosion’ of the civilian. **

If you turn your eyes back to the wiki page I first linked under the section on Israel and Palestine:

Israel has used the charge, in what has been termed its ‘infowar’ on social media,[56] to explain the high ratio of civilian vs military casualties in its conflict with Gaza. In Operation Cast Lead 100 Gazans died for every Israeli, and the civilian ratio was 400 Gazans to 1 Israeli. Israeli spokesmen explained the difference by alleging that Hamas used civilians as shields. It has been argued that no evidence has come to light proving these claims.[57][58][59][60] In September 2004, Justice Aharon Barak presiding over the Israeli Supreme Court, issued a demand that the IDF desist from the practice of using Palestinians as human shields, and in October outlawed the procedure.[61] The independent human rights NGOs B’tselem and Amnesty International have stated that ample evidence exists in conflicts after that date that Israel has employed Palestinians as human shields. According to B’tselem, the practice goes back to 1967.[55][61]

Finally, this article discusses the politics surrounding the idea of human shields

By these means, entire populations and vast cities are reduced to war space. Prevailing hierarchies of humanity ensure that some places and some people are far more likely to find themselves expendable through the twisted logics and framings of the human shield.

I hope this makes my point clear but basically: Israel is using proximity shielding (aka accusing Hamas of using civilians as human shields) to justify ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and has itself had to outlaw the use of Palestinians as human shields because it was a normal part of Israeli military operations and totally allowed until all the human rights groups finally succeeded in outlawing it, and yet Israel still sometimes uses it.

snek , 8 months ago

Exactly. And yet we have these pieces of evidence and we ignore them.

• [Aljazeera documentary] (www.aljazeera.com/program/…/Gaza-human-shields)
• Palestinian Children ‘Routinely Tortured & Used As Human Shields By Israeli Forces’, Says UN
• Video from B’Tselem
• More from B’Tselem who had to do so much just to have this human shield business against Palestinians banned in Israel
• And finally this classic from which the iconic photo comes from

Photo:

snek OP , 8 months ago

They are literally bombing their own people, putting up roadblocks inside their cities, and confiscating people’s car keys to keep them in the area as human shields.

How are they using them as human shields? These people just live there.

snek OP , 8 months ago

Only Israel says it’s a car bomb. All other reports say missile.

snek OP , 8 months ago

Seems that over 50 Gazan families are completely gone with no remaining survivors.

snek , 8 months ago

I saw this today and searched for any other articles where The Times of Israel uses the word “genocide”… This complete lack of self-criticism is what made Israel an apartheid state.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0b7c5f41-0583-4458-bedc-e755037696e7.png

snek , 8 months ago

I’ve been saying this for years, but no one listens to a random dev. Now I can finally back it up with some authority.

snek , 8 months ago (edited 8 months ago)

I’m so * shocked * /s

snek , 8 months ago

You really enjoy using inciting language like „genocidal conquerors“, huh?

You make no point.

You are also purposefully mixing the Israeli government and the civilian population.

The person said “ISRAEL”, not Israeli people, so anything sanctioned by the genocidal Israeli government.

Are you referring to Hamas as „baby slaughtering and murdering rapists“ on the other hand?

Even if they are, does that make Israel any less of an apartheid genocide state? No.

By your standards you have to extend this to the whole population of Gaza,

Pure BS, a conclusion that doesn’t even derive from the previous points.

Every single time… every fucking single time someone says something bad about Israel (which happens to be truth, documented, over decades) somehow has to jump to this shit. Saying shit like this is the reason Palestinians are now being ethnically cleansed and Gaza is about to collapse. There are thousands of people under the rubble that they can’t even get out because they ran out of volunteers to dig people alive (alive or dead).

If Israel doesn’t want to be called genocidal, it should stop doing genocide, period.

snek , 8 months ago

Even if Hamas killed these 70 people (which I doubt), who killed the other 2200 in Gaza?

snek , 8 months ago

The video is now gone. So what was it?

snek , 8 months ago (edited 7 months ago)

Look at this

Video released by the Palestinian health ministry shows ambulance crews arriving at the scene of the airstrike.

One ambulance crew came under fire as they were tending to a young girl and a woman inside the ambulance.

nypost.com/…/70-palestinians-in-convoy-fleeing-no…

CLASSIC ISRAEL. Kill civilians. Shoot at ambulances trying to help civilians, then claim that the Palestinians did it to themselves.

So again we have confirmed video evidence that the ambulance responding to this got hit directly… And I still see people here want to shroud it in mystery and skepticism.

I get it. I’m a skeptic. I understand that it is important to confirm from the Israeli side., However, Israel lies in the media nonstop and then simply gets away with it. It’s Israel’s claims that need to be confirmed, not the Gazan health ministry. Israel simply brushes it aside and says, “pfff no idea could be Hamas booby traps.”

No, Israel, fuck you, explain these dead people now. Fucking explain this.

And why was that ambulance hit? Why have we seen so many videos and images of hit ambulances and news of dead medical staff and Israel won’t even give the slightest fuck to inconvenience itself and explain its crimes.

snek , 8 months ago

The future right now is that Israeli forces are committing ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Israel is not at all in any way or capacity trying to secure a safe future for their own citizens and got the Palestinians.

snek , 8 months ago

1. Israel did this every day for decades
2. No, they didn’t, I agree
3. Exactly. And Israel is a terrorist state.

snek , 8 months ago

If it’s done for decades why does Palestinians population growing?

1. Because of the high birth rate. It doesn’t matter if Palestinians live today still, the key point is that Israel is systematically committing ethnic cleansing.
2. What is that supposed to mean?

snek , 8 months ago

There are ample sources that show exactly how Israel does that

Generally, human rights organizations hsve taken a stance that denounced Israeli state terrorism and apartheid against Palestinians.

www.amnesty.org/…/israels-system-of-apartheid/

Israel has been accused of genocide on multiple occasions (reuters.com/…/palestinian-un-envoy-accuses-israel… is one recent example) yet no sanctions are ever placed on them

Look at all the fucking UN resolutions condemning Israel so far. It’s so shameful that Israel is allowed to continue this.

1969: 11 December: Resolution 2546: Condemns Israeli “violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms” in the occupied territories

1983 19 December: Resolutions 38/180: Calls all nation to suspend or sever all diplomatic, economic and technological ties with Israel. Condemnation of Israel on various topics including occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights, war in Lebanon and the annexation of Jerusalem.

Etc, etc

My own family were terrorized by Israel’s Deir Yassin massacre, the news of it spread everywhere and they decided to flee and ended up in Jordan, where life was frankly shit as a family of Palestinian refugees and I really admire my grandmother for standing up from that.

Screw Israel. Because of them I had to live as a second class citizen in anothe country where I never felt home and always had less opportunies and protection than others who were Jordanian despite being granted a citizenship. I’m happy my grandmother at least didn’t live long enough to see this shit unfolding after she lived through 1948 and lost everything in it. She deserved to go back. If any of these UN resolutions were followed she would have been home, happy and healthy for once in her life without having to become a goddamn refugee. Israel ruined so many lives, Israel removes whole families from existence. These are facts, and worse of all Israel’s human rights violations are always overlooked.

snek , 8 months ago

Because Hamas would never think to slap a sticker on a car saying TV to get though checkpoints with bags of weapons would they?

This kind of talk is being used to excuse all sorts of attacks against the Press and Palestinian civilians.

Maybe Israel doesn’t want any press…

snek , 8 months ago

Israel has killed full Palestinian families in Gaza. This isn’t people “caught in the crossfire”. This is Israel bringing the crossfire to their beds and homes. This is Israel’s continuing ethnic cleansing.

snek , 8 months ago

use precision strikes

These strikes are so precise that they now killed about 2k Gazans and around ten of the Israeli hostages. So precise.

warming knocker bombs

They said they would not roof knock this time although it seems international human rights orgs forced them to. Knocking does squat shit if you have around 5 minutes to leave.

and tell civilians to flee.

Then they bomb them while they flee. Or in the case of internationals, tell them to get to Rafah then leave them bretthless as they discover the Rafah checkpoint is still closed despite Biden’s best efforts and an Israeli promise.

snek OP , 8 months ago

No, sorry, I actually didn’t for some reason.

And now that I have I’m even more convinced it’s bullshit. Seems like Israel consistently wants to silence people report in on its war crimes.

snek OP , 8 months ago

I went to Wikipedia, seems like you can do it without that in lots of ways.

snek OP , 8 months ago

The problem is that you cannot “evacuate” one million people in a day, nevermind doing it safely.

The problem is Israel.

snek , 8 months ago

and both ground their claim on religion.

No. Sorry, but this is bullshit.

Palestinians lived in Palestine before any Zionists came, and they lived with Palestinian Jews and Christians. They don’t demand the land because of “religion”… they demand their land, country, identity, and dignity back.

Big fucking difference. And honestly, it reflects poor knowledge about Palestinians and Palestinian history on your part.

snek , 8 months ago

“In peace”

Not really.

You know Palestinian Jews exist, right? Like, not Jews who immigrated from America or Europe, like… Arab Jews.

snek , 8 months ago

I am talking about Palestinians not Hamas. My words were clear up there.

This equating of Hamas and Palestinians is pretty lame imo.

snek , 8 months ago

Could you point to where I did that?

snek , 8 months ago

I will ask you again which part in this is the one where I equate the Israeli government with Israeli civilians.

Thanks.

snek , 8 months ago

Innocent Palestinians are being killed by an ethno state so let’s make sure we call it what it is. It’s colonial sentiments and Jewish supremacy that are behind this.

snek , 8 months ago

The main problem is that Hamas is using the Palestinians and hides amongst them

Why do you think Hamas has not been able to “resolve” this issue?

snek , 8 months ago

Gaza has worked on its infrastructure and now Israel destroyed it all again. Hmmm…

snek , 8 months ago

Its been widly reported that the Palestinians are being used by Hamas as human shields.

Could you support that claim? Because it is Israel that actually has a track record of using human shields.

And no sorry, living in an area does not mean you are using people as human shields. Israel, for example, forces children to walk through a cross fire as a human shield or straps them on the front of an army truck.

snek , 8 months ago

I think almost all mentions of Hamas using human shields is a dumb technicality. Again, Israel staps Palestinian children on trucks and has been condemned by so many fucking human rights organizations that it made me lose hope in the world that they will ever be held accountable. Hamas on the other hand keeps its military bases where Israel can’t find them on an extremely densely populated open prison.

It’s entirely Israel’s fault for bombing hospitals (yes it’s done that in this operation too and in every single one before), whether Hamas (who are fucking picks too) puts bases underneath or not. You’d imagine if they were using human shields that Israel would kill less civilians. Instead Israel uses it as an excuse to kill Palestinians because they are less than human to the IDF.

snek , 8 months ago

You’re not being intellectually honest.

What I mean to say is that when people say “human shields”, they mean when civilians are forced into crossfire to protect the enemy troops. However, there exists the notion of “proximity shielding”.

If you check the Wikipedia page for human shields:

Authors Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, elaborating on their book, Human Shields: A History of People in the Line of Fire, discuss “proximate shields”, humans as shields merely due to proximity to belligerents and assert that this type has become “by far the most prominent type of shield in contemporary discourse”. They say that the proximate shielding accusation has been used by States to cover-up war crimes against civilian populations and that human rights organizations frequently fail to question this charge which they claim is being improperly used to justify civilian deaths.[7]

There are several pieces that discuss this idea, but here are some.

Our research suggests that human rights and humanitarian organizations have been complicit with this framing exercise and that it is urgent to have a frank conversation about human shields and the legal and political implications of the human shielding accusation. Both in our book and in several academic articles, we have shown that hi-tech States spend considerable resources on media campaigns and mobilize legal and military expertise to justify their use of lethal violence in cities where civilians are trapped.[ii] We describe how human shields, and particularly the charge of proximate shielding, are being widely used by States and their militaries to justify civilian deaths in asymmetric conflicts, and how it has become a major tool in what we have called the ‘erosion’ of the civilian.

In this analysis piece of proximity shielding, we read:

Our research suggests that human rights and humanitarian organizations have been complicit with this framing exercise and that it is urgent to have a frank conversation about human shields and the legal and political implications of the human shielding accusation. Both in our book and in several academic articles, we have shown that hi-tech States spend considerable resources on media campaigns and mobilize legal and military expertise to justify their use of lethal violence in cities where civilians are trapped.[ii] We describe how human shields, and particularly the charge of proximate shielding, are being widely used by States and their militaries to justify civilian deaths in asymmetric conflicts, and how it has become a major tool in what we have called the ‘erosion’ of the civilian. **

If you turn your eyes back to the wiki page I first linked under the section on Israel and Palestine:

Israel has used the charge, in what has been termed its ‘infowar’ on social media,[56] to explain the high ratio of civilian vs military casualties in its conflict with Gaza. In Operation Cast Lead 100 Gazans died for every Israeli, and the civilian ratio was 400 Gazans to 1 Israeli. Israeli spokesmen explained the difference by alleging that Hamas used civilians as shields. It has been argued that no evidence has come to light proving these claims.[57][58][59][60] In September 2004, Justice Aharon Barak presiding over the Israeli Supreme Court, issued a demand that the IDF desist from the practice of using Palestinians as human shields, and in October outlawed the procedure.[61] The independent human rights NGOs B’tselem and Amnesty International have stated that ample evidence exists in conflicts after that date that Israel has employed Palestinians as human shields. According to B’tselem, the practice goes back to 1967.[55][61]

Finally, this article discusses the politics surrounding the idea of human shields

By these means, entire populations and vast cities are reduced to war space. Prevailing hierarchies of humanity ensure that some places and some people are far more likely to find themselves expendable through the twisted logics and framings of the human shield.

I hope this makes my point clear but basically: Israel is using proximity shielding (aka accusing Hamas of using civilians as human shields) to justify ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and has itself had to outlaw the use of Palestinians as human shields because it was a normal part of Israeli military operations and totally allowed until all the human rights groups finally succeeded in outlawing it, and yet Israel still sometimes uses it.

snek , 8 months ago

I am still waiting for the part where I equated Israelis with the Israeli govt and forces… How much longer do I need to wait until you read that paragraph again and realize you were wrong?

snek OP , 8 months ago

but I’m absolutely positive they’re not teaching that hate in their education system.

I don’t know about that, but I know they do it in the army: theguardian.com/…/israel-palestinian-territories

If Israeli authorities taught Israelis that Palestinians are not sub-human, you would not have all these Israeli Palestinians now being fired from their jobs, and you would not have these shitty photos from that Guardian article, in which this is described as “widespread”.

Dehumanizing Palestinians is Israel’s first and foremost tool… without it, you cannot make people commit atrocities. Jews were also dehumanized during the holocaust to reach the same result of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

snek OP , 8 months ago

You think Israel should continue to allow Gazans to cross the border and work in Israel after war has been declared?

Yes. Israel is wrong to commit ethnic cleansing and all the other crimes in Gaza.

snek OP , 8 months ago

How was it debunked “clearly and obviously”? None of the thighs you said in any way debunk the fact that Israel is illegally killing and removing people from their land.

snek OP , 8 months ago

Really why are there Jewish people today after the holocaust? Because your definition of a genocide and what doesn’t make it one is dumb as fuck frankly.

snek , 8 months ago

They explain it here: npr.org/…/black-student-crown-act-texas-hairstyle…

Seems like his violations are a result of being asked to not wear his hair like that and him refusing, and one act of tardiness. So yes, it’s his hair. That’s the reason, and they don’t feel the need to explain themselves.

snek , 8 months ago

Yeah, I think they were like this with him on purpose.

snek OP , 8 months ago

This is the Rafah checkpoint, currently out of order because Israel bombed it. If I recall correctly, they bombed it twice just for good measures.

Before that it wasn’t “open” to refugees if that’s what you are trying to tell these people.