Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population
So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.
It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.
I don't think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don't think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself
Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.
So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?
P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?
At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here’s some fun reading for you, directly from the CIA’s website, documents from the CIA’s project to move literal Nazis to Ukraine in the postwar era to try to build up a nationalist, Nazi movement there to cause trouble in the USSR: www.cia.gov/…/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
they never fuckin stopped, Ukraine is lousy with Nazis, and you are a Nazi by association
Well, I’m living in a twisted world where everyone is not only totally okay with my compatriots dying after being mass-imprisioned, kidnapped on the streets, and forcibly sent to the front to die, because this might cause some Russians to die as well, they also think that they are helping us (as opposed to murdering us) by supporting this shit.
WBY?
The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.
The fucking Ukrainians have talked about the U.S. forcing them out of peace talks, but I guess you, being a liberal with the memory of a goldfish, can’t remember anything that happened before 2022
Liberals like you are the reason we’re going to have world war 3, because you’re too fucking stupid to actually be aware of what’s going on in the world
A prolonged incursion into Russia could escalate the conflict, drawing in other nations and potentially leading to a catastrophic global confrontation.
Bit of a joke to write this, isn’t it. The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over. Maybe Ukraine would leave the Russian territory if Russia leaves Ukrainian territory? Not sure that’s on the table.
I know personally I think the winning side is the one that’s lost all important strategic territory, has lost most of its male population, literally has to kidnap people to conscript them, and has recently spent buckets of its own blood taking territory that not only doesn’t matter but would be impossible to hold if they wanted to
that is the point you mental child, “they could just give up though” is the dumbest shit that anybody’s wasted time typing out in this thread
particularly when Ukraine has been losing since Russia invaded in 2022. You get how conflicts work, right? The guys winning never surrender, because they’re fucking winning
You have a child’s understanding of politics and conflict, maybe even less so. I will condescending to people that are smugly stepping outside the bounds of their understanding to justify supporting throwing more Ukrainans into an unwinnable meat grinder you dumb motherfucker.
Do you know what escalation means? Russia hasn’t escalated shit since it launched the invasion. Each thing Russia has done since the invasion is part of the invasion. They haven’t attacked other nations, they haven’t embargoed or disrupted trade beyond their own borders, they haven’t introduced new weapons platforms, they haven’t made attempts to decapitate Ukrainian leadership.
Ukraine and the West are escalating. They’ve been escalating literally since the end of the Cold War. Each country on the border of Russia that got NATO nuclear sites was an escalation. Each color revolution was an escalation. Each sanction was an escalation. Each call for a no fly zone was an escalation. Each new weapons platform sent to Ukraine was an escalation. Each use of Western military intelligence to coordinate Ukrainian strikes was an escalation. Each time Ukraine struck civilian infrastructure inside Russia was an escalation.
You are using words you hear people say but you don’t understand them.
Russia has had one demand since the USSR was dismantled - no NATO operations in Ukraine. When the USA escalated and supported the coup in 2014, Russia escalated and took Crimea. When the fascists in Ukraine escalated and sent paramilitary forces to terrorize and mass murder ethnic Russians, Russia escalated with paramilitary of its own in the region. When Ukraine escalated by pursuing NATO operations in its country and NATO made noise like it might, like when Trump escalated and approved the first weapons shipment to Ukraine in US history, Russia escalated by invading the border region. That’s all of Russia’s escalatory moves - 1 every 5 years or so. It’s Ukraine and the West that have escalated since then. Sanctioning Russia was an escalation. Seizing Russian assets in violation of international law was an escalation. Sending lethal aid each year totalling more than the entire Russian military budget was an escalation. Sending Western intelligence, trainers, and even combatants to harm Russia are all escalatory moves.
The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over.
Are you fucking serious
What do you call expanding NATO? You think that isn’t escalation because, what, “it’s a defensive pact”? You really don’t see how a country like Russia could view an encirclement of “defensive” pacts as aggressive, when it has constantly stated that Ukraine joining NATO is a red line?
You don’t think NATO discussing sending NUKES TO UKRAINE, putting them within MINUTES OF MOSCOW, is in any way an escalation?
What the FUCK is wrong with you fucking people
NATO could have simply not attempted to expand, Ukraine could have simply honored the Minsk agreement and stopped genociding Russians in the Donbas, but you don’t say shit like that, you think it’s entirely on Russia. Brainwashed ass motherfucker
Your attempt to communicate through memes reveals your surface level understanding of the conflict. Congratulations, like all the other NATO lovers you are impossibly ignorant of world events.
The one country that is escalating things is Russia.
This war is literally only happening because of the US and the other countries in NATO. Don’t think you should be writing such pithy statements if your understanding of the war is equivalent to a Star Wars plotline.
“Russia is winning a war in which they have never not held huge amounts of Ukrainian territory” is just a fact, you don’t have to like Putin to acknowledge reality you know?
“russia is winning the war that they are obviously winning, and Ukraine is a nazi paradise controlled by US interests. Ukraine should surrender to stop the bloodshed” = putin apologist ok lol
looks like western sponsors of the war might have had enough of Zelensky
It is time for sober reflection. The Ukrainian people deserve leadership focused on practical, achievable objectives, not on grandstanding gestures. While courage and defiance are admirable, they must be tempered with strategic wisdom. The path to victory lies not in symbolic acts of defiance, but in the methodical, relentless pursuit of territorial liberation.
The path to victory lies not in symbolic acts of defiance, but in the methodical, relentless pursuit of territorial liberation.
That’s just stupid. Are they really suggesting Ukraine should focus solely on grinding through fortified Russian defenses? War is more complicated than “just liberate the occupied territory”. And while it’s true that this counteroffensive has its risks. Everything they do or don’t do has its risks.
I think they are just meant Ukraine should stick to the original strategy of prolonging the war no matter what. It’s lost either way, but costly losses will finish it faster than daily grind as usual.
I’m not sure how to understand your comment. Currently neither side is winning or loosing. Which is why neither side is willing to give up. The west needs to decide if they want to keep it that way, or give Ukraine enough support so they can finish the job “fast”.
Ukraine needs a steady supply of modern weapons and the freedom to use them on Russian territory. That way they can continue dismantling the Russian military and minimize casualties. The Russians are pulling a lot of equipment from storage and are refurbishing it. But those storages won’t last forever. Also, Russia may have a large population (so does Ukraine), but pretty much everybody willing to fight is already fighting. Also economic hardships are only going to increase. In other words, political instability in Russia is increasing and with it Putin’s ability to mobilize troops. Don’t forget, Putin can pull out at any time without loosing his power. For Ukraine it’s about survival.
It seems for every issue in Russia you pose, Ukraine is faring worse-off. Ukraine is grabbing people off the streets, the majority of die-hard loyalists signed up when the war started.
I don’t see how Ukraine wins by “using modern weapons on Russian Territory.”
Yes, Ukraine faces a lot of the same problems. That’s why it needs international help. The difference is that even if Ukranians don’t want to fight. At least they have a good reason to.
I’m not saying that victory will be easy. All I’m saying is that it’s very much possible.
I just don’t see a possible victory. Maybe in the past, but at this point it seems like Ukraine should be focused on making their terms of surrender as beneficial to themselves as possible. I don’t see Kursk changing that calculus, though I welcome different analysis.
They’re suggesting that everything is Zelensky’s fault so they can blame him, turn public opinion against him (remember how much everyone thought he was a hero last year), so that when they coup/assassinate him people won’t mind.
That’s just stupid. Are they really suggesting Ukraine should focus solely on grinding through fortified Russian defenses?
That’s clearly a losing strategy, too, but the “we’ll fight them to the last Ukranian” crowd is still too far from reality to admit it.
The best decision for the Ukranian people is to negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible, which means accepting that when you are losing a war the peace isn’t going to involve crazy shit like getting more territory than you started with (Crimea). They’ve lost, and they can come to terms with it now or do so later after a bunch more Ukranians die only get a worse outcome.
The reason the Ukranian government isn’t doing that is because their NATO puppetmasters don’t give a shit about the casualties of their proxies – they just want to bleed Russia as much as possible. So without the option to negotiate, and with the impossibility of winning on the main front, they have to try Hail Mary gambits like the Kursk invasion.
Ah, so the next phase of Amerikan ‘friendship’ is due to start. (Y’know, the point where the betray they guy they’ve been funding for like a decade and send him scurrying into a mountain range if he lives, right?)
Russia’s current position is, that for ceasefire negotiations to start, Ukraine first has to demilitarize. In other words, no. There aren’t any ceasefire negotiations starting any time soon.