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FaizalR ,
@FaizalR@kbin.social avatar

Will news/ acts like this change anything to US policy towards Israel?

PowerCrazy ,

Never. Israel pays too much to US politicians and election campaigns for the ghouls they get elected to ever change. If they do have a change of heart they are easily replaced.

nonailsleft ,

One less protester

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Absolute legend.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Eyes Left Podcast: A Guide to Getting Out of the US Military (Now) w/ the GI Rights Hotline
GI Rights Hotline: girightshotline.org

Omega_Haxors ,

ACAB doesn’t include cops/military who quit.

Cylusthevirus ,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

All it takes to get people to cheer on suicide via self-immolation is doing it for the right cause, I guess. Gross.

Szymon ,

Well, we’re here talking about an important issue and he’ll be remembered forever.

What are you using your life for?

Cylusthevirus ,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

What are you using your life for?

This is where you start asking yourself if you're really a good person after all.

archengel ,
@archengel@nichenerdery.duckdns.org avatar

I’m not sure what you mean by that, can you clarify? For example, I took that as a question that makes someone think about how they could be making the world a better place.

Szymon ,

If he’s asking me, he’s an asshole. I choose to interpret it the way you did, and use it as a way to improve yourself and your community.

iAmTheTot ,
@iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

My thoughts are with his family.

AngWay ,
@AngWay@lemmy.world avatar

This is crazy

Sylver ,

I wish to share my most sincere gratitude and love with the service member and their family. According to the article this is the second self immolation outside an Israeli embassy in the US.

Israel is committing genocide, and the US is complicit. Don’t let anyone forget that.

sadreality ,

I did not realize this happened in the US.

News coverage of this is super sus

iAmTheTot ,
@iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

News coverage of this is super sus

How so? Every article I read mentioned where it happened as well as US organizations performing the investigations.

octopus_ink ,

News coverage of this is super sus

I only learned about the first one due to this discussion we’re in right here.

apnews.com/…/israeli-consulate-self-immolation-at…

sadreality ,

same tbh. i think i vaguely remember about first one but kind just slid out.

was first one in the US too?

ULS ,

Can anyone Eli5 us and Israel connection.

I don’t know much about politics.

DarkMessiah ,

The US is funding Israel to be their minion in the Middle East. A lot like China and North Korea, now that I think about it. Israel has a bit more autonomy than North Korea, though.

jonne ,

There’s no way China would just let North Korea do anything like Israel is doing. The difference is that Israel has outsize political influence in the US through AIPAC and the like.

MsPenguinette , (edited )

Isn’t North Korea doing simular levels of atrocities to their own people?

purahna ,
@purahna@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Whether or not this is true, which I’m not going to address, DPRK is 1) not a settler colonial state, 2) not doing apartheid, and 3) not in the process of growing their own borders into neighboring territory, which are three very large and important differences to consider no matter how you feel about DPRK

chillhelm ,

Yes.

frostysauce ,

And China is involved in its own genocide.

driving_crooner ,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

Question: Have North Korea ever shoot a Chinese military ship, killing 34 crew members and wounding 171 more?

jonne ,

They’re not bombing them, it’s ‘just’ gulags and death penalties.

sadreality ,

The communist style abuse.

We in the west prefer fire and fury typa ops against "enemies of the people"

Quastamaza ,

OT: what’s with all these “removed by a mod” posts I keep seeing? I thought lemmy was an anti censorship effort, was I wrong?

InEnduringGrowStrong ,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

I thought lemmy was an anti censorship effort, was I wrong?

Different places censor different things

assassinatedbyCIA ,

The middle east is an extremely geopolitically important region for the US because of all of the oil it has. The US therefore wants a country that it can use as basically a base of operation and client state in the region. Israel as a european settler colonials state is the client state that America wants because it largely is culturally closer to the US than the surrounding arab states. Consequently, the US defends Israel to the hilt regardless of the constant stream of atrocities that it commits.

PowerCrazy ,

Perhaps that was the initial impetus, but it is also 50 years out of date. Now-a-days, Israel is self-propagating even if they had zero strategic value for US interests, they are the number one donator’s to many top Republican and Democrat campaign funds. In addition they represent a useful tax-haven for all the “high-tech” industries in the US. They are allow by law to develop for the MIC both hardware and software without being restricted by the usual import/export restrictions for national defense. Israel is considered international so corporations aren’t taxed on income from Israel, and Israel will pay large subsidies to American corporations to open offices there. Of course those subsidies are just money the US Government pays to Israel anyway. It’s grotesque, and even if Israel weren’t an apartheid state, the incestuous relationship the country has built with the US ruling class should give anyone with morals pause.

SineSwiper , (edited )
@SineSwiper@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Both of these takes are extremely cynical, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Israel’s actions with Gaza and the extremely right-wing PM in charge should not define Israel as a country and the reasons why the US has them as an ally, just like how Trump does not define the US as a country.

To be clear, I’m not suggesting that they shouldn’t be criticized. But, let’s criticize the actions, instead of making up reasons that the US is involved with Israel in the first place.

PowerCrazy ,

You mean actions like being the number one bipartisan campaign contributors to a large portion of American Leadership? You mean spending more on lobbying then any other industry? You mean Israel isn’t a tax shelter for American Firms that are normally restricted to being located on US Soil? What exactly am I “making up” here?

Are these numbers fake?


<span style="color:#323232;">Biden, Joe (D) 		$5,223,313  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Menendez, Robert (D-NJ) 	New Jersey 	$2,500,005  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) 	New York 	$2,358,112  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Kirk, Mark (R-IL) 	Illinois 	$2,294,469  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Lieberman, Joe (D-CT) 	Connecticut 	$1,996,274  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) 	Kentucky 	$1,953,160  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Schumer, Charles E (D-NY) 	New York 	$1,725,324  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">McCain, John (R-AZ) 	Arizona 	$1,494,066
</span>
can ,

Wow, I thought it was another story about the first one.

freagle ,

The first one? Which first one?

Xavienth ,

In December

FreudianCafe , (edited )

Do you have an article? Cant find anything

Edit: found one apnews.com/…/israeli-consulate-self-immolation-at…

FreudianCafe ,

apnews.com/…/israeli-consulate-self-immolation-at…

freagle ,

Oh wow. I didn’t hear about this at all!!

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Aaron Bushnell, hero and role model

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

I’d like to know why anyone would downvote this. Do you support genocide?

sadreality ,

Telling people that someone who burn himself is a role model is poor taste even if you respect the cause.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

How so? I’m expressing my respect and gratitude in the best way I know how.

This is tiresome and pointless pearl clutching.

explodicle ,

I think the “pearls being clutched” are that you have a great general point but are suggesting something strange. A role model is someone you want people to imitate. We want people to get his message, not to just do the same thing.

Sacrifices like this should always be super rare. If he’s inspiring others to action, then it should be mass protests (at least), not more immolations.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

A role model is someone you want people to imitate

Yes

Sacrifices like this should always be super rare. If he’s inspiring others to action, then it should be mass protests (at least), not more immolations.

Imagine gatekeeping protests.

explodicle ,

What do you mean - do you think more people should set themselves on fire?

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

I’d never presume to be so haughty as to prescribe to another person a form of protest, nor to disparage a meaningful and impactful act like this.

explodicle ,

But you are saying he’s a role model, which means you think more people ought to imitate him.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Yes, I do. I think we should be like him and stand up for what is right. 100% correct.

hasnt_seen_goonies ,

Maybe people are understandably uncomfortable with self immolation? Nobody has ever liked an effective activist in their time. The civil rights protesters in USA had a <25% approval rate in the 60s.

I think this person did what he thought was right, and I will remember him for that. And peace can’t come soon enough.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

I fully agree. I have mad respect for him, which is why I expressed my admiration and support.

Xavienth ,

We should ask the question: is it really effective? Is anybody even talking about the guy who self-immolated in Colorado for the cause of climate change? Hell, even this event is being suppressed and swept under the rug. And those media orgs who do cover it are choosing to take up a “mental illness” angle to dismiss it.

Cylusthevirus ,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

How about suicide? Less fond of that one.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

It takes courage and convictions to do this kind of protest. There’s no need to reduce it to just a suicide. It was a courageous and highly honorable act. I’ve got nothing but respect.

philo ,

Nah, it comes down to suicide. Whatever the reason, as admirable as anyone may claim the act is, it comes down to the fact that he chose to leave everyone who ever loved him behind. Suicide only hurts the doer momentarily but it hurts those he left behind forever. That my friends, is a cowardly and selfish act.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Bullshit. You are insulting everyone who’s had a legitimate reason to commit suicide and their loved ones by proxy. Get this puritanical nonsense out of here. I’ve known multiple people who’ve committed suicide, and while it hurts to lose them, they’ve all had valid reasons, and it’s really tasteless for me to dismiss that or guilt trip people who want to check out.

And in this case, it’s objectively one of the most selfless acts imaginable.

philo ,

No, of course, there are exceptions like euthanasia, sacrificing yourself to save others, etc. His was a suicide not because he was terminally ill, he wasn’t saving someone’s life, he was making a statement. You can call it selfless all you want but the fact is everyone who ever loved him will never see him again because he took himself away from them.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

It was a protest against our nation’s complicity in genocide. This was objectively one of the most selfless acts and meaningful sacrifices imaginable. I have nothing but the utmost respect.

philo ,

He said he would not take part in genocide anymore which I didn’t quite understand because he was stateside IT, not anything to do with combat or intelligence.

MrVilliam ,

He was serving a military which was helping Israel to commit this genocide. Even removed from that, Americans are working and paying taxes which are being sent to fund Israel’s campaign to achieve genocide. It doesn’t matter whether he was pulling triggers himself, he knew that he was indirectly supporting the cause that he was so staunchly opposed to. I have too much to lose by standing (or dying) with him, so I don’t. I’m too cowardly to do what he did. I fucking despise that we are supporting Israel, but I can’t throw it all away in protest like he did. I’m not strong enough, and my family isn’t strong enough without me. Or maybe they are and I’m too selfish to self terminate for this cause.

Because if what he did, we are talking about it. We are all wondering how many more airmen this will cost. Just because we aren’t putting our people on the ground to catch those bullets in person doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost. If we didn’t support that genocide, Aaron Bushnell would be home with his family tonight. You can blame him all you want, but I don’t think he was looking for a reason to abandon his family, I think he was disgusted by what he swore an oath to. We’re supposed to defend the weak, house the exposed, feed the hungry, wash the unclean, etc. Instead, we’re helping Israel to bomb schools and hospitals after telling people that those places are safe from their hellfire. History textbooks will reveal that we were standing idly by while our government funded this, downplayed this, and vetoed every attempt to pause this. There is no legitimate excuse to have allowed this to continue. I fucking hate my country for this. I’m ashamed to be an American, just as much today as I was during trump’s presidency. But I still want to take a moment to remind everybody that trump would’ve 100% made this even worse. I’m not saying to not vote for Biden. I’m saying please, for the love of God, vote in local elections, vote in primaries, and get us somebody better than this fucking shithead neolib next time, but in the meantime help him to beat the autocratic fascist because Biden is way better even though he still fucking sucks.

MsPenguinette ,

I truly beleive that this falls under sacrificing yourself to save lives

philo ,

Nope. Wrong continent for that. Now if he was on active duty in the IDF you would have an argument.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

If you think this is legit reason to suicide. You’re as stupid and crazy as the dead guy.

HerbalGamer ,
@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

That my friends, is a cowardly and selfish act.

Forcing people to stay alive against their will while they suffer in one way or another because you can’t deal with missing them is cowardly and selfish.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Mental illness can be treated. This guy had issues that needed help. Not gasoline and a match.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Unless you were his psychiatrist this is just armchair conjecture.

lanolinoil ,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

I think we can have compassion for people who commit suicide because of suffering and are young, but not think it’s a good or ideal thing. I think the protest here or euthanasia because you’re old/sick is a different thing.

For everyone (for me) condoning suicide too much – I always think about it like this:

We were dead for billions of years and we will be dead for billions of years. This little sub 100 year run we all have is just a flash in the pan and even if you’re not having a good time at all and think you can’t ever have a good time, surely just sticking it out for the novelty if nothing else is better in most cases of suffering than checking out too early. We’ll all be back there soon enough.

philo ,

Compassion, of course. Put it this way, the National Review (a conservative piece of toilet paper someone forgot to flush) put out a hit piece about this saying all sorts of bullshit. I mean so you disagree with his politics, he broke a military rule, so fucking what? He’s dead, mourn him don’t trash talk him, and show everyone you’re a subhuman piece of scum (his name is Luther Ray Abel from Sheboygan Wisconsin, do your worst to him please). I still think suicide is a selfish and cowardly act and only hurts those who love you.

Nudding ,

I still think suicide is a selfish and cowardly act and only hurts those who love you.

Nobody asks to be born. You should be able to leave when you want.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Indeed

Flyberius ,
@Flyberius@hexbear.net avatar

Sadly there are still a lot of vile people on Lemmy. A lot less than Reddit, but still plenty

Omega_Haxors ,

They stick to the same 3 instances.

iAmTheTot ,
@iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

Can we please not call people who set themselves on fire role models?

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Aaron Bushnell is a fucking role model

I wish I had half the courage it took

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Moron

WldFyre ,

I don’t get this, I’m sure right-wingers would wish you had the courage, too. Why would you idolize this instead of looking at it like a tragedy?

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Because I am not going to disrespect a deep and meaningful selfless act like his. I’m not so disrespectful

WldFyre ,

Lol sure. I don’t think it makes sense to have the same goals as a Zionist, personally. You and a Zionist both wish you were “courageous” enough to kill yourself, I don’t see how that could possibly improve things.

MedicPigBabySaver ,

No. Dumbass. This is pointless. He would’ve been much more effective with a sign and bullhorn protesting all day, every day.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

Pretty tacky to explain to a person who made such a huge impact what he should have done

Also uncivil to call me a d*mbass for respecting this man. Reported.

AmidFuror ,

It's not like the commenter started a seance....

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I wish he had another choice. We failed him by not being organized enough to welcome him as a comrade. Instead he chose to do the only thing he could. I admire his courage, but it’s a damn shame we lost someone willing to die for Palestinians.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

We’ve failed him, we’ve failed the Palestinians, we’ve failed our immigrants and refugees, we’ve failed our LGBTQ+ people and people of color, we’ve failed our poor. The story of America is a story of one failure after another.

And I say “America” even though this is world news, because he was American.

ULS ,

Sometimes I have this thought that feels like a realization that it was never even about “the people” or “freedom” to begin with.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

It was about creating an in-group and implementing a caste system under the deceptive guise of democracy. What it’s never actually been is democratic or free.

jack ,

He was actively involved in anarchist organizing with Serve the People in Akron, OH.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I wasn’t aware of that, but I say that’s an indictment of their organization; a small org that doesn’t ever get beyond charity work and the occasional street protest could not save him from despair. A few thousand likes on Facebook? Is that the height of the organization he could join in his area? I’m sure they’re trying their best, but we have to get organized on a much larger scale to be able to do anything that matters.

Beyond being an indictment of their org, that’s an indictment of us all. We are not organized enough. Not even close.

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