There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

iridaniotter ,
@iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

The US says it will not “under any circumstances” pay reparations to developing countries hit by climate change-fuelled disasters.

Climate envoy John Kerry made the remarks at a Congress hearing before flying to China to discuss the issue.

The Biden administration really appointed not only a climate denier but also a colonialism denier as the climate envoy lmao. What next, John Kerry proclaims slavery never happened?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s really on the nose when you think about it.

blterrible ,

Of all the countries burning fossil fuels, why does the US get singled out for reparations other than it’s a popular punching bag and the “face” of western capitalism? It’s not like the US is sitting on stacks of cash. Quite the opposite…

www.unep.org/…/state-of-climate.html

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Lots of reasons, starting with the fact that US uses far more energy per capita than most countries. US also imposes its economic system upon the world that necessitates constant growth an consumption. US arguably being the wealthiest country in the word is also in a better position than most countries to actually do something about the problem.

Compare this with China which has an actual plan to transition off fossil fuels that it’s actively implementing. China now leads the world in both nuclear and renewables by a huge margin, and continues to implement clean energy solutions at scale. If China is able to do this, then why is US isn’t puling its weight?

blterrible ,

US uses far more energy per capita than most countries

Incorrect (for a while now). Did you follow the link in my message?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I did, your link doesn’t account for the fact that much of the emissions in places such as China are a consequence of production of commodities that are consumed in the west. What matters is where the products are consumed as opposed to where they’re produced.

iridaniotter ,
@iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Your own source shows the USA using more CO2 per capita than China in 2018, and Wikipedia shows the USA using more electricity per capita in 2019/2021. Where are you getting these stats from? The vibes factory?

iridaniotter ,
@iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Because among the countries that have greatly exceeded their fair share of CO2 emissions, the United States is the largest economy. Your link has some data relevant for future predictions and policy targets. However, when discussing climate reparations we must look elsewhere: cumulative CO2 emissions, technological and economic development, and vulnerability to climate change.

Europe and its settler colonies went on a global rampage for centuries. They built the largest human trafficking operation in human history, enslaving tens of millions of Africans. Wherever they went, they stole people’s land, killed them when they fought back, and then took all of their resources as well. This still exists to this day, but in a less overt manner. It is why we have “developed” countries and “underdeveloped” countries. In reality, we mostly have exploited and exploiter countries. The loot from Africa, Asia, and the Americas kickstarted capitalism in Europe and the settler-colonies, and industrialization via fossil fuel extraction followed thereafter. The cumulative CO2 produced by these countries is not consistent with 1.5°C of warming, yet they expect the countries that they destroyed and left poor to do better while barely helping at all. To make matters worse, the exploiter countries continue to pollute, locking in more global warming. This will inevitably hurt equatorial regions more than themselves.

The US does have stacks of cash, and a decent industrial base as well. With a change of heart (lol), it could embark on a rapid renewable rollout as well as green, non-predatory international finance. Unfortunately, the only country doing something like this is China, which ironically has not wildly overshot its fair share nor engaged in colonialism. Still, China will probably exceed this fair share threshold. If the West was truly concerned about climate change, climate colonial reparations would have begun a couple of decades ago.

goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/atmospheric-appropriation/

blterrible ,

Good luck squeezing blood from that stone.

iridaniotter ,
@iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

What? Are you talking about oil? We need to be doing less extraction of oil, not more.

AlbigensianGhoul ,
@AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Gringos wash their hands of their historical crimes, what a surprise.

exohuman ,
@exohuman@programming.dev avatar

Good luck. Black people in America have been trying to get the USA to pay reparations for generations of enslavement, terrorism, and genocide. We deserve reparations too along with American native peoples. We will never get it though, so I am pretty sure 3rd party nations will never get it either. The only reparations America has paid so far has been to slave owners and Japanese Americans.

Arcane_Trixster ,

Another post about this where people didn’t read the article, but jump to anti-American conclusions. This story is about American politicians arguing semantics. The article says that America does contribute to a fund that was agreed upon by many countries in a summit in Egypt. Whether that is fair is debatable, but America is paying in to it.

Every country is refusing to use the term “reparations” because it implies legal guilt, and no country wants to get “sued” by the world.

Again, this is a pointless argument about semantics, and what term to use.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Thing is that there is legal guilt associated with US colonialism. The atrocities US commits against other countries are well documented, and US backed institutions such as the IMF are directly responsible for perpetuating the economic relations that have created the climate crisis. Acknowledging the role US has played in creating the crisis and holding US accountable is far from pointless.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

“Reparations” not only imply guilt, but also justice and fairness. Contributing to a fund that doesn’t cover even a fraction of the damage caused by the US is not nearly good enough and proves that the US should be forced to pay reparations.

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

You realize that paying C02 emissions based on capita for a country makes no sense. If you believe a country should be paying than it pays per country impact. So that would stipulate that China needs to be paying twice what the U.S. does… which I somehow imagine you aren’t going to agree with.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

You have to account for outsourcing of industry when considering emissions. If the emissions are coming from China, but they’re coming from a US-based company that’s making products for people in the US, then you can’t really blame China for those emissions. It’s certainly not a simple matter, but let’s not pretend like this is some impossible thing to measure.

China must pay its fair share to help save the world, but determining “fair share” is more complicated than just determining how much carbon came from within the borders of the country.

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

Measure by emissions within your country. If China allows a company to operate within their borders they are responsible for said fees. Pass the fees to those companis if you wish, but they are their lands. The companies will move elsewhere if the fees are to high or find alternative ways to do business producing less emissions. It really isn’t tough to figure out.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

China has only been allowed to grow as much as it has because it has played nice with American capitalism, so can you even imagine the global economic and geopolitical melt down that would cause? If China started forcing all polluting industries to either clean up or get out of their country it would cause the greatest economic depression in history, start a new Cold War, and probably lead to World War 3.

LifeInMultipleChoice , (edited )

More likely it would just get negotiated that costs needed to be less per emissions and then they had x years to make efforts to prove they are mitigating as much as possible. And the same old shit would carry on as it is right now.

(Not saying this is what I want, just that this is how it seems)

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

What on Earth does “costs needed to be less per emissions” mean?

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

Same bullshit as always. No one will end up paying an amount that will “re-pay” sufficiently. Instead it just goes back to hoping tech advancments move us to cleaner energy quickly.

(Aka. If they were going to pay x per footprint, they instead would pay x/y)

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

(Aka. If they were going to pay x per footprint, they instead would pay x/y)

… okay so x/y is the same as x per y

meters per second = meters / seconds

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Force = Mass x Acceleration

    wth dude

    LifeInMultipleChoice ,

    You’re right, I was clearly tired. I deleted the post saying divide instead of multiply haha. I need to catch up on some sleep.

    AlbigensianGhoul ,
    @AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    That fund’s goal doesn’t even cover $1B per country and is done voluntarily from good will and even private institutions. From the other article you can see that the fund is basically just an investment gig for loans rather than donations out their well intentioned hearts. The USA has to pay compensation for Operation Condor at the very least, and that should not be something they can just opt out of. And that should only be the start if they want to get treated like allies and equals.

    iridaniotter ,
    @iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    We’re going to need a JDPON to get America to pay its tens of trillions of dollars reparations debt, huh?

    zoe ,

    country run by old fart boomers, what do u expect ? they used to have everything handed to them with no effort in life. also boomers are the worst gen ever: they think the world revolves around them and dont believe in taking and giving back.

    Badtouchspez ,

    I expected as much. The US does not give a shit about developing countries unless it can exploit them.

    DougHolland ,
    @DougHolland@lemmy.ml avatar

    Climate change is largely America’s fault, so Kerry’s statement seems asinine to me, and quickly erases the already low levels of respect I’ve had for him.

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Indeed, it’s the typical colonial mindset where the rest of the world has to pay for American hubris.

    zephyreks ,

    Turns out a weak regulatory environment leads to more environmental impact, I guess.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •