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ShroOmeric ,

Hamas and the IDF are made of the same criminal substance. They’re one and the same.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

I’m going to stop calling this the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and start calling it the Canaanite Civil War

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

Free Palestinians from Hamas

HappycamperNZ ,

That would be an acceptable stopgap measure.

capital ,

Jan 26, 2006

Fatah supporters took to the streets of Ramallah last night to celebrate a victory that was not theirs. The exit polls got it wrong. The faction founded by the late Yasser Arafat had not, in fact, won a narrow victory. Instead, it was roundly defeated by the radical Islamic organization Hamas.

And by day, it was Hamas supporters who were jamming the streets. Running in their first national electoral outing, Hamas candidates won a huge victory, securing 76 seats to Fatah’s 43 in the Palestinian Legislative Council.

pbs.org/…/hamas-wins-palestinian-authority-electi…

hassanmckusick ,

Ok now do one about how Palestine was promised the right to self governance (in 5 years) in 95 and why it took till 2006 for that election to happen. Make sure your answer includes the US for full credit

capital ,

This is straight up, unmasked whataboutism. Yes, what you brought up also is bad.

BUT. My comment was a direct reply to a comment suggesting the people of Palestine don’t support Hamas so I was dispelling that particular fiction.

hassanmckusick ,

This is straight up, unmasked whataboutism.

Asking why something happened is “whataboutisim”? Cmon dude, try harder

capital ,

Literally, yes.

Read up: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

You can’t stay on topic. Why is that? I’ll help, it’s because you don’t want to admit I’m right and you’re grasping at anything rather than let yourself acknowledge it.

I’ll help some more. This excerpt exactly explains what you did:

denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation

hassanmckusick ,

but retorted with a critical counter-question

I’m gonna have to ask you to find the question mark in my original response.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

What’s the date today? That was over 17 years ago. NOW the Gazan people are prisoners of Hamas. They need to be freed.

Akisamb ,

They are prisoners of Hamas

Hamas is controlling Gaza through a dictatorship yes. But their ideas are popular.

Even more radical political parties like Lion’s den or Palestinian islamic jihad having higher approval ratings.

That said even Fatah is more popular than Hamas.

washingtoninstitute.org/…/polls-show-majority-gaz…

capital , (edited )

June 15, 2021

The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.

apnews.com/…/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e13…

There’s the latest I could find. I’m open to seeing a later one but I’d be surprised to see a large swing in support in just a few years given the history.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

53% is very low from people knowing Hamas will murder them if they oppose them.

capital ,

Let’s plant a flag here and acknowledge that we’ve moved from “that poll is old” to “these polls can’t be trusted”.

Were Fatah supporters murdered for voting against and then (prematurely) PUBLICLY celebrating Hamas’ loss? I couldn’t find anything with a quick search. Maybe you could link me?

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

These people ‘vote’ with a gun held to their head. Do you understand how things work under authoritarian rule?

capital ,

Were Fatah supporters murdered for voting against and then (prematurely) PUBLICLY celebrating Hamas’ loss? I couldn’t find anything with a quick search. Maybe you could link me?

hh93 ,

That’s what Israel is trying tbh

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s a good thing and the only way for any peace to begin.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

Yes, I'm sure Hamas was just holding back this whole time. /s

fubo ,

So Hamas is going to… rape and murder more civilians? We already expected that. That’s their specialty.

They murder Palestinians too, for the crime of not wanting to be human shields for Hamas.

You can’t be pro-Palestine without being anti-Hamas.

BassTurd ,

What if I’m anti Israel and anti Palestine?

Bonesince1997 ,

Maybe sit this one out

BassTurd ,

Nah, fuck both sides. Indiscriminate killing is indiscriminate killing. Hamas is bad but carpet bombing hospitals isn’t better.

Zorque ,

So... why lump all of Palestine in with Hamas?

BassTurd ,

Admittedly I just realized I misread the initial post I responded to. I thought it said, you can’t be pro-palistine without being pro-hamas. None the less, nobody’s have are clean in this conflict.

Zorque ,

I'd say the children killed by both Israeli bombings and Hamas rockets are probably pretty fuckin' clean.

BassTurd ,

Right, which is why I think both sides suck. The gray is that there is a lot more history then the last couple of weeks. None of it justifies current actions, but it’s not black and white…

PatFussy ,

Why lump all Isrealites with Netanyahu policy? Its a 2 way street

Deiskos ,

“It’s NoT iSrAeL iT’S jUsT nEtAnYaHu” smells very much like “It’s NoT rUsSiA iT’S jUsT pUtIn”.

curiousaur ,

Why stop there, it also smells like “it’s not Palestine, it’s just hamas.”

HappycamperNZ ,

Sucks to be you???

Or great because both will suffer.

photonic_sorcerer ,
@photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Believing both sides to be deeply flawed doesn’t instantly make you into someone who celebrates death!

BassTurd ,

Ideally nobody would suffer. Reality doesn’t work that way though, but that doesn’t mean I’m cool with genocide.

HappycamperNZ ,

I like to describe it as I’m not pessimistic, just a realist.

BassTurd ,

The dad truth.

SYLOH ,

A stance of “Both sides are bad” is just a stance that favors the Status Quo.
The underdog needs the extra assistance, the superior doesn’t.
So for that reason I’m pro-Israel, don’t want either side winning, don’t want aid to either side, so that defaults to a pro-Israel stance.
I’m comfortable being labeled as such.

BassTurd ,

I get it. It’s a dirty situation with tons of gray area. I think Israel has the edge in higher ground, but every new article that comes out of their atrocities erodes away that high ground.

filister ,

Sorry what high ground has Israel. Over the years they proved how morally corrupt they are. And the civilian casualties are way higher on the Palestinian side.

Checking the historical number of kids and women who succumbed on both sides is showing a terrifying trend.

This recent escalation just proves once again how bad they are.

goat ,

bravest soul on lemmy

TheBlue22 ,

Like anti Israel (government and civilians) and anti Hamas (hamas and civilians) ?

gmtom ,

Then you’re just an edgy misanthrope

soulre4ver ,

Nobody cares you gonna die like all of us and your opinion will die with you.

TransplantedSconie ,

They set fire to babies. They already let the “Go Max Barbarian” toothpaste out of the tube. There’s no putting that shit back.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Read about proximity shielding. It’s a made up kind of human shielding Israel and other countries have used as a shortcut to not be seen as committing a clear war crime.

Israel brings death and genocide to the Palestinians, Israel is Nazi Germany in this scenario.

fubo ,

Hamas literally put a terrorist HQ under a hospital. Stop.

snek , (edited )
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Even if they did it can never justify killing the people in the hospital. Stop.

Edit: notice the downvoted to a statement that says nothing justifies killing completely unrelated civilians.

Yes this is the world we live in now.

Vqhm ,

Rule 28. Medical units exclusively assigned to medical purposes must be respected and protected in all circumstances. They lose their protection if they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy.

ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/…/rule28#….

the protection of medical units ceases when they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy. This exception is provided for in the First and Fourth Geneva Conventions and in both Additional Protocols.[37] It is contained in numerous military manuals and military orders.[38] It is also supported by other practice.[39]

While the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocols do not define “acts harmful to the enemy”, they do indicate several types of acts which do not constitute “acts harmful to the enemy”, for example, when the personnel of the unit is armed, when the unit is guarded, when small arms and ammunition taken from the wounded and sick are found in the unit and when wounded and sick combatants or civilians are inside the unit.[40] According to the Commentary on the First Geneva Convention, examples of acts harmful to the enemy include the use of medical units to shelter able-bodied combatants, to store arms or munitions, as a military observation post or as a shield for military action.[41]

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah except the majority of the dead were civilians. Israel has no proof of this anyway, and there being tunnel under the hospital does not mean any medical staff is cooperating.

Just a license for genocide.

Vqhm ,

Unfortunately based on the rules of was the medical staff do not have to cooperate, or even be aware, simply storing weapons, or a command center, or staging armed soldiers for war next to a hospital removes the protections.

The rules of war aren’t about making things perfect, they’re very much a do not let perfect be the enemy of good and filled with compromises.

If you want protections for medical staff you have to clear a section of ground for them that isn’t used for war.

I didn’t make these rules. These rules were agreed to in order to try to prevent total war. Where carpet bombs flattened entire cities like what happened in Dresden.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

That’s BS. Proximity shielding is used to excuse war crimes. You should not kill people especially if they aren’t even aware. Using it as an excuse for murder is propaganda.

curiousaur ,

Um… telegraph.co.uk/…/pro-palestine-protest-sydeny-op…

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Oct 27 (Reuters) - Two U.S. fighter jets struck weapons and ammunition facilities in Syria on Friday in retaliation for attacks on U.S. forces by Iranian-backed militia as concerns grew that the Israel-Hamas conflict may spread in the Middle East.

The U.S. air strikes took place at roughly 4:30 a.m. on Friday (0130 GMT) near Abu Kamal, a Syrian town on the border with Iraq, and were carried out by two F-16 fighter jets using precision munitions, a U.S. defence official said.

“These precision self-defence strikes are a response to a series of ongoing and mostly unsuccessful attacks against U.S. personnel in Iraq and Syria by Iranian-backed militia groups that began on October 17,” U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement.

Biden has sent a rare message to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warning Tehran against targeting U.S. personnel in the Middle East, the White House said earlier on Thursday.

Israel said on Friday military raids into Gaza were preparing “the next stage of the operation”, amid fears that a ground invasion of the Palestinian enclave could spark a wider Middle East conflict.

A missile launched as part of fighting between Hamas and Israel struck an Egyptian resort town about 220 km (135 miles) from the Gaza Strip early on Friday, Egypt’s Al Qahera News reported, citing sources.

The original article contains 850 words, the summary contains 221 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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