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PeckerBrown ,

I hate war, but Ukraine hates dying. Beat Putin’s ass, and Slava Ukraini!

SoPunny ,
@SoPunny@lemmy.world avatar

War sucks, and most veterans and their families know it. But when forced to fight Ukraine is standing, and I hope that Western support doesn’t waiver. I’m sure Putin is hoping to interfere in moar elections as an out.

Could you imagine if his lil orange minion was in power?

Shudders.

Ps, people make sure you are registered to vote.

brain_in_a_box ,

The moment I realised that the USA was unavoidably moving towards fascism was when the so called political left collectively decided that the problem wasn’t anything internal, it was just that evil, perfidious foreigners had corrupted the innate goodness of America.

Now downvote away, fascists.

bluebarcode ,

What you said probably makes sense within the paradigm of Kremlin’s propaganda. But in the real world it’s just a pile of word garbage.

administrator ,

All I can say is Slavi Ukraine! Stay strong and I hope you persevere.

Blissingg ,

Opening the comments section of stories like this is always a real eye opener for the type of people lemmy has attracted kinda sad.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

What’s sad is how little our country knows of war outside of the US propaganda machine. We spend more on war in one year than the next ten countries combined, and those countries mostly have health care systems that don’t bankrupt their people. Canada, for instance, spends a mere 23 billion a year on war.

We on the other hand don’t have health care so our country can involve itself in eight or nine wars at once, and our people think it’s a good thing because they can’t form a coherent thought outside of what they’re being told on Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC.

Airazz ,

US spends about as much per capita on healthcare as many other developed countries. The issue is that your insurance companies pocket a lot of it. Be angry at them, not at Ukraine or the weapons going to Ukraine.

assembly ,

No kidding. Who is honestly against moves like this? I mean very few issues are black and white and defending Ukraine is as close to being on the right side of history as one can get. They were invaded by a much larger country that suppressed them for so long. They are a democracy that is trying really hard to further the will of their people. Russians are committing genocide against the local population. Supporting Ukraine and watching the Ukrainians fight back for their freedom is one of the few great parts of history that inspires.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

Who is honestly against moves like this? I mean very few issues are black and white and defending Ukraine is as close to being on the right side of history as one can get.

Says every single chickenhawk in this country every time there’s a war. There is always an excuse.

Vietnam: They attacked us in the Gulf of Tonkin (which was false) and we have to fight communism!

Iraq 1983: We have to help Saddam Hussein defeat Iran. It’s the right thing to do!

Iraq 2003: They did 9/11 and they have WMD’s! (They didn’t.) We killed a few hundred thousand Iraqis anyway just to make Halliburton a shit-ton of money.

Afghanistan: The Taliban is evil! (True, but that doesn’t mean we should go bankrupt policing them permanently.)

And it’s only a matter of time before any justifications for Ukraine blow up in your faces too. There’s already been a ton of reporting on the corruption in the Ukrainian government this year. We’ll learn more about that as we get even further entrenched into this war.

dystop ,
@dystop@lemmy.world avatar

What has corruption got to do with Russia invading them?

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

It has to do with our leaders funneling our tax dollars through their war, obv.

Weirdmusic ,
@Weirdmusic@lemmy.world avatar

If you’d been paying attention you’d notice that since 2014 the Ukrainians have been modernising their political and military. The previous governments were infamously corrupt and were dislodged by a popular uprising. This government has made great strides to uproot systemic corruption. It’s not perfect but they are certainly improving and need to be encouraged in this and their efforts to dislodge the Russian invaders. Simply parroting Russian talking points (eg: corruption) will not do.

gundog48 ,

You’re right, what excuses do the Russian invaders have for Ukraine? It sure blew up in their faces. And I hope it continues to until the invaders return to their miserable little circle of hell thry built for themselves.

Airazz ,

Except that in this case the situation really is black and white, no grey area. A peaceful sovereign country was invaded by some genocidal fucks and it is our duty to help them. Corruption is not an excuse to stop the support, because Ukraine is actively trying to sort it out too. They know what life is like in the EU and they want more of that.

For the record, I live in EU, some 60 miles from the nearest russian military base. I have personal interest in Ukraine’s victory because if it falls, then my country might be next.

brain_in_a_box ,

Yup, no gray area at all, just like every other time. This is exactly what the warhawks said about the war on terror.

Airazz ,

Why do you have to bring whataboutism into this? I’m not talking about the past, I’m talking about this current war right now. It’s extremely clear who are the good guys here.

brain_in_a_box ,

Yeah yeah, just like you all claimed it was “extremely clear who are the good guys here” when you genocided Iraq.

Maybe you should talk about the past, so you stop repeating it.

dangblingus ,

garbage take

sincle354 ,

America will always fight wars because their interests in resources, political alliances, and ideological stability. It's for the money. It's always the money at the end.

America is the cultural and military hegemon due to the proliferation of free trade enforced through an unmatched navy. America becomes more powerful by maintaining this status quo. It's why dangers to the oil supply have driven 3 out of the 4 examples you rightfully point out. Sadly the Middle East is the oilbasket of the world with the worst borders ever designed. If you want energy, you spread influence there.

However, there is one instance where the interests of the USA align with the general interest of the average Westerner.

People don't like democracies getting invaded. And potential democratic trade partners getting invaded is bad for business. You can have both at the same time. I will not defend the Gulf War under this banner, but the faster that we can prove that land grabs are nonnegotiable in this Pax Americana, the better.

And also, you don't have to convince me that war is inefficient. I've read Catch-22. But you do have to convince me that the destabilization of the breadbasket of Europe (and the world) is less important than the opportunity cost of a couple million lost to a few hundred corrupt officials.

OwlPaste ,

Except if you actually lived in Russia in the 80-90’s moved to the west, saw the life here and look where putler is going towards with his so called “rule of law”, you would actually understand why it matters to stop that idiot. Out of the two clearly both evil, self serving entities of Nato or Russia, I know under which I would much rather live, even if neither is perfect.

Corruption happens everywhere, look at a UK, scandal after scandal, after scandal, do those involved in scandals resign? You wish they did, no those cocks cling on to power like a bad std. Only recently we had a string of relatively high profile resignation which had to be forced.

Sorry ranted on, but really the problem is that putlers regime is actually evil, Ukranians are dying to protect the rest of Europe from them. So paying for sending weapons to them is the least that I think I can personally do. For America it is better to stop putler before he attacks a Nato country and you would have to send your soldiers on the ground here.

(By the way, I agree with your Iraq statement, it was always about resources, and so is this war for putler, just look where “conveniently” gas deposits were found in 2012…)

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

What I see are some dissenting opinions and then people parroting US government talking points browbeating and downvoting them. Russia is absolutely wrong for invading Ukraine, but let’s not overlook the US government using Ukraine as a pawn to advance its own geopolitical ambitions, similar to how it benefited from arming groups in Afghanistan when Russia invaded there.

I’m hoping Lemmy provides for more nuanced and diverse discussion instead of brigading and shouting down of opinions simply for going against the officially-approved narrative of the US government.

rook ,
@rook@lemmy.world avatar

hated for being world police but also hated for not “doing something” about international injustices. US can’t win.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

International injustices like the US helping the Saudis genocide Yemenis? The problem is that the US is self-serving in its self-appointed role of world police. They don’t care about injustices and only use (or even create) them as excuses to carry out selfish geopolitical objectives.

rook ,
@rook@lemmy.world avatar

no like north korea threating to glass its neighbor, or russia threatening to glass europe, or china claiming that taiwan belongs to them, or ISIS saying that all non-muslims deserve death, but yeah cherry pick all ya want

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

North Korea is all bark and no bite. North Korea benefits China by acting as a buffer and benefits the US by strengthening ties between the US and South Korea and Japan. There is no interest in changing this arrangement.

Russia didn’t get this way over night. The USSR collapsed and the US capitalized on the situation by enforcing markets in a way to grab wealth. There were many opportunities to rehabilitate and allow Russia to participate in the world as a peer but that went against the US need for an enemy and to dominate them, as evidenced by the Wolfowitz doctrine. Russia’s economy was terrible and Putin did well for himself betting on oil which gave the Russian economy some stability and which is how he got popular. You’ll find that the price of oil collapsed in 2014 and the protests were happening in Ukraine around that time threatening the puppet he had there.

Just watch as the plan is spelled out for you on American television: cc.com/…/the-colbert-report-crisis-in-ukraine-gid…

As for ISIS: www.theguardian.com/…/us-isis-syria-iraq

133arc585 ,
@133arc585@lemmy.ml avatar

Nobody in their right mind is hating on the USA for not being world police. It’s just White Man’s Burden in disguise. Oh dear me you’re so burdened by having to civilize the rest of the world, boohoo. Nobody asked them to, people even push back against it, and yet they do it anyway and then have the gall to complain about how much doing so is inconvenient. Then, two minutes later, the USA will complain about “sovereignty” and pretend they aren’t encroaching on sovereignty every time they pretend to be world police.

zacher_glachl ,

I gotta say, the tankie infestation of the fediverse is giving me serious second thoughts about this place. I get that it will get better over time as more people join and dilute the crazies, but I currently have a very hard time suggesting lemmy to people because of this.

andrei_chiffa ,

It’s fediverse. You don’t like an instance, you create your own and defederate from the ones you don’t like. That’s the nice thing about it.

zacher_glachl ,

So what, am I going to defederate from lemmy.world which is like the most generic possible instance but posts there still attract these loonies? At that point I can just ditch the fediverse because it’s useless as a reddit replacement.

brain_in_a_box ,

Good, go back to reddit if you want a neoliberal echo chamber.

expatriado ,

maybe you shouldn’t leave your brain in a box

Blursty ,

I guess you’ve no problem with the open Nazis on here? Says a lot about you.

zacher_glachl ,

No, that doesn’t “say a lot about me” at all. I keep having to block tankies and similar shit bubbling up from lemmygrad. I’ve not seen an open nazi post here yet but if I see one be assured it gets the banhammer as well and “nazis” gets added to my growing list of “insane fringe groups prominent on lemmy which I never had to interact with on reddit”.

NSA_Server_04 ,

Ah yes. More dollars spent where we shouldn’t be spending it.

scarabic ,

I wish we didn’t need to do this but honestly this is some of the best spent military funds I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s all hardware, manufactured by the US. So that’s jobs. None of it is death payouts to American families like we had to do in Desert Storm. Russia richly deserves the fight. We’re getting a lot of help from other countries.

I wish we didn’t need to do this but since we do, fine.

Blursty ,

undefined> It’s all hardware, manufactured by the US. So that’s jobs.

Jesus Christ. Half a million dead for your stinking jobs. Shame on you.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

? Half a million dead in Russia’s war of conquest is….the US’ fault?

What would Russia need to do in their war of conquest for the deaths to be on them, the invader actively pulling the trigger and killing people?

Blursty ,

Of course it's the US's fault! WTF?

Nothing, this war is 100% America's war.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

Is Russia not a sovereign country, do they not have the ability to make their own decisions? Or is Russia so weak they simply follow Uncle Sam wishes?

applejacks ,
@applejacks@lemmy.world avatar

glad to see this site isn't entirely filled with braindead morons.

novelpetals ,

Wow you really are an elitist asshole

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

It’d be really nice if our legislators would stop giving warmongers a blank check. We could use that billion in so many better ways here.

IgnoreKassandra ,
@IgnoreKassandra@lemmy.world avatar

Warmongers being… the country currently undergoing a genocide from a global superpower? If you come to my home and shoot my kid, I’m not a warmonger for returning fire.

And the idea that the reason our programs at home are underfunded is a result of foreign aid is complete bullshit. They could fund those programs in a heartbeat at any time with or without a war. We could absolutely do both, the reason we don’t is because none of your politicians give a shit about you, unrelated to what’s going on in the world.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

Warmongers being… the country currently undergoing a genocide from a global superpower? If you come to my home and shoot my kid, I’m not a warmonger for returning fire.

Here your kids are getting shot to death in schools, but as far as oppressive global superpowers go, read up on how the US has been helping Saudi Arabia starve and decimate Yemen for the last eight years. But, to be clearer, the warmongers I refer to are the ones taking a trillion of our tax dollars every year and funneling them into their own companies and the other eight wars we’re already hopelessly entangled in.

I’m all for Ukraine fighting this war… on their own. I just don’t appreciate seeing our people impoverished and neglected because of it.

And the idea that the reason our programs at home are underfunded is a result of foreign aid is complete bullshit.

False. Canada spends $23 billion a year on war. They have universal health care. We 100% lack universal health care because we’re spending over a trillion a year on war, and now, another $1,015,000,000 billion on another country’s war. (On top of the tens of billions we already gave them in charity.)

IgnoreKassandra ,
@IgnoreKassandra@lemmy.world avatar

We’re not talking about Saudi Arabia and Yemen, we’re talking about Ukraine.

I’m all for Ukraine fighting this war… on their own.

So you’re in favor of them being conquered and ethnically clensed. That’s what happens without material support from western powers.

I just don’t appreciate seeing our people impoverished and neglected because of it.

The American people were impoverished and neglected before the war in Ukraine, and they will be after. Letting Russia wipe out a vulnerable ethic group won’t get you free healthcare.

Regardless, we could fund a universal healthcare system half a dozen different ways, and the American people would still save money not having to pay subsidies. The idea that it’s a hard thing to fund in the richest country in the world is one of the biggest lies i government. The reason we don’t have one isnt because we can’t come up with the funds, it’s that your politicians hate you and love pharma money.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

The American people were impoverished and neglected before the war in Ukraine, and they will be after. Letting Russia wipe out a vulnerable ethic group won’t get you free healthcare.

You all said the same thing about Afghanistan. 20 years and several trillion dollars later, and it was 100% a waste.

So you’re in favor of them being conquered and ethnically clensed. That’s what happens without material support from western powers.

I’m in favor of my tax dollars going to keeping Americans alive for once, instead of being spent on yet another war we shouldn’t be involved in in the first place.

Regardless, we could fund a universal healthcare system half a dozen different ways

Agreed, and chief among would be spending hundreds of billions less on other countries’ wars, and also not being involved in eight of them at the same time.

kurwa ,

The only thing you should be pushing for is the war to stop, but I think not helping is worse. Letting Russia take over Ukraine would be awful. At the same time, not pushing for peace 100% of the time is sad.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

Letting Russia take over Ukraine would be awful

It’s also awful that tens of millions of Americans can’t afford to go to a doctor, but I don’t see you calling for us to spend less on war in order to bolster the welfare of our own people.

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