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Let us show Putin we have ability to hit targets deep inside Russia, Ukraine urges west

Ukraine wants permission from the west to use long-range Storm Shadow missiles to destroy targets deep inside Russia, believing this could force Moscow into negotiating an end to the fighting.

Senior figures in Kyiv have suggested that using the Anglo-French weapons in a “demonstration attack” will show the Kremlin that military sites near the capital itself could be vulnerable to direct strikes.

The thinking, according to a senior government official, is that Russia will consider negotiating only if it believes Ukraine had the ability “to threaten Moscow and St Petersburg”. This is a high-risk strategy, however, and does not so far have the support of the US.

Ukraine has been lobbying for months to be allowed to use Storm Shadow against targets inside Russia, but with little success. Nevertheless, as its army struggles on the eastern front, there is a growing belief that its best hope lies in counter-attack.

IphtashuFitz ,

Sooner or later Ukraine will start manufacturing their own such weapons. They have demonstrated time and again that they the ability to be creative and do what the world never expected of them.

Holding them back at this point is just prolonging the war.

peopleproblems ,

Got no arguments from me here. Bring him hell I say.

What are they gonna do? Bomb your cities, schools, hospitals?

Think we’re past the point of asking for permission at this point.

andrew_bidlaw ,
@andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works avatar

And where’s Putin? The last I’ve heard he was in another country.

badbytes ,

If they claim they are just shooting at Hamas, the US won’t interfere.

PrizerFantastic ,
@PrizerFantastic@lemmy.wtf avatar

Ukraine can eat my shit

DefiantBidet ,

My concern with this approach would be the unhinged retaliatory response from the world’s. Richest dictator. I mean I’m just a pothead from the US so I imagine some military strategist has accounted for this… But it’s kinda hard to imagine how crazy is gonna act

eran_morad ,

We should hasten the destruction of russia as a geopolitical entity. By all means other than direct military confrontation.

thebestaquaman ,

Let them use the ATACMS too.

citrusface ,

Kick them in the balls. They aren’t fighting fair so why should you.

Antmz22 ,

The west is stopping Ukraine from doing this for their own good.

The west wants to drag out the war to bleed out Russia.

Seriously Striking Moscow (for example) would almost certainly result in a swift, all out retaliation from Russia towards Ukraine.

The western media might not like to portray it as such, but this is still largely an excursion using older equipment and avoiding mass mobilization, preferring to send “endesirables” like criminals or the poor, for Russia, while Ukraine has been running out of equipment and men.

This is a case of “fog of war” or not seeing the forest for the trees with Ukraine, the west isn’t as biased in their analysis of the situation.

Stern ,
@Stern@lemmy.world avatar

but this is still largely an excursion using older equipment and avoiding mass mobilization

I’m more inclined to think that that Russia is a paper tiger and the mass corruption in the country has fucked up any modern equipment they have to the point of unusability.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Seriously Striking Moscow (for example) would almost certainly result in a swift, all out retaliation from Russia towards Ukraine.

A large portion of the Russian military has been held in reserve for defense, on the grounds that a full NATO invasion could decapitate the regime (a la Iraq in 2003).

Lemmyites are convinced the Russian military is entirely exhausted and these suicide incursions represent territory Ukrainians can actually hold. But there’s much more of a long game at play, as Europe and Russia wage a proxy was of attrition across Central Europe, Central Africa, and the Middle East.

krashmo ,

The only thing I’m convinced of is the fact that you’re talking like a Russian psy-ops agent. You may not be one but at minimum you’re doing their work for them.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

you’re talking like a Russian psy-ops

I’m old enough to remember “Baghdad Bob” from the '03 Iraq invasion. We used to make fun of that shit, but now everyone talks like him.

Russian media insists they’re on the cusp of total victory. Ukrainian media insists the Russians are on the verge of collapse. And disagreeing with either one means you’re a spook.

ricecake ,

Eh, it’s been old equipment and concripts for a bit now, but that’s not what the sent at first.

Trying to take a country using your C team and old hardware and then scaling up if things go badly is a radically bad strategy. It’s a great way to lose your C team, and then send more competent soldiers to fight against a prepared and well defensed enemy.

That might be what Russia did, but if so it’s a show of incompetence about in line with everything else we’ve seen and not some “better slow down” signal.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

They aren’t fighting fair

Who fights fair?

Zerlyna ,
@Zerlyna@lemmy.world avatar

Do it now, ask forgiveness later. It’s the American way.

Thewhizard ,

I know it’s ludicrous to need to ask for permission. I’m sure they won’t get it.

Kbobabob ,

Do you think they would continue being funded and given the equipment if they don’t?

tabarnaski ,

Might be the American way, but it’s mainly Europe that will take the heat in an all out war against Russia.

Also, how does it end? Anyone really thinks Putin will surrender after 3-4 missiles hit Moscow? Come on.

_bcron ,

It’d be a little harder for a lot of civilians to be indifferent towards this whole war if it saunters up and starts banging on their front door

Edit: it’s a metaphor. Dude asked how 3-4 bombs would end the war and most things in a war aren’t meant to outright end it. Right now the whole thing is ‘out of sight out of mind’ for most people but if targeted strikes on infrastructure hit local news you bet you’re ass it’d be demoralizing

cynar ,

The message wouldn’t be to Putin directly. It would be to those both in his power base, or capable of disrupting it.

The goal would be to push Russians to the point they deal with Putin internally, and/or put putin in a position where he needs to end the war to stabilise his own position. It’s all about making the right people feel the effects.

Oh, and as a European, I think the risk is acceptable. If Putin struck at a NATO country, the results would likely be swift and short. The only unknown would be Russian nukes, and even those are far more of an unknown than most people think.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Who would miss the kremlin anyway?

ricecake ,

An all out war is unlikely, since if NATO involvement was going to kick that off it would have done so by now.
The next point of escalation that could start something bigger would be stuff like NATO openly sending troops or actively providing fire support.

US hesitation to allow our hardware to be used for this type of attack is much more to do with the political issues surrounding the war being framed as a proxy war instead of defensive support.
The electorates support for “saving the day” and “superior US hardware helping keep a country free” is high. Support for a protracted and complex proxy war without clear right and wrong sides is exhausting and hits too many Iraq/Afghanistan buttons for people to care.

Asking for and publicly being denied permission to bomb targets adjacent to the capitol does just as well at communicating “we can bomb your capitol” as actually doing it.

Nurse_Robot ,

I assume the risk is if they do strike without approval, the critical support they’re receiving could end

foggy ,

Nah, more like chewed out. 🤠

AngryCommieKender ,

I’ve been chewed out before.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Just ask Cambodia

PrizerFantastic ,
@PrizerFantastic@lemmy.wtf avatar

That’s what you do to your wife

qooqie ,

It’s Israel’s playbook and it works literally every time

sheogorath ,

Israel doesn’t even ask for forgiveness.

DontRedditMyLemmy ,

“Ukraine has the right to defend itself”

MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

The Guardian - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)Information for The Guardian:
> MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United Kingdom
> Wikipedia about this source

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