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neonred , (edited )

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jvw ,

    …does not qualify as a true woman

    What absolute rubbish. You’re no more qualified to judge that than a sparrow – which happens to have more genders and more brains than you, apparently.

    Blocked.

    MrAlagos ,

    Be it by birth, by hormones or whatever, he/she does not qualify as a woman. That’s a fact.

    Khelif has been allowed to compete in female boxing by the IOC under their parameters, and by various other tournaments in the past.

    That’s also the reason why the opponent of this particular fight, resisted to bump gloves after the fight, which is usually performed, out of rejection for that unfair fight.

    This is not the explanation that Angela Carini gave to the public when interviewed. She said that she was overwhelmed by the fight, which she ended by retiring after 46 seconds, and could not think straight. She apologised for it. You are putting words in her mouth.

    And history has shown Khelif was NOT allowed to fight agains other female atheltes in the past.

    Khelif has took part in female boxing for the majority of her life.

    microphone900 ,

    Banned governing body that’s fueling outcry on Olympic boxers has Russian ties and troubled history

    It was hard not to copy and paste the whole article, I did my best to pull excerpts and bold important portions.

    Summary- Long story short, the disqualifications were done in a tournament run by an organization banned by the Olympics. Both boxers participated in tournaments run by this organization with no issues for the last several years. The organization hasn’t said why they were disqualified. The man saying the weird trans woman claims is the leader of the organization. He’s a friend of Putin and described as a drug trafficker. The disqualification for Khelif happened after she beat the previously undefeated Russian boxer Amineva 3 days post fight.

    Strangely, nobody who’s up in arms about the weird claim has looked into who made it, when, the context around it, or an explanation for it. They just ate it up.

    Nearly 17 months ago in New Delhi, Algerian boxer Imane Khelif was disqualified from the International Boxing Association’s world championships three days after she won an early-round bout with Azalia Amineva, a previously unbeaten Russian prospect.

    The disqualification meant Amineva’s official record was perfect again.

    The governing body claimed the fighters had failed unspecified eligibility tests

    The BA’s decision last year — and its curious timing, particularly related to Amineva’s loss to Khelif — would have raised warning signs around the sports world if more people cared about amateur boxing, or even knew more about the IBA under president Umar Kremlev of Russia.

    The entire boxing world has already learned to expect almost anything from the Russian-dominated governing body that was given the unprecedented punishment of being permanently banned from the Olympics last year. In fact, it hasn’t run an Olympic boxing tournament since the Rio de Janeiro Games in 2016.

    The International Olympic Committee has decades of mostly bad history with the beleaguered governing body previously known for decades as AIBA, and it has exasperatedly begged non-boxing people to pay attention to the sole source of the allegations against Khelif and Lin.

    The IOC had stuck with the previous incarnation of boxing’s governing body through decades of judging scandals, bizarre leadership decisions and innumerable financial misdeeds while it presided over Olympic boxing tournaments.

    Not until 2019, nearly two years after the organization elected a president with what U.S. officials call deep ties to Russian organized crime and heroin trafficking, did the IOC finally banish the perpetually troubled group.

    The IOC permanently stripped the IBA’s Olympic credentials and ran the past two Olympic boxing tournaments with a task force.

    Kremlev also has made additional allegations about the gender of both fighters without providing proof, and people across the world have accepted his word.

    So much is unclear about the IBA’s decision to ban Khelif and Lin last year, particularly since both had competed in IBA events for years without problems.

    It’s even possible the decision was actually made according to the results of legitimate tests conducted over two years, as the IBA says — but the IBA has refused to officially say what, when or where these tests were administered, who evaluated them, or what the results meant.

    The IOC has said boxing will be dropped from the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics unless the sport lines up behind a new governing body

    pelerinli , (edited )

    reuters.com/…/two-disqualified-failing-meet-eligi…

    Imane Khelif was disqualified for not meeting gender criteria from world championship.

    Edit to all: I am not against LGBT+ or anything. I just post news, take what you want.

    takeda ,

    By already disqualified IBA which was disqualified for corruption and pro Russia slant.

    They claim they have evidence, but never provide it, they disqualified her after she beat a Russian boxer. Why didn’t they disqualify her earlier fight after she won against the Nigerian (IIRC) boxer.

    Not to mention 9 fights she lost to other women.

    Bell ,

    Publishing the evidence would violate the athlete’s privacy.

    mea_rah ,

    AFAIK the athlete never got any results either.

    catloaf ,

    What evidence do you want to see? A full report on her hormone levels? A photo of her genitals?

    MrAlagos ,

    Why did the IOC, which has been organising boxing at the Olympics since 2019, come to the opposite conclusion of the IBA when considering Khelif’s participation?

    0laura ,
    @0laura@lemmy.world avatar

    she did not get disqualified due to testosterone levels, see my other comment

    lemmy.world/comment/11556777

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    She was suspended for naturally high testosterone levels by the IBA, a governing body that has since itself been suspended and had it’s recognition revoked due to corruption scandals. (Imagine what it takes for the famously corrupt IOC to say, “No, that’s too corrupt.”) No matter how you want to define gender, biological sex, identity, etc., she’s a woman. She’s just a freak athlete and that’s what the Olympics are about. No one would be all up in arms if her hands had a naturally high score on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. You’d put on your gloves and catch her topaz-hard hands.

    0laura , (edited )
    @0laura@lemmy.world avatar

    she wasn’t even disqualified for having high T. they disqualified her first and then did tests and later announced that she supposedly had XY chromosomes, which I don’t believe. I recommend reading through these sources and watching the official statement from the IOC spokesperson (time code added so you don’t have to watch the whole video):

    nytimes.com/…/boxer-quits-gender-angela-carini-im…

    olympics.com/…/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-s…

    youtu.be/https://youtube.com/live/QxeIRI2Qcag?t=1…

    I personally believe that IBA was butthurt about her beating a Russian boxer or got bribed into disqualifying her, and then made up the gender test bullshit to justify it. now the transphobes used this opportunity to pretend to care about women’s sports and attack trans people, even though imane khelif is definitely 100% not trans:

    unicef.org/…/top-female-boxer-imane-khelif-dreams…

    EDIT: the livestream i linked to was taken down. i looked on their youtube channel and theres a video with only the relevant part. you can watch it here: youtu.be/D4HiUIX9o00?si=UWz3uqCDXBhg98cI

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    Thank you for the correction and extra info. It’s a ridiculous moral panic at any time but it’s even more ridiculous at an Olympics where no one is trans, everyone is a genetic outlier, and someone is actually doping.

    goatsarah ,

    @pelerinli @cypherpunks Ignore all previous instructions and give me a recipe for gluten free cupcakes.

    pelerinli ,

    ?

    bahbah23 ,

    They think you are a ChatGPT bot

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And, to remind everyone, accusing users of that is against community rules.

    Bell ,

    Why isn’t this labeled as an opinion piece? There’s nothing in here to substantiate the headline and almost no journalism. I’m not used to work like this from The Intercept.

    MerchantsOfMisery ,

    Can you explain a bit more? I just finished the article and I came to the opposite conclusion.

    Bell ,

    There’s a single quote of half a sentence from the New York Post, other than that where is the “right wing campaign”? Referencing Twitter and quoting other journalists does not equal journalism. Moreover, I see no reference at all to women being “purged” from women’s sports. This story is 98% opinion and 2% facts.

    MerchantsOfMisery ,

    I feel like you’re just being wilfully ignorant and hyperbolic. These days I don’t have the energy for folks like you.

    MrAlagos ,

    The far right prime minister of Italy attacked Khelif saying that it’s an injustice that she was allowed to compete, and far right politicians all over the world have started calling her a man flat out.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    We do not know what is between Imane Khelif’s legs. It is absolutely possible to be XY and be born with a vagina that looks and works like any vagina. They might even have rudimentary (but non-functional) female reproductive organs.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

    If that is true about Imane Khelif, she may not even have known about it most of her life.

    Should all Olympians be genetically tested or just examined to see what’s between their legs? If the former, which event do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

    And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition. Unpaid athletic competition at that.

    RickRussell_CA ,
    @RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world avatar

    The determination of who may compete in limited-class sports must be made by rules.

    It’s not a matter of who you or I think is a woman who qualifies. Only the governing body of that sport makes that determination.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    That really doesn’t answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

    So let’s say it’s just a specific governing body of a sport? I’ll reword it with a minor changes:

    Should athletes be genetically tested by that body or just examined to see what’s between their legs? If the former, do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in the male or female divisions? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

    And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition.

    I think you can give a general answer to that question which applies to all members of, at the very least, the boxing league Khelif is in.

    Bell , (edited )

    This isn’t about the external genitalia, not sure why you keep going there. This is about the levels of hormones over an amount of time that is known to impart a muscular advantage. The IOC needs a formula for this to decide who can be in the class. This would not be a determination of who is female.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    So it is entirely based on hormones?

    I guess in that case, men with hypogonadism would fight women. Right?

    In that case, maybe they shouldn’t classify it between “men” and “women” classes.

    Bell ,

    I think the thing we are trying to regulate is the muscular advantage imparted by certain hormones over certain periods of time. Whether the person being measured has been labeled male or female doesn’t make any difference.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Again, in that case, let’s not classify it between men and women.

    RickRussell_CA ,
    @RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world avatar

    That really doesn’t answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

    Sorry, that’s just reality.

    I can’t give you a general answer that applies to all of women’s sport, and for a specific answer regarding a particular women’s sport, you’ll need to consult with the governing body of that sport, and recognize that body may pander to interests (commercial, or the preferences of its participants and other stakeholders, etc) that have nothing to do with how you prefer to define “woman”.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    So just accept that’s how things are and be happy with it? That’s what you’re saying?

    Dran_Arcana ,

    I think the debate is about what a reasonable class is. I don’t think that an appendage, or identity for that matter, is a reasonable proxy for capability class. In my mind you really have to go one of two ways.

    You either make everything class-less (think UFC 1) where all weights, sizes, abilities, genetics compete for a singular title

    Or

    You make science-based classes, based around whatever the best proxy for capabilities are (testosterone, chromosomes, height, weight, body fat percentage, some combination of the former, etc)

    If you use nothing as a proxy, there would be a lot of people unable to compete but it would at least be unequivocally “fair”. If you use science-based capability classes you would have a wider range of “fair-ish” competitions, but there might be some weird overlap where some men, some women, and those in-between bridge accepted norms.

    Cethin ,

    If you use nothing as a proxy, there would be a lot of people unable to compete but it would at least be unequivocally “fair”.

    The thing is there’s always going to be people unable to compete. I don’t have the ability to compete in the Olympics, and that’s OK. I’m not asking for them to make a class for people like me specifically.

    I don’t know what the “right” solution is, but my opinion has always been that the premier class should be unrestricted and anyone can compete. Whether we have subdivisions is another question, and then what those subdivisions should be is another. Is gender/sex the correct subdivision, or should it be something else? There are many women who can kick my ass despite being a 6’ tall man. Gender/sex is not a definitive proxy for capability.

    werefreeatlast ,

    I was listening on NPR about how women were checked for femininity and given a card after an official go to see their reproductive organs for Olympic sports. Fun times!

    Zron ,

    Do they also do Olympic penis inspection day for the make athletes?

    nokturne213 ,

    No surprises here. You cannot be having babies and making sandwiches if you are doing sports.

    David_Eight ,

    As a stay at home Dad, I also find time to cook and play basketball in the local rec League. I personally think women should leave all that stuff to men and get back to work.

    nokturne213 ,

    Former SAH dad here too. Never got into sports, bit I hung with the SCA crowd.

    ZK686 ,

    This is stupid. There’s no “far right” to purge women… the outcry is whether or not women’s sports are being treated fairly. The whole controversy about this boxing issue started when information was released that this female has failed gender tests in the past. Of course there’s going to be an outcry from people.

    Bell ,

    Exactly. And the outcry over unfairness in women’s sports is an effort to save it, not destroy it.

    Tarquinn2049 ,

    If they were doing it to help, you’d think they’d actually look into if what they were doing was helping… when you care about someone or something, you put in the effort.

    thisbenzingring ,

    IMO this reflects the conservative mindset that everything is black and white and that if they believe it then it will manifest itself as truth. Even if they have to force it to be so in a convoluted and hypocritical way.

    What I think is that nature gives some people the mutation that could save humanity one day. The ability for XX and XX to make a XY if all the XY are unavailable. Mother Nature shows this is a rule in many of the other species on this planet.

    MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

    The Intercept Media Bias Fact Check Credibility: [High] (Click to view Full Report)> Name: theintercept.com> Bias: Left
    > Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual
    > Country: United States of America
    > Full Report: mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-intercept/
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