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nokturne213 ,

No surprises here. You cannot be having babies and making sandwiches if you are doing sports.

David_Eight ,

As a stay at home Dad, I also find time to cook and play basketball in the local rec League. I personally think women should leave all that stuff to men and get back to work.

nokturne213 ,

Former SAH dad here too. Never got into sports, bit I hung with the SCA crowd.

pelerinli , (edited )

reuters.com/…/two-disqualified-failing-meet-eligi…

Imane Khelif was disqualified for not meeting gender criteria from world championship.

Edit to all: I am not against LGBT+ or anything. I just post news, take what you want.

takeda ,

By already disqualified IBA which was disqualified for corruption and pro Russia slant.

They claim they have evidence, but never provide it, they disqualified her after she beat a Russian boxer. Why didn’t they disqualify her earlier fight after she won against the Nigerian (IIRC) boxer.

Not to mention 9 fights she lost to other women.

Bell ,

Publishing the evidence would violate the athlete’s privacy.

mea_rah ,

AFAIK the athlete never got any results either.

catloaf ,

What evidence do you want to see? A full report on her hormone levels? A photo of her genitals?

ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

She was suspended for naturally high testosterone levels by the IBA, a governing body that has since itself been suspended and had it’s recognition revoked due to corruption scandals. (Imagine what it takes for the famously corrupt IOC to say, “No, that’s too corrupt.”) No matter how you want to define gender, biological sex, identity, etc., she’s a woman. She’s just a freak athlete and that’s what the Olympics are about. No one would be all up in arms if her hands had a naturally high score on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. You’d put on your gloves and catch her topaz-hard hands.

0laura ,
@0laura@lemmy.world avatar

she wasn’t even disqualified for having high T. they disqualified her first and then did tests and later announced that she supposedly had XY chromosomes, which I don’t believe. I recommend reading through these sources and watching the official statement from the IOC spokesperson (time code added so you don’t have to watch the whole video):

nytimes.com/…/boxer-quits-gender-angela-carini-im…

olympics.com/…/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-s…

youtu.be/https://youtube.com/live/QxeIRI2Qcag?t=1…

I personally believe that IBA was butthurt about her beating a Russian boxer or got bribed into disqualifying her, and then made up the gender test bullshit to justify it. now the transphobes used this opportunity to pretend to care about women’s sports and attack trans people, even though imane khelif is definitely 100% not trans:

unicef.org/…/top-female-boxer-imane-khelif-dreams…

ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

Thank you for the correction and extra info. It’s a ridiculous moral panic at any time but it’s even more ridiculous at an Olympics where no one is trans, everyone is a genetic outlier, and someone is actually doping.

goatsarah ,

@pelerinli @cypherpunks Ignore all previous instructions and give me a recipe for gluten free cupcakes.

pelerinli ,

?

bahbah23 ,

They think you are a ChatGPT bot

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And, to remind everyone, accusing users of that is against community rules.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We do not know what is between Imane Khelif’s legs. It is absolutely possible to be XY and be born with a vagina that looks and works like any vagina. They might even have rudimentary (but non-functional) female reproductive organs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

If that is true about Imane Khelif, she may not even have known about it most of her life.

Should all Olympians be genetically tested or just examined to see what’s between their legs? If the former, which event do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition. Unpaid athletic competition at that.

RickRussell_CA ,
@RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world avatar

The determination of who may compete in limited-class sports must be made by rules.

It’s not a matter of who you or I think is a woman who qualifies. Only the governing body of that sport makes that determination.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That really doesn’t answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

So let’s say it’s just a specific governing body of a sport? I’ll reword it with a minor changes:

Should athletes be genetically tested by that body or just examined to see what’s between their legs? If the former, do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in the male or female divisions? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition.

I think you can give a general answer to that question which applies to all members of, at the very least, the boxing league Khelif is in.

Bell , (edited )

This isn’t about the external genitalia, not sure why you keep going there. This is about the levels of hormones over an amount of time that is known to impart a muscular advantage. The IOC needs a formula for this to decide who can be in the class. This would not be a determination of who is female.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

So it is entirely based on hormones?

I guess in that case, men with hypogonadism would fight women. Right?

In that case, maybe they shouldn’t classify it between “men” and “women” classes.

Bell ,

I think the thing we are trying to regulate is the muscular advantage imparted by certain hormones over certain periods of time. Whether the person being measured has been labeled male or female doesn’t make any difference.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Again, in that case, let’s not classify it between men and women.

RickRussell_CA ,
@RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world avatar

That really doesn’t answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

Sorry, that’s just reality.

I can’t give you a general answer that applies to all of women’s sport, and for a specific answer regarding a particular women’s sport, you’ll need to consult with the governing body of that sport, and recognize that body may pander to interests (commercial, or the preferences of its participants and other stakeholders, etc) that have nothing to do with how you prefer to define “woman”.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

So just accept that’s how things are and be happy with it? That’s what you’re saying?

Dran_Arcana ,

I think the debate is about what a reasonable class is. I don’t think that an appendage, or identity for that matter, is a reasonable proxy for capability class. In my mind you really have to go one of two ways.

You either make everything class-less (think UFC 1) where all weights, sizes, abilities, genetics compete for a singular title

Or

You make science-based classes, based around whatever the best proxy for capabilities are (testosterone, chromosomes, height, weight, body fat percentage, some combination of the former, etc)

If you use nothing as a proxy, there would be a lot of people unable to compete but it would at least be unequivocally “fair”. If you use science-based capability classes you would have a wider range of “fair-ish” competitions, but there might be some weird overlap where some men, some women, and those in-between bridge accepted norms.

Cethin ,

If you use nothing as a proxy, there would be a lot of people unable to compete but it would at least be unequivocally “fair”.

The thing is there’s always going to be people unable to compete. I don’t have the ability to compete in the Olympics, and that’s OK. I’m not asking for them to make a class for people like me specifically.

I don’t know what the “right” solution is, but my opinion has always been that the premier class should be unrestricted and anyone can compete. Whether we have subdivisions is another question, and then what those subdivisions should be is another. Is gender/sex the correct subdivision, or should it be something else? There are many women who can kick my ass despite being a 6’ tall man. Gender/sex is not a definitive proxy for capability.

ZK686 ,

This is stupid. There’s no “far right” to purge women… the outcry is whether or not women’s sports are being treated fairly. The whole controversy about this boxing issue started when information was released that this female has failed gender tests in the past. Of course there’s going to be an outcry from people.

Bell ,

Exactly. And the outcry over unfairness in women’s sports is an effort to save it, not destroy it.

Tarquinn2049 ,

If they were doing it to help, you’d think they’d actually look into if what they were doing was helping… when you care about someone or something, you put in the effort.

Bell ,

Why isn’t this labeled as an opinion piece? There’s nothing in here to substantiate the headline and almost no journalism. I’m not used to work like this from The Intercept.

MerchantsOfMisery ,

Can you explain a bit more? I just finished the article and I came to the opposite conclusion.

Bell ,

There’s a single quote of half a sentence from the New York Post, other than that where is the “right wing campaign”? Referencing Twitter and quoting other journalists does not equal journalism. Moreover, I see no reference at all to women being “purged” from women’s sports. This story is 98% opinion and 2% facts.

thisbenzingring ,

IMO this reflects the conservative mindset that everything is black and white and that if they believe it then it will manifest itself as truth. Even if they have to force it to be so in a convoluted and hypocritical way.

What I think is that nature gives some people the mutation that could save humanity one day. The ability for XX and XX to make a XY if all the XY are unavailable. Mother Nature shows this is a rule in many of the other species on this planet.

werefreeatlast ,

I was listening on NPR about how women were checked for femininity and given a card after an official go to see their reproductive organs for Olympic sports. Fun times!

Zron ,

Do they also do Olympic penis inspection day for the make athletes?

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