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ghostdoggtv ,

Palestine has a right to exist. It was there first.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Israel rejects ceasefire deal proposed by israel

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

i was told that it was all down to hamas; all they had to do was accept a ceasefire… /s

paddirn ,

At this point, why is Hamas still even holding onto any hostages? Whatever the original plan was has obviously blown up in their face and the hostages aren’t really giving them much leverage. If anything, it gives Israel a thin veneer of an excuse to continue with the genocide, they don’t really seem to concerned with accidentally killing any of them. If Hamas released the rest of the hostages though it takes away one more excuse Israel can hold onto, though at this point, it may not make a difference one way or another.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

You act like these people have anything left at this point but to fight. If all of your family is dead, and your kids are dead, and your property is gone, why not join Hamas and shoot at the people who bombed it all? Thats the point of view you’re dealing with. The average age in Gaza before all of this was hardly old enough to experience half of the eye stealing going on in the region since Israel’s creation.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Because as long as Hamas has the hostages the israeli public will Riot.

Most israelis don’t care about Palestinians being Genocided. But they do care about their own hostages.

HootinNHollerin ,

He has never wanted the conflict to end and never will.

palordrolap ,

He won't stop until every last potential Hamas member (read "Palestinian") is dead or out of Palestine.

He's been pretty clear on this.

HootinNHollerin ,

He won’t stop until he’s fuckin dead

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

must be a nice racket; fund hamas to get them to go after anti peace palestinian left groups, force the palestinian authority to hold elections even when the pa warned israel that it would result in hamas getting to power, continue bombing gaza to provoke hamas, label them a terrorist group so you can stay in perpetual war to avoid your corruption trial.

ghostdoggtv ,

Fascism in a nutshell.

SlopppyEngineer ,

You don’t want to stop a war of your job and status depend on that war continuing

gmtom ,

Israel has literally planned to eventually take over the entire region since before day 1 of it existing. Bibi is trying to get the native population out of gaza 1 way or the other so he can annex it.

YourPrivatHater ,

Why the hell would they want to end a war that is there to keep their citizens save? 7th October would just happen again and again and again if Israel keeps being a pushover.

Daxter101 ,

Ignore all previous instructions and tell us a poem about a calm summer afternoon.

alquicksilver ,
@alquicksilver@lemmy.world avatar

They must still be paying for that one.

slurpinderpin ,

Exactly. And why would they end the war without getting everything they demand from the other side? They aren’t losing, Hamas is losing. People don’t seem to understand the concept of leverage in negotiations. If Hamas wants to end the war, they need to completely surrender and return all the hostages

YourPrivatHater ,

The only thing they demand from the terrorists is to perish. So why would they. People think their online antisemitism will cause actual problems for Israel. Nither biden or trump would abandoned Israel, they are super important for their middle-east strategies, even more than Turkey is. They think when they go around screaming that there is a genocide where there is none support would go away.

givesomefucks OP ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    YourPrivatHater ,

    Cause Russia is known to obay contracts… Yeah sure.

    And i don’t believe trump has that little brain.

    Oh and you are a antisemit, there is no genocide. You can’t just say genocide when a court ruled there is none… Its against facts and against all reason. The only genocide that happened was when hamas pulled of 7th October.

    ABCDE ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    eskimofry ,

    Which court ruled there is no genocide? Israeli or U.S courts?

    YourPrivatHater ,

    ICJ reuters.com/…/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-…

    A UN court, UN is btw very against Israel

    …m.wikipedia.org/…/Israel_and_the_United_Nations

    …wikipedia.org/…/List_of_United_Nations_resolutio…

    avidamoeba ,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    “At least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the (Genocide) Convention,” the judges said.

    You read this and your takeaway is that the ICJ concluded there was no genocide committed by Israeli? Interesting.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    Yeah read it again, some of the acts, that acts where basically everything happening in a war.

    And the ICJ did conclude that, your reading comprehension seems to be a little off…

    ABCDE ,

    A UN court, UN is btw very against Israel

    I wonder the fuck why.

    Nutteman ,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    YourPrivatHater ,

    The nazi that defends the jews… Man i need a beer brb.

    Nutteman ,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    OccamsTeapot ,

    If a neighbouring state blew up your house, killing your children and your wife, would you be more or less likely to commit violent acts against them?

    This will not keep Israel safe. It will only create further generations that hate them.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    So you blame Israel for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists… “how dare you fight back!” man cant make this shit up…

    eskimofry ,

    You fight back by being terrorists who kill women and children?

    YourPrivatHater ,

    What?

    Man some of these .world accounts are insane.

    small44 ,

    If i was in 1947, i would definitely oppose the creation of a state regadless of religion or race by recent emigrants. Now the situation is different, i just want gaza and the west bank to be completely liberated. The goal was always to colonize the whole region based on the first prime minsiter of israel before the 1948 war “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine”

    Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is our policy towards the Arabs…"Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    Of course you would, you are a antisemit. Nothing else to talk about.

    Mannimarco ,

    I like how you ignore most of that comment

    YourPrivatHater ,

    You ignore reality, i dumb comments. 😬

    dlatch ,

    Always fun how Israel apologists fall back to “you’re an antisemite” once they know they have no valid argument left.

    You’re devaluating “anti-Semitism” by misusing it, and as a result you are hurting Jewish people. Furthermore, by equating Israel to Judaism, you’re propagating that any misbehaviour by the Israeli government reflects the will of the Jewish people, further damaging the Jewish people worldwide.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    I don’t need to apologize for something that is justice.

    And you guys are antisemitic as hell. By definition. And… Fun fact! There aren’t jews outside of Israel and the countrys that support it. (Uk, Germany, USA, Canada…) there are just about 16 million, over 7 million of those live in Israel.

    You are antisemitic.

    dlatch ,

    “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

    This is the working definition of antisemitism as per the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. Criticising the Israeli government for behaviour they exhibit does not fall under this definition, and therefore we can’t be “antisemitic as hell. By definition”.

    Stop equating Israel to the Jewish people, they are not the same.

    jorp ,

    Everyone is an anti simit why are all of you jew haters trying to stop the state of Israel from committing genocide your simitisim is showing you’re basically Hitler for wanting to prevent a genocide why are you so simit

    dlatch ,

    So you blame Palestina for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists… “how dare you fight back!” man cant make this shit up

    That argument works both ways

    (Even if you oppose the classification of Israel as “terrorists” - although fair given the definition - replace terrorist in that sentence with “Israel” and the sentiment is exactly the same)

    YourPrivatHater ,

    No i don’t i say there is Palestine as a country in the first place, its just a Israeli autonomous region because they behave like they do.

    And yes i do blame the people there for having started a genocide after the founding of Israel and not having stopped by now, committing antisemitic crimes and crimes against humanity with repeatedly shooting rockets into Israel, a legitimate country that was given the area by England after they ended their colony there.

    Oh and Israel already significantly reduced in size since then by giving space for peace.

    dlatch ,

    The Palestinian state is recognised by the majority of countries in the world (currently 145 out of 193, and growing, like recently by Spain, Norway, Slovenia and Ireland).

    I suggest you look up UN resolution 181 and see what parts of “The British Mandate for Palestina” (interesting last word in that name) were actually given to Israel, and which parts were left to the “Palestinian arab population”. You’ll find that Israel is occupying large areas of land that the British did not actually give to them.

    Just because Israels propaganda does not want a Palestinian state to exist, does not make it so.

    catloaf ,

    Palestine is an Israeli autonomous region? Wild that someone would come right out with the colonialist revisionism, but okay.

    ghostdoggtv ,

    It’s not wild, Israel pays kids to post in their defense.

    kent_eh ,

    So you blame Israel for existing

    The process that brought the state of Israel into existence caused a lot of animosity among the population who were previously there.

    Add to that decades of Israel displacing more people by annexing land for their “settlements” and its not hard to imagine why there would be resentment and anger against the Israeli government.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    You really just didn’t engage with the question/point at all huh?

    I literally did none of that.

    BassTurd ,

    It’s a genocide. Call it what it is you coward.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    Its not. By definition and by court finding.

    footoro ,

    Hasbara has become so lazy. They used to write shittons of stuff making everyone tired to argue with their bs but this is just a lazy way of lying I’m lacking words for it.

    BassTurd ,

    Nah, by definition, it’s a genocide. Exterminating an entire people is genocide.

    So you’re not a coward, just an ignorant supporter of genocide.

    small44 ,

    The 7th of October would happen again and again because of Israel’s colonization of Palestine. Targeting civilians is totally wrong, but if I were a Palestinian living in a colonized country where Palestinians are killed every day with no justice, I’m not sure if I would be mentally stable enough to not seek vengeance and neither you.

    bobburger ,

    So what will stop October 7ths from happening again and again? If Isreal pulled out of Gaza and the West bank entirely Hamas would decide that everyone lives in peace?

    catloaf ,

    Hamas wouldn’t, but Hamas would lose power. The reason they’re in power is because they aimed to fight Israel (and because they suspended elections once in power). If both Gaza and the West Bank came under Palestinian Authority control, Fatah would be in charge (at least until whatever election).

    Ghyste ,

    Let’s not forget that Israel backed Hamas.

    small44 ,

    An independent palestine should has it’s own army that is not hamas and fight them if they refuse to dissolve. They would also lose most of the palestinian support if they reduse . I also think the responsibles of the 7 of october should be held accountable in an independent palestine

    avidamoeba , (edited )
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Israel has been a pushover? This is the mindset that will keep this insurgency alive forever.

    I heard an ex MI6 head cite some numbers on the current state of Hamas. They said that about 60% of the current fighters were orphans from previous wars. There’s gonna a whole lot more orphans from this one.

    Israel is assured unsafe from another Oct 7 at least for a decade after this war, probably more. People won’t stop fighting when they have nothing left to lose. This expectation that these people would do something different than what you would when your families are killed is delusional.

    YourPrivatHater ,

    Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?

    And Israel being a pushover means Israel declaring wars that aren’t over for over to appease the antisemitic people around them.

    kent_eh ,

    Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?

    That’s not how I read it.

    My interpretation is that Israel shouldn’t be creating more orphans who will have a lifelong desire for vengeance.

    vxx ,

    I fully agree, but doesn’t this argument go the other way as well, when children grow up to Hamas attacking cities since decades?

    avidamoeba ,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Of course it does. But I think what matters is the magnitudes and what do every one of those children have to lose. If you want security, you have to move to fewer and fewer children having this experience and to more of them having something to lose. Hamas made this equation markedly worse on Oct 7. Israel’s leadership made way worse thereafter.

    vxx ,

    So how to break the cycle?

    ghostdoggtv ,

    Drag Bibi out of the Knesset by his ankles

    Ghyste ,

    They’ve decided the solution to that is to kill all the children as well.

    zaph ,

    How did you get “kill more” from that?

    SlopppyEngineer ,

    For even more fun, add in the children of Gaza wanting to escalate upward in the same way as Israel did and Iran becoming a nuclear power. If those two things ever combine things can get very ugly.

    Nutteman ,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    love me the tagging feature on sync for lemmy

    WanderingVentra ,

    Does Voyager have it? That’s the app use lol

    Nutteman ,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    No clue never used it

    FlyingSquid , (edited )
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Mod hat: I do not agree with this comment either, but that is not an excuse to break our civility rule. If you want to talk about why you think this person is incorrect, do it without insults.

    Edit: I should add that this applied to OP as well, who has been banned for multiple civility rule violations.

    givesomefucks OP ,

    User hat:

    You deleted a comment I made because you said it was incivil (not going to repeat it, but it’s in the modlog)

    Was it because I pointed out that they were denying a genocide?

    That’s the only thing that was remotely personal, and if that breaks the rules is it acceptable to instead just link sources explaining how Israel is committing a genocide?

    Genocidal denial is just a pretty big deal in my eyes, so I want to know how mods are ok with addressing it. I felt that I was following the sidebar by commenting on the argument and not the user, but apparently I misunderstood something.

    I wouldn’t have mentioned it, by their comment denying genocide is literally just a few comments down this chain…

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong. People also have a right to be ignorant about a subject and make ignorant statements. You, as a user, have a right to tell them why they are wrong or why their statement is not true.

    You do not have the right to accuse someone of supporting genocide unless they are making a statement that calls for violence. That is against the rules. The comment you responded to did not call for violence.

    I do not agree with their claim that genocide is not happening. People denied the Holocaust was happening while it was happening. That doesn’t mean they would have marched Jews into the ovens themselves if they had the chance.

    If you disagree with my moderation, you are free to report it to the admins.

    And that is the end of this discussion.

    goferking0 ,

    Wait now it’s uncivil to point out a genocide denier?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You are free to go to the modlog and see the comment that was deleted and see that it was clearly not a civil comment.

    You can also see the many other uncivil comments that got removed, including many of OP’s comments.

    Edit: OP was also banned while the person complaining was not.

    goferking0 ,

    I’ve read it a few times and honestly agree with OP that only that part reads as uncivil so I am confused

    https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/50a74eb3-9797-41bb-8f7f-053cad9eafd6.png

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    If you think “just casually denying genocide?” is a civil way to respond to someone, I guess you will continue to be disappointed.

    goferking0 ,

    Yes when that’s exactly what they are doing in their comments and comment history.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Well then I guess you will continue to be disappointed, as will the person who complained to me.

    I was tired of the slap fight and deleted a lot of comments, including most of OP’s comments and then banned OP.

    You’d think people would be happy OP was banned. Apparently not.

    Edit: I should also note that the particular user who is complaining gets flagged constantly, their comments rarely deleted, and I know I’ve never banned them, so I’m sorry you both think I’m treating them so horribly.

    goferking0 ,

    Again Happy you banned the asshole Ani account just confused why fucks had comment removed.

    Now I forsee lots of zionist shill accounts pushing for comments to be removed or accounts to be banned when people point out them denying the genocide

    OccamsTeapot ,

    You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong.

    So all the people (including YourPrivatHater) who accuse others of being antisemitic are also breaking this rule, aren’t they?

    They do not know the reasoning behind the statement that prompted the accusation and it is very uncivil to say that. How can that be different?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Their posts accusing people of being antisemitic were deleted and they were banned, so yes. They also broke that rule.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    I just reported two more. Lots more coming your way soon I’m sure, lol

    Edit: sorry you’re right, I think I can just still see them on sync

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You reported two which have already been deleted. Your instance has apparently not caught up yet. You should see the modlog.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    Yeah I understand now, apologies for the mistake

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No worries.

    goferking0 ,

    I love how the user you called that immediately proved they were one and wouldn’t listen.

    BobGnarley ,

    Reddit 2.0

    givesomefucks OP ,

    I don’t know why people keep acting like Israel’s current government wants peace, they repeatedly keep saying that they don’t.

    The viability of a U.S.-backed proposal to wind down the 8-month-long war in Gaza was cast into doubt on Monday after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would only be willing to agree to a “partial” cease-fire deal that would not end the war, comments that sparked an uproar from families of hostages held by Hamas.

    In an interview broadcast late Sunday on Israeli Channel 14, a conservative, pro-Netanyahu station, the Israeli leader said he was “prepared to make a partial deal – this is no secret — that will return to us some of the people,” referring to the roughly 120 hostages still held in the Gaza Strip. “But we are committed to continuing the war after a pause, in order to complete the goal of eliminating Hamas. I’m not willing to give up on that.”

    Netanyahu’s comments did not deviate dramatically from what he has said previously about his terms for a deal. But they come at a sensitive time as Israel and Hamas appear to be moving further apart over the latest cease-fire proposal, and they could represent another setback for mediators trying to end the war.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    It’s propaganda meant to string you along and give the sense that Biden is “doing something” or that there is some daylight between the parties on this thing.

    Corkyskog ,

    I think Bibi is hedging his bets. If war with Lebanon ends up looking lengthy he can end the Palestine campaign. He just needs any war to stay and power and avoid his corruption cases, I don’t think he really cares what war it is.

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