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roguetrick , (edited )

That’s really rough. The article says he died from a combination of respiratory infection/malnutrition. I bet the respiratory infection was aspiration pneumonia because they were trying to feed him with whatever they could get their hands on due to his cerebral palsy related dysphagia. Ended up just adding to his problems.

UsernameNotFound ,

Sounds terrible Hamas should release the hostages so the war can stop and kids won’t suffer anymore.

Dasus ,

Yes, everything will be fine in Gaza as long as no-one fights back against the ethnic cleansing. If Hamas just asks nicely, the Zionists will probably reconsider their stance and stop the genocide.

#/S

ohchr.org/…/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reporte…

“We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence,” the experts said. They also noted that photos of female detainees in degrading circumstances were also reportedly taken by the Israeli army and uploaded online.

“Taken together, these acts may constitute grave violations of international human rights and humanitarian law, and amount to serious crimes under international criminal law that could be prosecuted under the Rome Statute,” the experts said. “Those responsible for these apparent crimes must be held accountable and victims and their families are entitled to full redress and justice,” they added.

But that’s probably Hamas’s fault as well, right?

KISSmyOS ,

If Hamas just asks nicely, the Zionists will probably reconsider their stance and stop the genocide.

Unironically, yes. There’s been multiple attempts at negotiation in the past, where Israel was even willing to hand over land they had conquered before, for a two-state-solution. Hamas always declined, because they don’t want to negotiate with Israel. They want a world without Israel. And they’d rather have every single Palestinian die than accept their loss and sue for peace.

Dasus ,

Haha, yeah, suure m8.

“If we just comply with German demands, I’m sure the Jews will be safe”

You’re really pretending that you don’t even understand that for longer than you’ve been alive, there’s been systemic effort to drive out Palestinians from what I Israel considers it’s land? You’re seriously pretending you’re wholly unaware that “zionism” as a concept even exists?

press.un.org/en/2023/gapal1454.doc.htm

Before International Court of Justice Will Expose Israel’s Prolonged Illegal Policies, Permanent Observer Tells Palestinian Rights Committee

“The current Israeli Government is the most extreme rightist Government in the history of the Governments of Israel,” he observed. It includes fascist ministers considered by the Israeli legal system as promoting terrorism. One such minister who has advanced a racist manifesto also announced that his and his family’s right to remain alive is greater than the right of the Palestinian people to circulate in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

Michael Lynk, former Special Rapporteur, then briefed the Committee on the study it commissioned regarding the legality of the Israeli occupation, underscoring that “no one can say the subject has been treated lightly or thinly”. While many features of the 56-year-old Israeli occupation are illegal in themselves, the study’s central aim is to answer the question of whether the occupation itself is illegal and — if so — to outline the consequences for Israel, the international community and the United Nations.

He noted that the study highlights three peremptory norms that can determine if an occupation has become illegal, including whether the occupying Power has moved to annex any part of the occupied territory; whether that Power has breached the right to self-determination of the people under occupation; and whether that Power has instituted policies of discrimination or apartheid in the occupied territory. A breach of any of these norms would indicate that an occupation has become illegal; a breach of all three would be conclusive evidence of such illegality. The study concludes that Israel — as the occupying Power — “is in gross violation of all three of these norms and is, therefore, a bad-faith occupier”.

He also noted that the study finds many parallels between the situation in the State of Palestine today and South Africa’s apartheid rule over Namibia 50 years ago. Due to the illegality of its occupation, Israel is obliged to withdraw from the Occupied Palestinian Territory immediately, completely and unconditionally. Further, Israel is responsible for reparations. The international community must move away from the “land-for-peace” paradigm and towards Israel’s complete withdrawal to the 1967 lines.

I skipped paragraphs, read the whole article from the link

That is from last August. It’s horrifying to see them talking about the dead of 2023 — by that point in time — “including 44 children”. As the number is now over 12 300, JUST for the dead children.

It’s not Palestinian who keep yelling about “human animals”. It’s Israel who keeps pushing rhetoric like that:

news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145937

world court calls for prevention of genocidal acts in Gaza

Turning to the article 3 of the Genocide Convention, which prohibits “conspiracy to commit genocide” and public incitement to commit genocide, the judge said that the ICJ had taken note of a number of statements made by senior Israeli officials.

These included comments by Yoav Galant, Defense Minister of Israel, who reportedly told troops on the border with the enclave that they were fighting “human animals” who were the “ISIS of Gaza”.

TokenBoomer ,

And….block!

Crikeste ,

Hello, average bloodthirsty psychotic American. Tell me more about how little you understand the world outside your borders.

answersplease77 ,

The deal Isael offered was 6-weeks ceasefire for all hostages, then once we take all hostages and reload our ammo, we will go back to boming you again

TokenBoomer ,

I was just about to comment like this, but with an “/s,” because I’m a human being.

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

https://i.redd.it/u17h6fzdvmya1.jpg

_sideffect ,

I hope everyone realizes that most of Israel is against the government and what they are doing.

I’m surprised after the holocaust that the government has the fucking nerve to inflict the same type of treatment on others.

victorz ,

I’m surprised after the holocaust that the government has the fucking nerve to inflict the same type of treatment on others.

On this, I’m with you. It’s so ironic it’s absolutely wild and disappointing and depressing.

I hope everyone realizes that most of Israel is against the government and what they are doing.

Regarding this, it’s very difficult to “realize” when most of the media portrays the Israelis as super racist scumbags. I can’t believe some of the things they are shouting at each other (both sides actually but especially the Israelis), and especially considering the other thing you mentioned regarding their history during WWII, and prior. The media (social and otherwise) is showing us video evidence of widespread racism against the Palestinians, all the way from the country leaders (on both sides, granted). It’s hard to deny having seen those images. But it’s also hard to judge how selective the reporting is.

I, for one, have not “realized”, because I can never have the data necessary.

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Why are people still supporting this stuff? This is just tragic.

cyberpunk007 ,

Fucking disgusting. I don’t get how so many can just be ok with this. Forget your holy war or whatever the fuck it is, these are people and this is barbaric.

cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

We need to referee to sites that hide content behind cookie walls as paywalls

Zuberi ,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Paywall bypass extension

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Nice. “Bypass Paywall Clean (D)” for Firefox worked.

alyth ,

archive.ph/9P0L8

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Reminder that Biden can stop this with one phone call.

theotherverion ,

Remember that Hamas can stop it, as well.

Viking_Hippie ,

If you seriously believe that, I have a lovely villa in downtown Rafah to sell to you. In a really quiet neighborhood.

theotherverion ,

I think there are other realities which can be considered a better investment

kibiz0r ,

Seems like you’re already invested in alternate realities.

filister ,

Do you seriously believe that Israel will change how they treat Palestinians once they get all their hostages back? And that magically will start allowing more humanitarian aid and start killing so many innocent people?

Or shall I better ask you if you still believe in unicorns and fairy tales

theotherverion ,

Actually yes. Once hamas raises white flag and returns hostages, Israel’s high-level offense will stop, so their treatment will be better.

Dasus , (edited )

“If we just don’t make a fuzz fuss and walk to the trains and the gas chambers peacefully, I’m sure they’ll treat us better”

You can’t be that delusional

edit fuzz -> fuss

theotherverion ,

That’s a very different story because unlike Hamas, Jews weren’t organizing terrorist attacks against Germans and they didn’t declare war against them so many times.

Dasus ,

Are you serious?

…wikipedia.org/…/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occu…

theotherverion ,

That was a direct and not so effective response to WW2 started by germans. Just like Israel responds to Hamas now.

Dasus ,

You know what was happening concurrently with WWII?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism

…wikipedia.org/…/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_P…

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks

So you’re claiming “Hamas started it”?

Hamas was founded in the late 80’s.

The Irgun were bombing Arabians in the 30’s, 50 years earlier.

Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by The New York Times, the Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry, prominent world figures such as Winston Churchill and Jewish figures such as Hannah Arendt, Albert Einstein, and many others. Irgun launched a series of attacks which lasted until the founding of Israel. All told, Irgun attacks against Arab targets resulted in at least 250 Arab deaths during this period

theotherverion ,

Arabs were attacking Jews even in 1920s. Are we going to track who started the first attack? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

UN in the 1940s proposed a solution. Israel accepted and Arabs responded with a War.

Dasus ,

The Battle of Tel Hai, which lead to those protests, is a part of the Franco-Syrian war, and not even considered a part of the intercommunal conflict by many.

Ie not related to the conflict we’re talking about.

In the wake of the protests, sheikhs of 82 villages around the city and Jaffa, claiming to represent 70% of the population, issued a document protesting the demonstrations against the Jews.

The leaders of the local Arab community protested the Arab Nationalists, despite the growing Zionism.

You just can’t admit to Israel bearing any part of the blame. I show you history of zionists bombing hundreds of people dead and you think linking a small protest that was barely violent somehow makes the currently ongoing genocide alright?

That kind of willfull ignorance is what enabled the holocaust.

And now you’re proudly displaying it.

It turns my stomach, literally.

You don’t understand that I am not saying “Israel started it”. I’m mocking you for not realising how childish going “but mooooom, he started it” is.

theotherverion ,

You were the one who stared going into history and it was you who started finding old escalations trying to unsuccessfully prove that it were the Jews who firstly attacked. As you have pointed out, this approach makes zero sense.

In addition, I have never said Israel has no responsibility in this conflict as a whole. They made many mistakes, just like Palestinians.

What I disagree with, though, and pointed it out many times, is, how extremely one sided many of the arguments are.

Dasus ,

trying to unsuccessfully prove that it were the Jews

You didn’t read the last line of my previous comment? Here:

You don’t understand that I am not saying “Israel started it”. I’m mocking you for not realising how childish going “but mooooom, he started it” is.

That being said, while the origins of the conflict are clearly multifaceted, the Zionists seem to have a bit more of a… presence in the history books than Palestinian nationalists. The rhetoric of “divine right” versus “but we fucking live here already”.

It’s extremely naive to think that if Hamas were to say “okay, you win, here are the hostages” that this clearly purposeful ethnic cleansing would just stop and all the hostilities would seize and that Hamas somehow had a way to enforce a seize-fire in the first place. You were saying “unironically, yeah, it would”. No, it clearly wouldn’t as we’ve just demonstrated just how far back the conflict goes.

Which, to remind you, is at least 50 years before Hamas was even founded.

“How extremely one-sided many of the arguments are”

You mean like… people saying that no matter what Hamas has done, it doesn’t excuse Israel committing genocide, perpetuating war crimes, breaking basic human rights? Because, that’s not “one-sided”, because no matter what Hamas has done, **genocide is inexcusable. **

So do you think Israel is guilty of breaking international laws and conventions?

theotherverion , (edited )

Let my start with your question: Yes, it is crystal clear Israel broke international laws. I do not think we have to debate about it.

Despite committing war crimes, it is still their right to defend against terrorists.

Then you also said Israel commits genocide, however, the case still is at ICJ and so far they have not issued a statement that Israel commits genocide, hence it is incorrect to assume they do.

Furthermore, I see Palestinian radicals to be more present in history books than Zionists (at least in middle EU) for organizing a terrorist every once in a while and walking away when possible deals are on the table, EDIT: though this is not completely fair because I see their breaches as equally bad.

Dasus ,

have not issued a statement that Israel commits genocide, hence it is incorrect to assume they do.

Yeah, I knew it, you’re just a holocaust-denier. Ooh wait, no, wrong genocide. Or… was it?

en.wikipedia.org/…/The_Holocaust_and_the_Nakba

still is at ICJ and so far they have not issued a statement

They have issued a ruling, actually.

ohchr.org/…/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protectio…

aljazeera.com/…/what-has-the-icj-ordered-israel-t…

is in the ICJ’s ruling?

The ICJ confirmed that it does have jurisdiction to hear the case submitted by South Africa and issued six emergency orders to Israel, as follows:

Israel must take all possible measures to prevent acts as outlined in Article 2 of the 1948 Genocide Convention. This entails not killing members of a particular group (in this case, Palestinians), not causing physical or psychological harm to members of that group, not inflicting living conditions which are calculated to bring about the end of the existence of a people, and not carrying out actions designed to prevent births within that group of people. Measure approved by a vote of 15-2.

Israel must ensure its military does not carry out any of the above actions.

“It’s not a genocide, it’s just that our defense minister is yelling about ‘the extermination of human animals’, we’re bombing indiscriminately, having dropped more bombs in a week than the US dropped on Afghanistan in a year, killed over 12,300 CHILDREN, keep prisoners naked in cages outside, but it’s definitely just defense that we are entitled to.”

ohchr.org/…/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reporte…

businessinsider.com/israel-palestine-confilct-bom…

(sources for the rhetoric and stats on bombs and dead children and abuse of prisoners)

That’s what most Israeli’s sound like. And then you think that people are “one-sided” when they don’t agree with your “NO NO NO NOT A GENOCIDE” delusions?

If there’s no genocide, why did the ICJ order Israel to “do everything in it’s power” to prevent one? Yes, there are still steps before the final verdict can be issued, but pretending you don’t know it is a genocide is downright disgusting.

Despite committing war crimes, it is still their right to defend against terrorists.

Yeah, but not if it involves committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing.

Do you understand that no-one purposefully perpetuating a genocide would admit to doing so, obviously?

theotherverion ,

Is it somewhere written in the ruling that Israel can be breached the genocide convention? No. Even if you compare it to other accepted genocides, this one does not fit. If we just start randomly throwing terms like “genocide” at any conflict that fits your interest, they effectively lose their meaning.

Same situation like when extreme Zionists call you “antisemitic” for disagreeing with them.

Dasus ,

Even if you compare it to other accepted genocides, this one does not fit.

You haven’t though, and that is the point.

So let’s do it together, shall we?

Let’s compare.

What is the definition of a genocide?

A mental element: the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”; and A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively: Killing members of the group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique. In addition, case law has associated intent with the existence of a State or organizational plan or policy, even if the definition of genocide in international law does not include that element.

Importantly, the victims of genocide are deliberately targeted - not randomly – because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups protected under the Convention (which excludes political groups, for example). This means that the target of destruction must be the group, as such, and not its members as individuals. Genocide can also be committed against only a part of the group, as long as that part is identifiable (including within a geographically limited area) and “substantial.”

“Killing”, “Serious bodily harm” “mental harm”

The death toll in has surpassed 30,000 — a large majority women and children. Over 70,000 Palestinians have been injured. >12,300 children dead. 17,000 without parents.

press.un.org/en/2024/sc15600.doc.htm

Deploring that surgeons have had no choice but to carry out amputations on children without anaesthesia, he said that medical teams have added a new acronym to their vocabulary: “WCNSF” — wounded child, no surviving family. The psychological injuries they suffered have led children as young as five to say they “would prefer to die”, he recalled, adding that — although his organization’s staff are scared and beyond exhausted — they choose to continue working despite increasing risks.

check, check and check

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

Well Israel is deliberately blocking aid and even attacking aid convoys: palestine.un.org/…/259747-food-convoy-waiting-mov…

So, yeah, check.

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

aljazeera.com/…/he-was-nameless-orphaned-children…

Orphaned perhaps not close enough? Why force separation though, when the’re no-one to separate them from? But don’t worry, we got the actual separation also covered:

doi.org/10.1136/bmjpo-2022-001655

Forced separation of parents from their children at the Gaza–Israel border

Intent? Hmm? Let’s see what the going rhetoric is around Israel these days.

timesofisrael.com/…/defense-minister-announces-co…

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.

And I think you’ll accept that’s not a source biased in favour of Palestine, eh?

How about the people?

snopes.com/…/israeli-demonstrator-kill-them-all-s…

Rating: True

That’s probably not good enough though, as it’s not from this year, right, so it doesn’t count that some Israeli were calling for “kill them all” in 2016?

What about

…almayadeen.net/…/israeli-rabbi-calls-for-genocid…

So while the ICJ has yet to give a verdict to the actual genocide bit, they have given a verdict that the genocidal rhetoric and actions are definitely happening and Israel must do everything to stop it. If it wasn’t happening, that’s not a verdict they would give.

To pretend that it’s not happening because there’s yet to be an official verdict from the ICJ doesn’t mean that we can’t tell if there’s a genocide going on. Come on.

Honestly, what would it take for you to admit that it’s a genocide? And not even that. You’re saying I’m “randomly throwing around” the word, as if there’s zero indication of a genocide? The sheer willfull ignorance, it’s staggering.

dotMonkey ,

Lol you seriously said that with a straight face huh? Need to brush up on your history bud.

theotherverion ,

Was WW2 a result of numerous terrorist attacks of Jews who attacked German civilians? Did Germany start oppression only after Jewish inhabitants killed more than a thousand of Germans repeatedly?

MetaCubed ,

Holy shit. It doesn’t matter if the Jews did committing acts of terrorism during ww2, and it doesn’t matter that Hamas has committed acts of terrorism.

And I can tell you why it doesn’t matter in one (slightly run-on) sentence.

Because no act of terrorism justifies the actions that Israel has taken against Palestinian civilians just as nothing that was done or could have been done by the Jews leading up to WW2 would have justified the holocaust

There is no justification for genocide. Israel can attempt to eliminate Hamas for the actions committed on Oct 7th, but that doesn’t justify their complete disregard for civilian safety and well-being. (Nearly 30k palestinian civilians dead already)

Also, I just want to make it clear that almost every piece of rhetoric that has been used to excuse Israel’s actions in this genocide, were also used to justify the actions taken against the Jews during WW2. And I’m sorry, but if you’re falling for it now, you probably would have fallen for it then too.

theotherverion ,

I do not necessarily agree that this can be considered a genocide as even ICJ did not give the exact statement and comparing it to holocaust is truly insane.

However, I fully agree that they should follow the international law and they fail to do so. There is no excuse to not following international law just like there is no excuse to starting a brutal terrorist attack like Hamas did.

Also, I honestly doubt I would fall for nazi propaganda considering the fact a singnificant portion of my ancestors were executed by it

Doof ,

It’s “Fuse” btw

Dasus ,

Take an upvote, you made me laugh

Doof ,

Fuss* it’s the best look to not proofread lol but I was just trying to let you know.

Dasus ,

Yeah that’s true, “fuzz” is what I had on my lip when I was 14.

But “making fuses” also works in the context, lol.

TokenBoomer ,

Genocide apologia… blocked!

theotherverion ,

ICJ didn’t even call Israel’s actions a genocide…

PrincessLeiasCat ,

I guess once this is all said and done we’ll say never again, but we did that after WWII and here we are trying to tell the victims of genocide in WWII to remember that it’s a bad fucking thing and don’t do it.

Just what the fuck.

amorpheus ,

North Korea has been running dozens of literal concentration camps, but dealing with that has been too inconvenient. And it’s only becoming more so as time passes.

PrincessLeiasCat ,

Yeah, and China, and Myanmar, and it wasn’t my intention to trivialize those - they are anything but. I was more pointing out that the last time this particular group was involved and the reason they’re even on that land at all. The irony of the whole messed up situation.

Aussiemandeus ,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

Careful lemmy doesnt appreciate “what about ism” it detracts from their flavour of atrocity support.

Support the popular atrocity only dont mention any other.

Dasus ,

Careful lemmy doesnt appreciate “what about ism”

It’s “whataboutism”, and it’s a poor rhetorical device in any scenario.

Imagine being caught murdering someone and trying to absolve yourself of responsibility by going “hey but what about all the other mass murderers, huh?”

Tinidril ,

Is my country funding North Korean death camps? Suffering is suffering and all of it matters, but when my tax dollars are paying for it, it just hits a bit differently.

Israel through AIPAC is also dumping $100m on this election cycle aimed directly at progressive candidates. Fuck Israel hard. We don’t want foreign interference in US elections from Russia, and we don’t want it from Israel either. We should have cut those fuckers off ages ago.

cyberpunk007 ,

The funny part about that is… Isn’t Germany supporting this genocide too?

harderian729 ,

Israel is the Nazi Germany of the Middle East.

Land_Strider ,

Israel is worse than that, unfortunately. They are a culmination of Nazi Germany, the colonial British Empire, and the warmongering USA of the last few decades.

timidgoat ,

I’ve said this before and I will say it again. This period of time will go down in history as a particularly dark time in human history. The fact that not only is this happening, but efforts to stop it from people with real power to change it is incredibly minimal. The world powers letting this happen is perhaps worse that the Zionists doing it.

Jamil ,

I hope this will wake people up that our governments don’t work for us and will lead to reform to hold leaders accountable for acting against the will of the people for their personal benefit.

Zuberi ,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Lol :/

dumpsterlid ,

I hope this also kills the centrist obsession with “both sides”-ing every political controversy where people on the left are screaming at the top of their lungs “PLEASE SAVE THEM” and people on the right are screaming “KILL THEM ALL” and then sternly scolding the “please save them” crowd that this isn’t the right time and place for that kind of rhetoric and anyways it unnecessarily divides us and gives the “kill them all” people even more power.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

People say this and then go me to vote for Biden, a geriatric genocide funder, ie a centrist who pretends to be liberal to get votes and support.

sirboozebum OP ,

But did the boy condemn Hamas before he died?

BestBouclettes ,

Fuck these genocidal freaks. There is literally no excuse to let this happen…

justdoitlater ,

Fuck me, i just saw this while taking a 5€ cappucinno and brunching in a preppy coffee shop, and now i think how fucked up this world is.

GiuseppeAndTheYeti ,

It’s easy to blame yourself for this stuff, but the people that are actually responsible take advantage of that empathy. All we can do is verbally condemn the people responsible and in some cases show action by attending or organizing public protests.

Its equatable to oil companies blaming consumers for plastic waste, oil spills, and fossil fuel emissions.

ReiRose ,

Thank you, I needed this reminder.

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