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Estonia considers closing its border with Russia

Estonia announced that the country may be forced to close its border crossing points with Russia due to increased migration pressures, Estonian Police and Border Guard announced on Feb. 13.

“In recent weeks, Russia has deliberately directed to the Estonian border groups of foreigners lacking the legal right to enter the European Union,” the statement reads. “If these activities continue, we will be forced to close border crossing points to protect national security and public order, as has already been done in Finland due to migration pressure.”

The Estonian government has noted an influx of migrants and asylum seekers from Russia over recent months.

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MBFC

FlorianSimon , (edited )

Oh wow, the situation in Russia is great! Russia is winning the war and nobody feels the sanctions!

Or at least that’s what you’d think if you’d listen to the top tankies on Lemmy. Gee, I wonder why there are no refugees from, say, Canada, in Russia, but lots of Russians are fleeing towards the West?

I feel no joy by saying this. This is a tragedy that needs to stop as early as possible. I deplore the existence of the need for Russians to seek asylum in other countries, despite my open condemnations of the actions of the Russian government.

But this is a call to the actual leftists among tankie ranks: stop defending Russia’s imperialist war. This is a situation of their own design. They can stop anytime. We can still denounce American imperialism and Israel’s ethnic war, it’s not an either/or situation.

By defending a dictator, tankies are siding with the evil they like to proclaim they hate (imperialism), in contradiction of the values they claim to have.

Moonrise2473 ,

While I agree with what you say, the article is not talking about Russian citizens, but it’s the Russian government being an asshole like Belarus did: they let migrants fly into Russia from Morocco, Kenya or Yemen, then they’re pushing them to the Estonian border just to give them pressure. Using innocent people as a destabilizing weapon

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

why considering? Close them down, nothing of value in Russia at the moment.

Viking_Hippie ,

There are innocent civilians trying to flee Putin’s regime. Civilians who want no part of his war. They should be allowed to seek asylum like any refugee.

ALERT ,
@ALERT@sh.itjust.works avatar

are they being badly treated? forcefully enlisted? killed? their life is the same as before the full-scale invasion, their life is the same as before 2014. so why the heck do they need protection?

Viking_Hippie ,

are they being badly treated? forcefully enlisted? killed?

In thousands of cases, yes.

their life is the same as before the full-scale invasion

Bullshit. The overbroad sanctions and boycotts as well as acts of the tyrannical Putin government have changed the lives of almost all Russians and foreign residents dramatically for the worse.

their life is the same as before 2014.

Again, talking out of your ass.

so why the heck do they need protection?

For the same reason as all other refugees: because they’re fleeing violence, oppression and societal collapse.

ALERT ,
@ALERT@sh.itjust.works avatar

We had this with Yanukovich. Got rid of him. Maybe instead of fleeing, they should take over their country? The question is rhetorical.

Viking_Hippie ,

Comparing Yanukovic to Putin is like comparing apples and orchards. Putin is so much more powerful and entrenched that the very notion is ridiculous.

Here’s a rhetorical question for you: are you arguing in bad faith or are you just an absolute moron?

ALERT ,
@ALERT@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m just a Ukrainian living in Kyiv. If I were living in Eastern Ukraine, I would have wished them all dead.

Viking_Hippie ,

I’m sorry for what you and your country are going through, but it doesn’t mean you know anything about how powerful and entrenched the Russian government is. Clearly.

If I were living in Eastern Ukraine, I would have wished them all dead.

The ones LEAVING Russia to AVOID the war? They’ve never done anything against you.

Windex007 ,

I thank God every day that this Ukrainian has you to educate him on the nuances of Ukrainian/Russian politics.

Viking_Hippie ,

Being Ukrainian doesn’t make it any less wrong to assume that it’s easy to overthrow Putin and demand that refugees should stay in countries that are likely to kill them and/or force them to kill others.

Windex007 ,

Maybe, but your faith that Putin’s power is absolute, that he is immune to being overthrown is just as flawed.

Why is his table so long? Why has he done several brutal purges of his personal guard? Why has he installed members of his personal guard to high ranking military posts?

These are the actions of a man who looks into a crystal ball and says “wow, getting crushed by a popular uprising is on the menu for me”

Recal how few rednecks it takes to storm a capital building. Recall the relative density of rednecks in Russia.

I’m glad that you have complete faith that an uprising couldn’t topple Putin’s regime. You should tell Putin, I think he would find incredible comfort in your expert analysis.

And you need to understand the how flat your words must fall on the ears of those who literally have participated in such an uprising as you brush off as impossible.

I agree with you that harming refugees is bad. That discussion sits in the domain of humanitarian ethics, something that I think we all have the prerequisite knowledge for, assuming we have the capacity for human empathy.

On the topic of uprising against a Russian leader, I think you need to accept that your armchair assessment has been informed by a significant amount of propeganda from either side, and that you might not be as much an authority as you might imagine yourself

FluffyPotato ,

Estonia is a tiny country of a little over a million people and we already took on the most Ukrainian refugees per population and we currently have issues housing them. If Russians need refuge in another country they need to look elsewhere.

Viking_Hippie ,

Then HELP them get to another country in stead of forcing them to stay in Russia where they might be forcibly enlisted or killed for opposing the war or just generally living in misery caused by the war as well as reactions to it.

FluffyPotato ,

If they are trying to cross the border here they would need to cross about 4 countries before getting anywhere where they can be accepted, Estonia does not have the resources to facilitate that.

There are also security concerns. In the early 2000nds Russia attempted to create a breakaway region in Estonia with an influx of Russian citizens. Viru county already has a high Russian population and we don’t need a repeat of that.

Viking_Hippie ,

they would need to cross about 4 countries before getting anywhere where they can be accepted, Estonia does not have the resources to facilitate that.

Ask the EU for help funding and coordinating it? I’m sure they have/are working on such projects already. If they aren’t, they should be.

FluffyPotato ,

Currently there is no such funding available and a lot of hotels are already being used for Ukrainian refugees as actual refugee facilities are full so if they come here in the winter they will just die on the streets.

Even if all that wasn’t the case there is a decent chance that this is organised by the russian government to try to create a breakaway region as they tried in the past and succeeded in other countries.

circuscritic ,

Why don’t you help? Go fly to a Baltic state and explain to everyone you meet why it’s imperative they let any Russians claiming to be fleeing settle into their countries.

I honestly can’t see any reason why they would object to that.

So go on, HELP THEM.

drmoose ,

Estonia can definitely afford spare a little bit of goodwill imo.

FluffyPotato ,

And it has, Estonia accepted the most Ukrainian refugees per population. Currently all the refugee facilities are still full and the government is paying hotels to keep refugees. If Russian refugees come here in the winter they would likely die as there is nowhere to house them.

drmoose ,

It’s not the same issue lop

SomethingBurger ,

Why can’t Estonia send them elsewhere in the EU?

qevlarr ,
@qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

EU rules

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

Lysergid ,

They can have no part in war by overthrowing government that not considering their peoples’ will. Can’t believe how gutless Russians when it comes to regime

Viking_Hippie ,

Are you fucking drunk? You really think nobody’s trying to overthrow the Putin regime or otherwise fight back?

You’re acting like toppling a deeply entrenched tyrannical regime is something a couple of dudes could easily do in an afternoon, not something virtually impossible that thousands of Russians have died trying to accomplish 🤦

ickplant ,
@ickplant@lemmy.world avatar

Lmao, what an edgy take. Have you ever been to a gulag? Cause that’s where you end up when you try to fight Putin.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

There are innocent civilians trying to flee Putin’s regime. Civilians who want no part of his war. They should be allowed to seek asylum like any refugee.

Yes they are, but Russia also uses migration as a pervert way of its hybrid warfare to pressure european countries and to create confusion and disarray .

Viking_Hippie ,

True, but that’s not a reason to categorically turn away all refugees any more than some cars being stolen is a reason to stop all cars.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

True, but that’s not a reason to categorically turn away all refugees

I would argue on that. Maybe establish another way to get putin refugees into europe instead of getting your borders flooded. You also have to manage the income to make sure they get proper care in your country.

Viking_Hippie ,

You also have to manage the income to make sure they get proper care in your country.

Actually, it’s been shown that, contrary to xenophobic stereotypes (not calling you xenophobic, just pointing out that the stereotypes are), immigrants are overwhelmingly a net economic (and arguably cultural, but that’s admittedly quite subjective) positive to their destination country, refugees even moreso than others.

avater , (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

immigrants are overwhelmingly a net economic (and arguably cultural, but that’s admittedly quite subjective) positive to their destination country, refugees even moreso than others.

of course they are. The problem I see is that every country has to take care that regugees are properly welcomed and taken care of. They have to get immediatly proper introduction into the country, the language, the common systems of the country, are able to work and contribute (with regards of their strengths and education) and so on, so that they get really fast properly inlcuded and not live for years in some shady, seperated “container homes”.

And to assure this you have to regulate the income, because every country has limited ressources. We just need a proper european solution that every country is forced (looking at you hungary…) to take refugees and care for them properly based on some variables like the wealth of the country and so on.

Viking_Hippie ,

Yeah, you’re right that there’s a potentially steep initial cost. That’s outweighed by future benefits, though, and I’m pretty sure that both the EU and several NGOs have funds and projects specifically dedicated to partly pay for and ease that transition.

It’s worth a try, at least, when the alternative is turning away refugees.

NOOBMASTER ,

Pretty sure that the ukrainians are the real refugees here, and not ruzzians.

yournamehere ,

we all should. i know greed is sexy to some, but f russia and its degenerated population.

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