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redcalcium ,

This is low. Imagine if you’re unemployed, doing rounds of job interviews and got hit with this mess.

alb_004 OP ,

It would be terrible.

prof ,
@prof@infosec.pub avatar

It’s sad that this works. You’d think especially software professionals would be the most vigilant about running unknown code.

sukhmel ,

Professionals in software development do not mean professionals in cyber security.

Same way you don’t expect a geologist to be a mason

prof , (edited )
@prof@infosec.pub avatar

That’s a bad take. Unless you get your knowledge purely from shady tutorials or have a fast track bootcamp education, it’s unlikely you never touch on security basics.

I’m a software design undergrad and had to take IT Sec classes. Other profs also touched on how to safely handle dependencies and such.

While IT Security is its own specialisation, blindly trusting source code others provide you with is something a good programmer shouldn’t do.

If you need a metaphor: Just because a woodworker specialises in tables, doesn’t mean they can’t build a chair.

Edit: Seems like my take is the bad one 😂

sukhmel ,

I graduated in CS in this century and we never touched on security. If not for my own curiosity and obligatory annual compliance education on the job (and only on the last one) I would have known near nothing

expr ,

In my experience, your average software developer has absolutely terrible security hygiene. It’s why you see countless instances of private keys copy/pasted into public GitHub repos or the seemingly daily occurrences of massive data breaches.

My undergrad in CS (which I should point out, is still by far the most common major for software engineers) did not require a security course, and I’m fairly confident that this is pretty typical. To be honest, I wouldn’t have trusted any of my CS professors to know the first thing about security. It’s a completely different field and something that generally requires a lot of practical experience. The closest we ever got was an explanation of asymmetric vs. symmetric encryption. There was certainly no discussion of even basic things like how to properly manage secrets or authn best practices.

Everything I know now as a senior software engineer about software security has come from experience on the job. I’ve been very fortunate to work at some places that take it very seriously (including a government contractor writing cybersecurity software for the Department of Defense) and learned a lot there. But a lot of shops don’t have a culture that promotes good security hygiene, and it shows in the litany of insecure software out in the wild today.

prof ,
@prof@infosec.pub avatar

Thanks for the response. Seems like I can’t assume other CS degrees are comparable.

We definitely have a strong focus on security in my degree, but I still believe that awareness of what you’re running on your machine and potential dangers of those programs fall into the category of common sense. Mishandling secrets, having bad authentication or not knowing how to setup SSL is definitely experience stuff though.

Dra ,

You are young and blissfully naive. Sec being included with development is a recent thing

prof ,
@prof@infosec.pub avatar

Neither young or naive. Just assuming others share my experience.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I run interviews, and a lot of applicants can’t write code. So they’re probably going after low-hanging fruit like that.

prof ,
@prof@infosec.pub avatar

Makes sense, I feel bad for the guys that were happy for a chance and got screwed over. (By the hackers, not you, haha)

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Some tips for people, real companies won’t:

  • ask you to buy anything and get reimbursed later to start a job
  • require personal info like SSN in the interview process (will be handled by a separate HR process)
  • offer you a job during the first interview

Be careful out there!

poo ,
@poo@lemmy.world avatar

Regarding that last one, my last job actually happened because I was made an offer during the first interview before even doing any sort of technical or programming test…

… of course most of the developers there were awful, so I wish they had.

It’s almost as if technical interviews are extremely important in vetting applicants…

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Regarding that last one, my last job actually happened because I was made an offer during the first interview

Probably better stated as a red flag not necessarily “they’re not real.” Usually the folks at the company will want at least a little bit of time to think over the interview and discuss.

It’s almost as if technical interviews are extremely important in vetting applicants

It depends, good references and prior work can top “technical interviews” in my book. If someone’s done something interesting a conversation about that interesting thing is often far more useful.

Technical interviews are more important when you’re looking at people fresh out of college or a code bootcamp.

veloxization ,
@veloxization@yiffit.net avatar

I’ve gotten offered a job on the first interview and I worked there for a while. Then again, that was not in my field of IT and was a part-time job with a well-known company, alongside studies. So while it can be a red flag, it’s not always. Depends on the situation. Just stay vigilant.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup. Sometimes it’ll work out, just look for the big red flags.

A good job won’t expect you to do anything other than show up to interviews and orientation.

echodot ,

I’ve been offered a job during the interview. But I did think it was super sketchy and didn’t take it.

But honestly it was more of a red flag of them just being desperate than anything dodgy going on. They really weren’t prepared to pay that much money, so they wanted to offer people jobs so they wouldn’t think about it.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, that’s sketchy.

Then again, we had the opposite situation with a candidate. Basically, we did our hiring rounds out of order, changed the position they were applying for, and our VP contacted them directly like 3 times after the interviews because we kept seeing weird stuff (had an SO out of state and was considering moving, then wanted to get a masters locally, etc). It worked out and we hired them, and it’s working out so far.

I guess my point is: hiring can be weird. We’ve had candidates skip the second round, repeat rounds, and we even flew one out without even making an offer. Run if the company seems sketchy, but if they’re just kinda weird, consider giving them a shot, some of our best hires had a wired hiring process.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s like they want me to give up finding a job when half the job interviews are fucking scams.

“nObOdY wAnTs tO wOrK aNyMoRe”

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, I was pretty skeptical with my current job:

  1. Recruiter contacted me, I didn’t contact them
  2. Interview done by Indians, full remote
  3. I had never heard of the company

But everything checked out, and I love the job. It’s not a tech company, but it has the best parts of one (proper AGILE processes, separated QA, dev, and devOPs roles, modem tech stack, etc).

So be careful of scams, but not so careful you miss out on great opportunities.

PlantJam ,

Being a developer at a non tech company is great. My role tends to blur between salesforce amin and developer, but that’s partly because of the small size of the company (less than 100 employees total, less than 10 in IT).

sugar_in_your_tea ,

We’re a bigger company (publicly traded outside the US, thousands of employees), but we’re a manufacturer, so most of the headcount is blue collar. Our department is medium sized (about 30 full time, plus about 20 from outside firms), so it feels like a smallish company with large company benefits.

It’s a nice niche. It doesn’t pay as well as the big tech companies, but I almost never work more than 8 hours and frequently less. It’s pretty chill and has great work/life balance. I work in office 2x/week and remote the other two days.

It’s a pretty decent gig, but definitely seemed sketchy when I joined (I was like the fifth FT employee, so most of the headcount was in another hemisphere). No regrets, but I was watching my paychecks pretty closely for a month or so to make sure they didn’t pull anything weird (to be fair, I was hired full remote during COVID).

bitwolf ,

Are they still looking for talent?

My current job is taking advantage of the market and drastically changing things for the worse and I’m feeling stuck, far away from my family and friends.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, we’re almost always hiring. We currently have positions for a mid level to senior BE (Python), senior devOPs (AWS and preferably coding exp), and mid level QA (Java testing). We’re hoping to build another complete team once we fill those other positions (so 2-3 BE, 2-3 FE).

However, I’d prefer not to disclose who I work for exactly, nor can I give a recommendation online, but I work for a company in Utah near SLC, and we expect hires to be local.

But I highly doubt my company is particularly unique. Tech is tough right now, so look around at non-tech companies that are hiring for tech roles, you might just find a gem. :)

expr , (edited )

1 Is pretty standard in the industry for people with experience. I haven’t actually applied to any jobs myself in a while. Job hunting for me is sifting through the recruiter messages that hit my inbox.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, a lot are nonsense though. There are so many that are like “we want you to come work with us,” and then I can and it’s no different than me sending in a resume normally, they just want to expand their hiring pool.

But whatever, I hate looking for jobs, so it’s nice that I didn’t have to try to hard this time.

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

Just another reason to not be doing any work before your paid. They can ask questions or do something static.

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