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Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

I’m in the market for a phone and love this idea, but 8x digital zoom without optical zoom options in 2024 is a non-starter for me.

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Maybe the best part of the FP5 that is talked about little is that the main SoC is not a consumer grade Qualcomm chip, but an industrial grade one that will get driver and firmware upgrades for a much longer time than the consumer ones.

In addition it is fairly similar to other slightly older Qualcomm chips that already have main-line Linux kernel support, so the prospects of running Mobian or PostmarketOS on it are quite good.

Buffalox ,

Nokia has decent phones dirt cheap that you can repair yourself, and you can buy spare parts cheap too, and it runs completely vanilla Android, with good multi year upgrade policy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh-7sMEDxyw

My wife has her eye on a Nokia G42, and it has both Micro SD slot and minijack. So you can use a 1TB MicroSD and laugh all the way to the bank at those who bought an S24 Ultra with 128GB 😂 🤪 😆 😜 😋

Secret300 ,

At this point I don’t even know what vanilla android looks like lol. I kinda want to get a Nokia

jamyang ,

Yeah. Buy Nokia.

Let’s also support European companies over Chinese ones.

artifix ,

Except Nokia isn’t European anymore since Microsoft ruined them and sold the brand to the Chinese company HMD Global. You’re welcome.

Secret300 ,

I thought hmd was based in Finland?

rab ,
@rab@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah that guy is full of shit, their HQ is in Espoo, I’ve been there.

KpntAutismus ,

they started manufacturing a specific model in the EU, though much more expensive.

rmuk ,

Not only is HMD Global not Chinese, they’re actually the same Finnish company that people think of as “Nokia”. Nokia do a lot more than just phones and they sold their mobile phone arm to Microsoft, who then spun it off as it’s own company called HMD who licensed the Nokia name.

If you want to buy from a European brand, HMD/Nokia are worth considering.

artifix ,

Well, shit…you’re right. I messed up. I was pretty sure HMD is Chinese. Sorry for the drama, I felt very frustrated with Nokia since the downfall of Lumia. I’ll consider it, but looking forward to get the shiftphone 8 when released atm.

GeneralInterest ,

You are wrong. HMD is a Finnish company, not Chinese. Apparently it is largely made up of former Nokia employees.

If you’re going to be a smart-arse and say things like “you’re welcome”, maybe you should check the facts first.

emergencyfood ,

Sadly, Nokia doesn’t support custom ROMs. But apart from that, they’re great.

AzureRT ,
@AzureRT@reddthat.com avatar

S24U comes with 256GB, not 128

Buffalox ,

Yes you are right, I just remembered it was small for the price, especially considering it does NOT have micro-SD.

Mannimarco ,

Fuck them for removing the headphone jack, it makes no sense at all

BoBTFish ,
@BoBTFish@kbin.social avatar

I have the 4 and haven't missed it once 🤷

Mannimarco ,

That seems to be most people, but for me it’s a deal breaker.

Plopp ,

Good for you.

sudneo ,

They have literally an explanation for this on their website. You might disagree, but saying “it makes no sense”…makes no sense.

Also, they discontinued the earbuds and still no jack on FP5, so the idea that “they wanted to sell their own buds” doesn’t seem to be likely.

Mannimarco ,

It makes no sense to me, their whole deal is sustainability, by removing the headphone jack it forces me to buy Bluetooth headphones that all have batteries in them and are presumably not up to Fairphone standards of sustainability.

And saying we’re just following market trends sounds like a shitty explanation to me. I have the 3, I’ll use it for as long as it works but after that no Fairphone for me.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

USB-C earbuds exist. No one is “forcing” you to do anything.

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

Which is still having to buy a second set of earbuds/headphones when there’s no need for it. Or buy a separate dongle (a major pain in the ass over time).

This is not “sustainability” friendly design.

Mannimarco ,

Headphone jacks also exist, so I won’t be buying this phone.

TwoCubed ,
  • can’t charge the phone when the USB port is in use
  • can’t use the aux input of any external devices
  • can’t use the headphones with anything else
  • shitty experience as someone else here mentioned
  • …

I like my Pixel 7 Pro but its also my first phone without a headphone jack and I hate it. Bluetooth is such a shitty standard and the USB dongles suck ass too. Why the fuck did they have to get rid of something so simple and practical…

sudneo ,

Our starting point for design is longevity, which means making our devices more repairable, a very different approach to the electronics industry standard. To support maximum longevity and because of the IP rating, Fairphone 4 does not feature a headphone jack. In the end, it comes down to how we make a product that lasts for at least five years. We needed to eliminate as many vulnerabilities as possible, and the headphone jack is subject to dust and water ingress over time.

Again, you might disagree, you might know better, I don’t know. But this is their motivation when it comes to longevity and hence sustainability. To me, it seems a reasonable idea: if the jack helps reducing the consumption of batteries in headphones but decreases the lifespan of the phones, it seems a bad tradeoff.

EngineerGaming ,
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

Even after switching to a wireless headset (because the previous ones all broke at the wire), I would rather not use a device with no headphone jack. My headset has a very long battery life and can apparently have its battery changed fairly easily (big enough to be held together by screws). But neither of this can be said about earbuds, so my earbuds are staying wired.

KpntAutismus ,

i carry an emergemcy audio adpater ony keychain now, thanks fairphone.

also, two of the 4 audio adapters i have are starting to break down, forcing me to buy new ones. real sustainable you guys

and yes, the one fairphone sells is one of the broken ones.

romp_2_door ,

punish them by not buying their phone

I see so many be “angry” at them and yet they still buy the phone

Mannimarco ,

I’m not buying it, I have a Fairphone 3 and I’ll use it for as long as it works

raspberriesareyummy ,

As someone who knows a good portion of the Fairphone staff in person, and knows they have a great atmosphere and are mostly great people: Fuck you @Fairphone for leaving my perfectly working FP1 dead in the water without SW updates, and removing the spare parts for the FP2 from the store around the time my FP2 needed them (USB charging port, battery), and for making every new fairphone larger, not offering a SINGLE phone in a proper pocket size (like the FP1).

For users who can live with the tablet-size of modern smartphones: Yes, repairability and longterm support for more recent phones appears not too bad, certainly better than most competitors, but still - if you are someone like me, who treats a phone well, you can not expect to be able to find spare parts by the time wear & tear from normal use will make it necessary.

Fake4000 ,

That’s interesting. Can parts be found on other resellers or sites or is Fair phone the only suppliers for these parts?

This kinda defeats the purpose of buying one.

raspberriesareyummy ,

From other people you would only get used parts. To be fair, the Fairphone community is quite good and supportive, and there are people there that collect broken phones from users, salvage them for parts & repair phones for users. But if you would like to procure original, new parts, you should not count on the FP company to provide any beyond the support duration that they promise in writing (not sure what that is right now).

Carobu ,

Why would anyone ever expect any company to provide more support than they provide in writing? They are still trying to make a profit and not supporting a more than 10 year old device is perfectly reasonable. They only shipped 60,000 of the thing and it’s got a GB of RAM. The second model, the 2 still has parts available ~9 years on. I’m really not seeing the issue here.

raspberriesareyummy ,

I have a feeling you did not read my comments. The second model does NOT have parts available, that’s just plain wrong. They’ve been out of stock for more than 3 years.

And as for the why, that’s because not everyone is a capitalist piece of shit, and that’s exactly the image that Fairphone is aiming for, and therefore when they advertise for sustainability, not supporting old devices is a dumb move.

Companies and people who put profit first are a cancer to this world.

Buffalox , (edited )

If I pay about a 100% premium for the service, over a comparable phone, I expect service.

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

If you can’t buy parts a decade after something is purchased, the repairability is a gimmick, a sales trick.

I’m not making a joke, that’s the truth of it, imo.

That’s how old the fairphone is.

My lgg3 is a year younger, and it’s a pain in the ass to find a real battery, but LG didn’t sell the thing with the idea of users being able to repair and upgrade. You expect an LG phone to have poor parts availability after a decade.

Like you said, a phone under normal use should last a decade plus. Barring failure of the main board, which is kinda where replacing that part means it’s a new phone rather than a repaired phone, if you’re still left with a device that you can’t get parts for, it’s landfill waste. Kinda puts a damper on sustainability as a factor.

Fairphone is a gimmick, and it always has been. A good gimmick to be sure, but a gimmick.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Sadly yes, I like the company philosophy, and I understand that - with regards to device size - due to them being small, they can only run 1 product line, no parallel small phone. But what I do not understand then is how they feel they have to release a new model every 2 years, which also drives switching the production lines for older model spare parts. That’s not sustainability in my eyes. I was severely disappointed after Fairphone advocated for repairability with “the most sustainable smartphone is your old one, if you continue using it”, and still having my Fairphone 1(!) in tip top condition (the only part that broke was the power button, which I repaired myself with an iFixit tool & a soldering iron) but no longer being able to use it because SW support is discontinued. I was even more disappointed when my FP2 finally started having problems charging because the USB port was becoming wobbly / loose, and not being able to purchase a new bottom module because “sorry, we’re on FP4 now, only spare parts we still ship are FP3 and higher”.

So now I am on shiftphone 6mq - which is not necessarily smaller, but might be usable with free OS + docking station sooner than a FP ever will.

As you say - a good gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.

kalpol ,

No Lineage support for Fairphones?

raspberriesareyummy ,

Sorry, I meant with a Linux-like OS usable as a (albeit low performance) desktop computer

beaxingu ,
@beaxingu@kbin.run avatar

is a smartphone not a gimmick to begin with.

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

Ehhhh, depends on how much you stretch the meaning, but I can see where you’re coming from for sure

Grippler ,

It’s my primary computer these days, so it’s definitely a useful tool and not a gimmick for me…I do still own a laptop, but I only use it for the very few things I do that require a KB/M combo. I’d say >95% of everything that requires a computer/digital access I do with my phone.

agent_flounder ,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

I always think about auto repair when repairability comes up. I could still get parts for my 30yo jeep. Hell people make parts for collector vehicles, even 90 year old Model A cars.

Now, you might say modern cars are less repairable but I can also get software to diagnose and configure my 5yo Toyota 4Runner. And if I upgrade some parts it doesn’t void the warranty because of consumer friendly laws.

Tech would be very different if it followed these patterns.

udon ,

Same here, they lost me after fp1 which didn’t receive security updates anymore. FP2 had this weird rubber band that got loose quickly with everyone I know who had one. Stopped following after that.

orclev ,

Ultimately the problem is Google. The minimum system requirements for Android keep going up with every release and Google stops providing updates to older releases at some point (typically 5 years after that version was initially released). That effectively puts an upper bound on the lifespan of any phone as at some point the phones CPU and memory aren’t good enough to run the latest Android version at acceptable speeds. The lower end a phone was at original manufacturing the faster this all happens as well.

Apple is just as bad (far worse in some ways).

I’ve tried to find a solution, and the best I’ve seen is Linux phone, but that comes with some major downsides that are going to be deal breakers for most people. The two biggest ones are that battery life is abysmal unless you enable hibernation, but doing so, at least a year or so ago when I looked into it, disables your ability to receive calls while the phone is in hibernation. And secondly that NFC essentially doesn’t work, or at least not for anything you care about like being able to make payments.

raspberriesareyummy ,

I tried a Pinephone with postmarketOS and I concur with the battery life - I could never use the pinephone practically, because in standby laying in the shelf, the battery is dead in about 30 hours.

I so wished there was a Linux distribution with proper phone support & tuned to sustain the battery power, but usable with a docking station.

My dream is to no longer have to carry a laptop anywhere, just my phone, and a keyboard (if needed) and mouse, and a USB-C hub with HDMI cable, mouse & keyboard USB ports, then plug in that phone to a hotel TV or a monitor at a business partner’s place and work directly on the phone.

Laptop stays reserved for stuff that requires more computing power than LibreOffice.

Buffalox ,

Absolutely, Pinephone is an awesome project for tinkering, but it’s not a practical alternative to just buying a cheap phone.

raspberriesareyummy ,

A pity since I love the convergence package + phone, but battery is dead before I have used the phone…

udon ,

Well, with fp1 specifically Google was not the main culprit. The phone used a chip (I think by mediatek?) and the producer didn’t publish the drivers. The Fairphone team promised to reverse engineer that for a while and at some point just said they won’t do it after all. That was the reason you couldn’t install other images on it, not cpu speed

raspberriesareyummy ,

The FP2 rubber casing was discontinued for that reason, but the cheap plastic shells also broke quickly (well - from falls, mostly :D so they did accomplish what they are there for: protect the phone itself from breaking). I think beyond the initial rubber shell (which also disconnected from the harder plastic shell for me) I went through 3-4 hard shells, all of which I got for free from FP though on community meetings @ the FP HQ.

udon ,

Yeah, but I’m not convinced by their approach anymore as a sustainable solution. Luckily the phone feature race has mostly come to a halt, so there is a chance now for free OS options to come up (which is what we’re seeing at the moment).

The part about tracking where the material comes from us good in principle, but mostly as a proof of concept so regulators can increase pressure on big manufacturers (if Fairphone can do it, apple/Samsung should also be able to). But regulators don’t regulate, unfortunately

raspberriesareyummy ,

Regulators gonna regulate take bribes, I guess

tabular ,
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

My understanding is that they alone can’t give driver updates, which is why they choose a chip for FP5 which will get supported longer. (That doesn’t explain regular software not getting updates)

I assume you looked elsewhere for Fairphone 1 parts?

raspberriesareyummy ,

You mean FP2 parts? I could have gotten them only from the Fairphone community. But I spent some time waiting for an opportunity where we would have met anyways, and I found no battery replacement, because tjat was the first component in most FP2s to fail (apart from a Display problem which was early on though and fixed under warranty)

systemglitch ,

Well you convinced me to avoid them. I use my phone’s for about a decade each.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Not proud of that but it is an honest report of my user experience, sadly.

axo ,

But tgats stupid, since no manufacturer has parts available for that long. And fairphone released an update for the FP2 after 8 years of being available. Thats crazy! I think it got out around the same time as the Samsung S3. Try finding a genuine battery for that thing.

And also the FP1 and FP2 were sold in really low quantities. The FP3 was the first proper product, which therefor has much better support and will have parts available for much longer

systemglitch ,

That’s a fair perspective, but that is also not what I consider “sustainable” as they themselves claim to be. I fail to see how that is stupid, stupid is calling ones company sustainable, when it’s not ten years down the line.

Trust already broken.

axo ,

Well, android itself is only 15 years old. To put that into perspective.

But yes, I would also be hella mad if they stopped supporting the FP4 or FP5 after “only” 8 or 10 years.

papertowels ,

This is why I’ve been holding off on getting one myself. I know murena sells the phone in the US, but last I checked they didn’t sell parts, so there’s no point in a repairable phone if I can’t get parts.

Ross_audio ,

I’d prefer a smaller phone too but my main problem is fairphone ditched the headphones jack.

Then sold Bluetooth earbuds.

They don’t care about electronic waste, they want their customers to throw away wired headphones and buy earbuds with batteries and wireless.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Oh did they? That is insanely dumb… :(

Fake4000 ,

The phone is great and things can be replaced easily. My only issue with the phone is it’s price. It’s quite high compared to phones with similar specs.

Thekingoflorda ,
@Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world avatar

Yea that’s what happens if the company at least tries to make it repairable and not made by exploited people.

TheGrandNagus ,

It’s because they try to ethically source as much of the phone as possible, and go out of their way to pay fair wages and ensure no forced labour is used in the supply chain.

Unfortunately that adds significant cost.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Unfortunately that adds significant cost.

That’s not unfortunate, that’s logical. Unfortunately, other companies are allowed to exploit humans and the environment for more profit despite lower prices.

WhatAmLemmy ,

It’s amazing when you realize that modern civilization as we know it depends on numerous layers of slavery, child labor, and general worker exploitation.

nikt ,

Also don’t forget the “externalized” costs of massive and irreversible environmental damage!

raspberriesareyummy ,

Yeah I feel all it takes is 5% of mankind to have evil / selfish intentions, to corrupt the system

TheGrandNagus ,

Well yeah, I mean unfortunate as in it’s unfortunate it makes it a harder buy. I’m not pissed off that it’s more ethically produced.

cashews_best_nut ,

They only harvest from sustainable phone forests. 👍

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

There are those who are happy to be in the market for a new device, who delight in discovering how phones have improved since they last upgraded and who can’t wait to reap the benefits of better low-light camera performance, a prettier display, and more premium build quality.

They’re the people who respond with despair when they’re told that their phone has reached the end of its software support period or that it’s no longer cost-effective to repair a seemingly minor hardware fault.

But now the phone comes equipped with technological advancements such as a modern OLED display with a high refresh rate, more robust waterproofing, and a higher-capacity battery.

To that end, there are actually more individually accessible modules this time around, which is nice if you, say, only need to replace one rear camera that’s broken or swap out a faulty SIM card tray.

That’s better than the IP54 rating of the Fairphone 4 (which was still resilient enough for me to use throughout an exceptionally rainy hike), but it still falls short of allowing you to fully immerse the device in water like you can do with an IP68-rated phone.

In low light, the phone produces superficially nice shots, but peer a little closer, and it looks like this is the work of aggressive processing, with a lot of fine detail smoothed out and colors artificially boosted.

The original article contains 1,968 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 88%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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