Legit though, the difference in his delivery in the movie and on Kimmel was more profound than it seems. I wish the take he had on it, that look of wonder and awe, had been in the movie.
Say what you will about him, but the guy can do nuanced acting.
Also, if I thought I had a chance of being in that good of a shape at 93, I’d want to get there.
I’ve always outright believed the “Trelane is a Q” fan theory and adopted it as my own head canon. There are too many similarities between both of the characters to ignore. Honestly, one could even argue that they might be the same Q which is a theory I’m starting to enjoy more and more. Who’s to say that TNG Q isn’t just Trelane all grown up?
The similarities between Trelane and Q are pretty huge which is where the original theory came from but if you start analyzing specific events and comparing them further, there are things to suggest that Trelane was a child but our TNG Q was initially just a teenager. That we’ve been watching Trelane grow up over the course of the entire series.
Both of them are susceptible to rage when being laughed at, belittled, or ignored and both of them see themselves as Judge of all. Where Trelane started with kindness and hospitality, our Q knows none of it because he’s already given it to them as Trelane and seen what they were like. After what must be incalcuable amounts of time to a mortal, Trelane was no longer being punished by his parents. So he set off again with specific vengeance for humanity after what he’s seen from the Enterprise crew. Now older and with his powers fully developed, both of material control as well as now nearly full omniscience, he heads to the Enterprise again. Sure, he could alter time and go back and mess with Kirk but he had time to progress. He always gave them a “fair chance” (in his mind) so why wouldn’t he this time? See how far Humanity had advanced from the arrogant and backtalking savages that they were, pushing him into a position where he had to be punished by his parents.
So he rocks up on the Enterprise-D. Why introduce himself as Trelane though and start that all over again? Give them a “fair chance”, yet again, by saying who he is and what he actually is. No hiding. No illusions. So he toys with them. For the Enterprise crew (and viewers), this Godlike being is just unnecessarily and out of NOWHERE fucking with them. Dragging them around and impeding them just to annoy them. We’ve never gotten a proper reason as to why Q chose that moment and that time to start screwing with people or why he came with such intense hostility. Sure he uses the “You are too arrogant, pushing into the stars” but… he’s God. Humanity, and the Federation, barely know anything about the galaxy their in. He’s GOD. He’s got the whole universe and timelines he can fuck with but Humanity specifically is really that much of a threat? I mean, a decade later Voyager is about to be flung across the galaxy and struggle like hell to get home. Wouldn’t they be a better test of what Humanity is truly like? When pushed into these specific conditions and not just ripped from reality and dropped into a bath like a plaything?
But the more that Trelane/Q fucks with Humanity the more he realizes that he’s holding onto that petty grudge. He can’t really let it go now though because he’s set himself up as this judge and due to all that time focusing on them, and the realization that he might be wrong, he is starting to like these fucking backward apes. One in particular even. A captain who is similar enough to Kirk to bring out that hostility initially but different enough to make Q realize he was wrong. Despite being omniscient, it’s almost like Q is realizing and seeing things for the first time in that pilot episode. You can know stuff but ignore that information due to whatever emotional reason. Look at political opinions for more than enough proof of that. Ignoring reality and fact to suit your own needs or to suit a specific narrative that was pre-built. I say that’s what Q was doing. He might have known everything about humanity but he didn’t care or was ignoring it because he was frustrated that the crew of the original Enterprise fucked with him on Gothos.
I don’t know that I would go as far as Trelaine is Q, just because we’ve seen at least one other Q like DeLancie’s Q- namely, Corbin Bernsen’s Q that gives his powers back to him. Most Q seem to not give a shit. About anything if Voyager has anything to say about it. Maybe there are some who do and there’s plenty of reasons for them to toy with the various corporeal beings they encounter since apparently they have no real moral code.
That said, Trelaine’s parents behaved like Trelaine was doing something bad, so maybe that’s an argument against him being a Q.
Anyway, there’s a lot of room to discuss this I think.
I’m not seeing the comparison between Q2 and Q though. Q2 was tasked with stripping Q of his powers because the Q Continuum/Q2 got tired of constantly apologizing on behalf of Qs bullshit, the same thing that Trelanes parents had to do. He didn’t like humanity but I mean none of the Q in general seem to “like” them so much as tolerate as you mentioned. Some Q fuck with humanity but only now after Our Q has fucked with humanity. They seemed to have exactly zero interest in us until randomly during the Encounter at Farpoint one particular Q gets pissed for seemingly no real reason and starts toying with them like an asshole, Trelanes bit almost to the letter. Even going so far as to throw Humanities history in the face of them now while only understanding the form and not the substance (same as the food and fire).
It’s just bizarre to me that no one in the Q Continuum gives a fuck about humanity at all for millenia, then a child messes with them for a short period of time, everyone ignores them again and then randomly there’s an adult Q whos hellbent on fucking with Humanity at every opportunity.
If you think about the range of organisms just here on Earth - from single-celled creatures like bacteria, or below that even with viruses that are just DNA wrapped in proteins, to other single-celled creatures like Amoeba (yes, that’s an enormous range still in just the realm of single-celled creatures alone!), to multicellular plants, animals, birbs (haha lolz we know those aren’t real!), and finally humans who can literally split and harness the power of the atom - then extrapolate that to the whole Universe in Star Trek, we don’t need to think that every super-powerful creature seen is a “Q”.
To an amoeba, already every one of the numerous forms of insect life on planet Earth is like a “Q”. In that sense then, Q itself was an oddity - not in being a race with that much power, but in choosing to even bother to interact with the lesser forms. After all, we do not do that, to the ones multiple rungs down on the hierarchy below us (or if we do, e.g. yeast, we don’t “introduce” ourselves to them, as Q did to humans).
I think it is consistent with Star Trek’s philosophy, especially in TOS, that we are not supposed to “know” everything, about the VASTNESS of the large, wide universe it is in:-).
It isn’t canon, but it could easily be made canon. And even though I didn’t really like the idea at first, I now feel like it would be a good way to retroactively shore up Star Trek lore.
I find it hard to believe that there are MULTIPLE demigod-like species in the Milky Way alone. I feel like they would have stepped on each other’s toes until only one prevailed (actual gods like the Prophets wouldn’t care or be affected). Having Trelaine just be an errant baby “Q” who got scolded for consorting with mortals prevents that inevitability.
Definitely. Although I’m not happy about Georgiou in it. Nothing against Michelle Yeoh, but I think we’ve had enough of her. I can’t accept her as any sort of hero or even anti-hero when she committed genocide.
Personally, I’d have liked it it be a section 31 Time Travel reunion, and had Malcolm Reed, Trip Tucker, Georgiou, Ash Tyler, Julian Bashir and clone Boimler, but a) we’d have heard about that by now and b) I admit it might be a bit fan-wankery to support a standalone film.
Star Trek inspired me by showing me a galaxy full of equals, and a galaxy where you don’t interfere with indigenous cultures. A federation of worlds where everyone’s needs are taken care of and human rights are respected.
And most importantly, an imperative to talk things out in a hostile situation before shooting.
That last line is what hits me the most. Probably because if we did the last line first then the others would fall into place. One can understand quite a lot by simply listening.
I mean Shatner is a total dick but I still love Kirk.
Meh, I think I for one can respect Shatner’s “dickery.”
As in-- he’s a really good actor who never wanted to be typecast as Captain Kirk, and is rightfully a bit short with ST fans on average. OTOH, it’s not like he goes out of his way to stir shit up or cast aspersions. More like he’s typically wanted to be left alone by Trekkies & Trekkers, and I can understand that.
He’s also taken the time to write a lot of interesting books, some of them biographical, some of them about ST, and also do an interview series.
I would never in a million years expect that I could walk up to a big star in public and expect to be treated like some long-lost friend of a fan. Some stars are amazingly good with that, but that’s on them.
It’s not about his reaction to fans. His Star Trek co-stars have a lot to say about how he was rude to them and just generally arrogant. He and Nimoy hated each other for years. They supposedly made up, but Shatner didn’t attend his funeral. His excuse was he was scheduled to do a fundraiser.
You’re in the ballpark with that stuff, but you’re also significantly off on a lot by my readings and understandings. For example:
Shatner’s co-stars were annoyed with him not because he was rude to them per se, but because he was a line-hog, which could actually cut in to their future opportunity & salaries because they had less content online via ST. I’m not trying to excuse that, but let’s call the situation for what it is, and let’s also not forget that he took ownership of that later on, and had good relationships with Nichols, Kelly, Nimoy, and Koenig, with Takei and Doohan scorning him.
Yes, he was arrogant, and I believe always was, but so are a tonne of leads, big stars, and very talented people. Yes, in an ideal world it wouldn’t be like that, but… what are you going to do? Reinvent humanity?
He and Nimoy did NOT hate each other for any significant years AFAIK. In fact from my readings they clashed early, found a way to work it out, and were in fact fast friends for many decades until they had some kind of falling out late in Nimoy’s life. Please let’s not get it twisted, dude.
Takei has outright said, repeatedly, that Shatner was a prick. Not line hogging or bad directing. That he was actively a shitty person to be around in any form and that he didn’t respect anyone around him. This is backed up by his having footage made of someone for a movie. Someone who, ahead of time, said he did not consent to the footage.
Just because other people are pricks does not give him a pass to be one. Plenty of people work in positions just like him and aren’t nightmares to work with.
That some kind of falling out is what I just described above. Shatner was making a Trek documentary and asked Nimoy to be a part of it. Nimoy categorically said no. Shatner then discretely recorded footage of Nimoy anyway, against his consent, and used that footage in his movie. Nimoy was furious and never spoke to Shatner again. Shatner then wrote a book about his friendship with Nimoy where his name was almost as big on the cover as Nimoys. In the book he admitted to doing this and them not talking.
In that same book, Shatner demonstrates repeatedly why he’s an asshole by such things as getting angry that Spock got more fan mail than him.l and says the only reason they had any basis of a friendship was because Shatner saw Nimoy be a hard ass with contract negotiations so they started negotiating together.
I have no problem with the accuracy of any of that, and appreciate you laying out the details based on your readings and knowledge.
For my part, putting this all together in to ‘Shatner is a bad person’ is going way too far. To me he’s got his positive qualities and negative ones, and the negative ones mainly involve him being an asshole and little more. Well, I can live with that and appreciate his art and career no problem as opposed to people like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein, who were obviously way, way more than just assholes to people.
Hollywood is filled with egoistic jackasses, and Shatner’s behavior is just a blip on the radar to me. Not to mention, he’s great fun to mock in certain ways! To wit, the greatest blog I’ve ever read: shatnerstoupee.blogspot.com
Dude. The people he himself called friends also call him an unrepentant asshole and a bad person. If that doesn’t make him a bad person, the people knowing him best calling him that, then I genuinely don’t know what will prove he’s a cunt to you.
You can enjoy someones art while being aware that they’re a shitty person and just because Bill Cosby is worse doesn’t give Shatner any passes either. The fact you’re comparing the badness of people to dismiss Shatners shitty behavior is just mind boggling to me.
Okay, mister high & mighty, sinless judge of people,
go ahead and give your specific references, books and page numbers, interviews and timestamps with Shatner’s colleagues calling him a ‘bad and shitty person.’
Take your time, and I’ll keep an open mind.
When that’s done, I’ll duly compare that to what I’ve read and heard from interviews, and attempt to fit the pieces together.
EDIT: And yeah, you sound utterly obsessed at this point. As if it was a nuclear disaster that someone didn’t share your extremely negative take on Shatner.
This is your only warning. Keep it civil as per community rules. I don’t appreciate being personally attacked because you disagree with me. I questioned you. I never attacked you like this. Either drop it or change this behavior.
So you’re relentlessly attacking a 3rd person’s character, and are now offended that I’m mildly mocking you as a response, asking you to share proof?
As a ~25 year admin and mod across various sites & projects, you disappoint me.
As I see you’re a mod here, let me give you a suggestion-- be more professional and neutral, in future. Don’t be both a community leader and someone who viciously tears in to one of the franchise’s most beloved actors without proof, next time.
All I did was say be civil or drop it. I am being professional and neutral. If you are an admin and a mod then you should understand the basic responsibility one holds to make sure the rules are kept to. You actively violated the rules of this community. Accept responsibility for your actions and deal with the consequences of a warning. This is not a discussion about my moderator style or your credentials being something to excuse your behavior. It is a warning to stick to the rules of this community.
Moreover, if you wanted proof you could ask for it politely, respectfully and without any unnecessary ad hominem attacks against myself and I would be more than happy to provide the litany of evidence from his co stars as well as excerpts of his own book. Stuff that is abundantly well known, talked about consistently at conventions, by the actors themselves, and even have entire books written on the subject. You, however, never asked for it politely. Don’t try to shift the goal posts. If you want to continue this discussion on a polite basis then I’m all for it but I am not going to be insulted and lectured.
You are playing up the ‘ad hom’ stuff like nobody I’ve ever seen before. It’s gone from disappointment to embarrassment, frankly. Talk about a tiny bit of internet power being used to attack someone else, then hide behind the sub’s ‘rules.’ And of course, sidestep actual facts to back up your argument.
The fact that you’re so utterly clueless about all this indicates to me that you have a long ways to go towards being a self-aware, professional, neutral mod.
This will be my last reply to you on this matter, and of course you can do what you like with your mod toolbox. In any case, here’s a suggestion to be better in future, and good luck to you.
They made up? Everything I’ve said showed that Nimoy died hating Shatner. Shatner was doing a Trek documentary and asked Nimoy to be part of it and Nimoy said no. So Shatner used footage of him anyway. Considering Shatner being, well, himself I wouldn’t be surprised if Nimoy said fuck him after 40-30 years and walled the prick off.
Edit: Shatner said in his 2016 book that they never made up and never spoke for 5 years prior to his death. That book? About his supposed friendship with Nimoy.
Shatner did ask for Nimoys consent to be part of The Captains and Nimoy said no. So Shatner sent someone to a convention to record him and ask questions. Nimoy found out and was enraged and never spoke with him again in the last 5 years of Nimoys life. Shatner revealed it himself in his 2016 book about his relationship with Nimoy. In it he still down plays it by said “it was so small”.
I fucking hate that man. It’s why I am so insanely glad that I’ve gotten to spend a little time with a couple of my Trek heroes who are incredible people. Having Anthony Rapp on my PlayStation friend list? Glorious. I’ve messaged him so many times asking stupid DSC questions.
I have not, we’re both more into single player games. The dude is a beast though. 100%s or platinums every game he gets into. His trophy cabinet is just 100% and 2%. It’s insane.
I was thoroughly surprised when I found out but it makes sense. If you’re always working, a good video game can really fill some of the time and help take you away. I just assumed Anthony was more of a theater geek (probably because of Rent) than a nerd and leaned more towards physical things to do.
Shatner does not get a singular pass on the being left alone by Trekkies when he churns out as much ST stuff as he can to get paid. Like I’m not going to begrudge him for doing Trek stuff but he doesn’t get to sit in the captains chair and whine about how people don’t stop asking about the ship.
Feels like her original commentary was more born out of ignorance. And while I’m not condoning her actions, I understand them. And she’s since recanted and is apparently trying to educate herself on the matter, which is definitely better than some.
Then there’s the power element. When you’re in a position like hers, the word “no” will be repeated less and less, and that will definitely skew how you approach the world. Her getting backlash and a suspension could be the “no” she’s needed for years.
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