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WhiskyTangoFoxtrot , (edited )

Superman was already going after CEOs when Batman was first created. Batman was always a hero for the right wing.

XeroxCool ,

Is this a ThinBlueLine x Punisher crossover episode?

queue , (edited )
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

CEOs of companies existed in 1939, and did before. 1939 would have been the time of the great depression, World War 2, fascism, and Batman didn’t go after them, he went after the people who needed work and took the last chance they had.

Bruce Wayne is just a form of Bill Gates. Donates millions to charity, good causes, hospitals, fighting diseases, but he still has lots of more money than when he did before all this “charity”. The difference is that Gates doesn’t put on a mask and go punch the poor of Seattle.

If Batman was real, he’d be a dickhead, worse than Musk or Bezos.

EDIT: Why mine and no one elses? This dude is annoying.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Yeah because when I think of the working class I think lunatics dressed like clowns arming chemical weapon dispersing explosives on the orders of a guy who caught a chemical burn induced skin condition and decided everyone was gonna die suffocating over it.

Batman is a detective, a detective! 99% of what he does has nothing to do with fighting, you just don’t hate read the detective work because Batman going out of his way to find the murderer of some nobody with nobody to care enough to ask it be done doesn’t feed this bizarre obsession some folks have with making Batman the worst thing ever because he has money as a plot convenience to explain where all his insane tech comes from.

Also, he does constantly do work addressing wealth inequality by backing community efforts to relieve the effects of poverty and by championing community leaders standing up to corruption. Why doesn’t it work? Because there’s a literal criminal conspiracy of the wealthiest of Gotham dating back centuries that most recent versions of Batman has been at war with since near the outset of his investigative career. Again, read any of the comic books published in the last like 20 years and this would all be entry level stuff.

Also, Gotham’s gangs are not normal gangs, like I exampled above, but also consider the sheer level of advanced education or ability to outsmart most folks who have one Gotham’s criminal leaders have. Even Joker is heavily implied to have retained advanced chemical engineering training from before he went psycho.

If the idea that even one rich person has genuinely good intentions and does genuine work addressing the causes of criminal activity at every level is that hard for people to grasp, maybe just put the comics down and find another topic because man are you all gonna struggle with basically everything else you’re gonna find in the genre.

MindTraveller ,

I had an upvote on your comment until the last paragraph. But that’s a bad last paragraph.

Batman is a good person and that’s why it’s fiction.

Revan343 ,

Why doesn’t it work? Because there’s a literal criminal conspiracy of the wealthiest of Gotham dating back centuries that most recent versions of Batman has been at war with since near the outset of his investigative career.

Also, Gotham is literally cursed

PhlubbaDubba ,

Was that actually confirmed or was it just Joker vandalizing historical documents to make bruce think he knew about a Lazarus pit under the bat cave?

Revan343 , (edited )

The exact nature of the curse varies, but it’s canonically cursed in most continuities

leftzero ,

Batman is a detective, a detective! 99% of what he does has nothing to do with fighting

Wayne’s a deranged lunatic. 99% of what he does has everything to do with failing to cope with childhood trauma (and a bad case of affluenza), and very little to do with any real events happening around him.

PhlubbaDubba ,

99% of what he’s doing is using his own past traumas as a tool to prevent similar traumas from happening to other children.

If you can’t see your batman comforting a dying child in her last moments, you don’t have batman, you have the punisher in a funny hat.

Stop commenting on the punisher in a funny hat and telling us you’re talking about the guy with the best track record in comics for rehabilitating rogue’s gallery members if not completely then to the point of finding a place in society where they can live their peace, save maybe for the flash, depends on how much of his rogue’s gallery by mass is currently evil speedsters.

explodicle ,

Watch The Boys

assassinatedbyCIA ,

No he won’t. Batman wasn’t the good guy

JackbyDev ,

You’re thinking of Poison Ivy.

Delusional ,

And politicians. Clearly corrupt republican politicians who are trying to destroy democracy for some reason.

Foni ,

I once read that Superman was a humble man who faces big exploitative businessmen, while Batman is a big exploitative businessman who stands up to homeless people. The implications of Batman being more popular than Superman today and what this says about our society is enough for a complete essay.

awesome_lowlander ,

Or Batman’s more popular because he’s a more interesting character. Superman can only experience kryptonite so many times before you start to suspect he never actually left the planet Krypton.

Foni ,

Maybe, or maybe they have bad writers because they are not able to imagine credible stories in which Superman’s strength is useless in the face of the corruption of the system and the businessmen who abuse their power, no one would believe stories like that, you need to add kryptonite to make it realistic

awesome_lowlander ,

useless in the face of the corruption of the system and the businessmen who abuse their power

You could put any superhero in that situation and have a story. But if it’s just a white-collar crime setting, would Supe then be any different from any other Tom Dick or Harry? Is it even a superhero comic at that point? It would be interesting to some, but I can see why the writers wouldn’t want to take that risk.

Foni ,

Well, I’m not a big comic reader but that’s what the story with Lex Luthor is about, right? how all of Superman’s immense power is useless against the intelligence of a rich and evil man. I think that is the most famous antagonist and that has transcended the comics the most for a reason. Maybe for fans it’s doomsday or zod, but for casual readers and the general public it is lex and it is for good reason.

awesome_lowlander ,

what the story with Lex Luthor is about

I dunno, seems to end with a big fight and / or kryptonite almost as often anyway. Then again, doesn’t that kinda undermine your original point?

Foni ,

Then again, doesn’t that kinda undermine your original point?

I don’t understand why that should be done, the character stops being popular, so good writers stop having interest in working on it, they try to revitalize it with different stories, etc. whether the loss of popularity precedes the bad stories or not is not something that I am in a position to determine. In any case it wasn’t my point, I’m not a big fan of comics, I read it there and in movies/television, which if I continue a little more, it makes some sense

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

“They’re the same picture.”

XiozTzu ,

Who you want is Rorschach as others have pointed out Batman is part of the problem. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_(character)

Enkrod , (edited )

FUCK NO!

Rorschach is a fascist, he only works in absolutes and while the Batman tries not to kill, Rorschach has no such regard for human life. He detests the junky as much as the murderer, for him there is only pureness and evil, every little bit of amoral behavior will be punished and at the same time he considers his own vigilantism as above the law.

He’s a misogynist who thinks that the Comedian raping Silk Spectre was just a “moral lapse”. He holds even for his time outdated socially conservative views and strongly opposes what we would call (gender and sexual) minority rights.

Rorschach is unbending and uncompromising, he is beholden only to his conservative rigid views of black and white morality with no room for shades of grey. That might not sound so bad at first, but if you think about it, that is definitely not someone who you want as a judge of people.

On top of that he’s a far-right believer, he’s not a government man in the same way the alt-right are not. His thinking is deeply conspiratorial and paranoid with a huge dollop of delusion. He’s better described as an Ayn Rand paleolibertarian.

Thinking about it he definitely would fit right in with today’s alt-right with the only difference that (if - and only if - he would not buy into their conspiracy theories - and he’s very much likely to do so) he would detest Trump for his lying.

But Rorschach is definitely the kinda guy who’d shoot up a pizza place looking for tortured kids in the basement.

I love him as a character, he’s one of the best written vigilante “heros” out there but what’s so fascinating - to me at least - is that his principled moral conviction is contrasted by how immensely unlikeable this man is and how his moral uprightness relies on the moral compass of a deranged 11 year old with a gun.

SharkEatingBreakfast ,
@SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz avatar

Aye. Anyone who idolizes Rorschach is the same person who idolizes Tyler Durden — they’ve missed the entire point of the character in the story.

Zahille7 ,

When I was a kid watching Watchmen, I thought Rorschach was badass with his fight scenes and detective work, like breaking into Dr. Manhattan’s compound. His fight scenes with the swat guys was badass.

Then they make a point to show you multiple times throughout the movie, this gross, shabby looking dude carrying around a “the end is near” sign, following people and giving them the creeps. They definitely didn’t go into the comic enough though.

daniskarma ,

Didn’t the whole TV sequel be about how the Rorschach fanboys became a bunch of nazi terrorists?

Enkrod ,

I didn’t watch that, only the movie and the original comic book

leftzero ,

Rorschach is Batman but worse in every single way. All the childhood trauma and mental illness without any of the money, good manners, or training, and with several extra doses of far right conspiranoia and misogyny.

If you read Rorschach as the good guy in Watchmen, you completely misinterpreted what Moore was trying to say. If there’s any good guys in Watchmen (or at least not bad guys), and that’s a big if, it’s the folks around the newsstand, obviously not counting Kovacs.

AI_toothbrush ,

Pretty sure theres a lot of batman media that confirms that people hate him because he basically just protects the rich. They even call him a billionaire playboy.

kandoh ,

Yeah I was thinking about this in regards to superhero relevance.

A relevant Spider-Man story today would be one in which Spider-Man is saving people from the NYPD. Webbing up cops doing stop and frisk, terrorizing a racist cop, fucking with the mayor who shut down libraries on Sundays.

nieceandtows ,

So, seppuku then?

Emmy ,

Like Bruce never engaged in union busting. He’s literally one of the billionaire class.

He regularly aligns himself with other upper class people to take over the city.

Hell, he has his own gang.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Inb4 the flood of people who get all their batman knowledge from the Nolan trilogy and the stupid one liners they added to Injustice to try and whataboutism him against superman literally murdering people and installing a fascist autocracy.

MindTraveller ,

This is why I’m so excited for Batman Azteca. Aztec warrior Batman killing colonisers like the insane conquistadore Two-Face

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