I've been buying these little boxes from AliExpress for years to use as firewalls and routers. My oldest one is almost 9 years old now! OpenBSD installs just fine. Just a BIOS tweak to always boot up after power is restored.
How?
I’ve been thinking about setting up one of these cheap boxes as a NAS but I cannot ever find one with 4 Sata ports. Is there a solution for this?
I could use external USB Hard drives but that just feels so janky…
Can’t speak to cheap boxes, so usb might be the way, but I use a Zimaboard. Two built in SATA ports, and a pci-e daughter card gives me two more ports. Full disclosure, i don’t do anything more than 1080p, bad eyesight…
I’d love to use a Zimaboard too but they’re not available were I live.
I could import one but the currency conversion + import taxes make it very not worth it.
I personally never understood the desire for BSD. BSD was good back in the day but we now have Linux which is better supported and protected under the GPL.
PfSense and OPNsense are both killer router “out of the box” distros built on BSD. I say this as a Linux user, with little interest in running BSD for my applications, but… Respect to BSD. ✊
I run OpenWRT and it works pretty well. The only potential issue is the updates but if you have a plan it isn’t a problem.
Maybe I’m missing out but from my perspective it is way cheaper to buy a off the shelf router with OpenWRT that can handle gigabit speeds than it is is to build/buy a entire computer that pulls way more power and is several times the cost.
I recently installed OPNsense specifically because I had to buy a mini PC with 2.5 gig ports. There simply isn’t anything reasonable on the market for the prosumer above the 1 gig threshold. Running splendidly on a Beelink EQ12.
Also, OPNsense has things OpenWRT doesn’t offer (plugins, IPS, etc.)
Openwrt works great for gigabit networks with simple firewall rules and no IPS. But used 10-56gbps enterprise equipment is getting pretty cheap, and more complicated firewall configurations need more powerful hardware than the typical openwrt router.
And 56gbps on a home LAN might be overkill, but that’s not important.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been running PFsense for about 5 years, great little toy, not 1 single issue. BSD has been paramount in my life for my firewall needs. And I only run Linux on everything else (desktops and servers), but there is not a single FOSS firewall distro out there that can match, much less surpass, a BSD based firewall.
@madcaesar@otl It's a small server running OpenBSD, configured to operate as a router and/or firewall.
Linux and the *BSDs can operate as very good routers and firewalls, usually being much more configurable and enabling you to do more complex than off-the-shelf consumer-level hardware routers. Using them on a small form factor computer with a cheap switch in front of them can give you a better performing and nicer to use alternative.
Mine died after 2 years after a power cut.
I havent tried to debug it yet. At the time, it would power on but a monitor didnt see anything from the video port, and it didnt seem to actually boot.
I presume it is toast.
If you dont need compact, a rebfurbed SFF with a 4 port network card is gonna be cheaper
I use one with 6 LAN ports and a fanless 10th gen i5 running OPNsense, and it has worked well for years. It runs many services including Unbound DNS and Suricata with capacity to spare. It’s much better than any consumer router, though I run WiFi separately with an Asus AI Mesh set to AP mode.
The only concerns are that you don’t get BIOS updates, and you don’t know for sure that there’s nothing nasty in the firmware. But then you don’t really know that on consumer routers either.
pfSense has a very good record, but OpenBSD’s record and code quality are literally unparalleled.
Conversely, I spend a fair bit of time working on devices made by SonicWall, Fortinet, etc. and it’s all fucking garbage.
Are you concerned about it being designed in China in addition to the conventional and thoroughly ubiquitous “manufactured in China”? Please explain your concerns in detail.
I was wondering… that tp-link probably negates anything remotely resembling security on its own. But yeah, you can update some of these noname boxes easily, others, not so much.
I have dealt with (in a professional capacity) Chinese manufacturers that are under the impression they do not have to provide a working build tree for the kernel, let alone firmware, so its a gamble if you’re not talking to a major Chinese name brand. Mind you, I was ordering hundreds of those boxes, so there was some leverage.
That TP-link is a dumb switch. Unless you’re telling me that someone is going to find an opening in the firmware and hack their way into the ARP table or something (in which case the threat model here just became state actors and I don’t think the OP is safe with this equipment), I don’t think it affects much, if anything.
Now, if I’m mistaken and that is actually a managed switch; god help them with network security.
They do make managed switches, but just to be completely clear, my comment was mostly hyperbole. I just found the general combination of security - mindedness and cheap Chinese hardware curious / amusing.
I did realise that, and apologies for my tone earlier.
With that said, this seems to be a slight bias - unless the PCB has some nefarious spy-chip built inside, hardware is hardware, regardless of where it comes from.
I just found the general combination of security - mindedness and cheap Chinese hardware curious / amusing.
I think it can make sense, since there are so often vulnerabilities in consumer router firmware, and because those devices are so common the vulnerabilities are profitable to exploit. Running a BSD-based router on a cheap Chinese PC is likely to be better security for the router’s OS and software itself, even if you don’t know for sure about the firmware on the board (which you don’t with consumer routers either, really). Overall you could still have reduced your attack surface compared to a popular consumer router.
The problem is that their Web interface and firmware in general are not updated (at all). I think it’s even possible for script kiddies to hack into such managed switches, which forms the reasoning behind my comment.
Does your switch produce its Web interface over TLS?
Doesn’t look like it but if I get up VLANs unless an user is on the correct VLAN they can’t access the web interface. And the only way for them to get access is to get physical access and plug a device into the correct port.
Open source bios yes, but you still have close source firmware blobs for amd/intel used on those systems. The only way to do this is to make 100% of the hardware.
Also please note, I am using coreboot already on my pcengines router.
Few computers use CoreBoot, and CoreBoot still uses proprietary blobs typically. Normally only libreboot has zero blobs, and they are very rare indeed.
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t just based off the UEFI sdk examples containing 30+ CVEs over the last couple of years. If anything, it won’t get patched for logofail and all the others UEFI exploits we’ll definitely see in the coming years.
I recognise that internet router on the right. That looks like the “smart router” Telstra gives their customers - we have one we used to use back when we had Telstra cable. It’s currently playing the duty of an Ethernet switch for dad’s office.
I’m bent on getting as many people as I know to self-host everything possible and to guard their home networks. The garbage out there today is too much.
For sure. I'm hoping that with much cheaper and more reliable hardware
that we have now, it makes it easier for indivduals and small groups
to run services that could only be run by big dysfunctional companies.
Fingers crossed! @jjlinux@selfhosted
It’s not much, but I got a friend from church (die-hard Apple user) to love away from all that crap. He now owns a Pixel 6 Pro running Graphene and is running PopOS on an Intel Mac. Sold his IPhone too.
He says that I am the only person he knows that preaches 2 Gospels 🤣🤣
Ive wanted one of these for a while to replace my ISPs modem+router+switch+wifi-AP. But apparently these devices can be funky to get a good wifi going, and I don’t feel like adding three (mini pc, switch, AP) new devices to my “we don’t talk about it” corner where all the IT is stored. Do you know anything about wifi on these?
Is location the only reason to not use it as the AP? If I had a larger house I’d agree, but as I live in a small apartment, the current router location can easily serve the entire flat, so that is no concern right now.
I picked up a 7 year old Netgear modem/router on eBay that has replaced my ISP modem/router. The WiFi is better, and I can port forward without taking all the cables out of the back (yeah that’s a thing with the ISP one) and forward traffic through my Adguard DNS. Well worth the £25 I bought it for.
Also if it starts annoying me I can throw OPENWRT on it and play with that instead.
How would one go building a router? I was planning on getting wired networks for a NAS build but most providers seem to ship their own router which probably is a nightmare for privacy, can I just pay for internet and use whatever router I want?
OpnSense would be the easiest way if you wanted to go. It’s still not easy, but the articles online should help you out.
First you’d need a machine. I’ve got an m920q I bought off eBay for $135 after shipping.
The computer will likely only have one Ethernet port. And it’s likely the port is Realtek which isn’t supported well.
So, you’ll need to get yourself a NIC (a fancy term for a network card). There are good forum posts and articles online about the best NICs to buy for your needs. Intel is a must. However, you can find many of their NICs online labeled as another brand - usually HP, Lenovo, or Dell. Again, the forum posts will tell you what to look for.
If you bought the same computer I mentioned above, you’ll also need a riser and a bezel. Amazon and eBay will have a good selection.
Now assemble it. Flash the computer with OpnSense. Don’t plug it in as your router yet. Follow along with some basic setup guides online to figure out how you want it configured.
Once you’re happy, plug it in as your router and test that it works. If not, you’ll need to put your old router back in place until you can figure out what you need to change.