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Cadeillac ,
@Cadeillac@lemmy.world avatar

Were you also watching Seinfeld yesterday? It was one of his stand-up bits before or after the show

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I absolutely agree with the thesis that both men and women hunted, but I think the claims of women’s superior endurance are not represented in reality. The fastest marathon time for men is 2 hours 1 minute and for women it is 2 hours 14 minutes. These were in 2023 and 2019 respectively, so it’s not like it was years ago with drastically different treatment of the sexes. Both runners were Kenyans too, so that limits non-sex based biological differences.

I don’t buy that it is socialization. For one thing, the difference disappears in sports like shooting and horseback riding where physicality is not the determining factor. On top of that, when children compete at sports there are negligible performance differences until after puberty. The article mentions the record a woman holds for swimming across the English Channel. I think that women’s higher body fat provides buoyancy that massively reduces the energy required to stay afloat for a prolonged time. We don’t see the same supposed superiority in other endurance events.

This link touches on many of the same topics as the main article and adds some more info.

bbc.com/…/20240731-the-sports-where-women-outperf…

mundane ,

If you look at races that are longer than marathons it seems that the women have the upper edge. ultra-x.co/are-women-better-than-men-at-ultra-run…

But that doesn’t necessarily correlate with hunting.

LibertyLizard OP ,

Well, the theory is that persistence hunting was one of the main hunting strategies during a large portion of human evolution before ranged weapons were invented. So it may well have relevance for distribution of labor between men and women during most of human prehistory, and therefore our evolutionary psychology.

Hegar ,
@Hegar@fedia.io avatar

persistence hunting was one of the main hunting strategies during a large portion of human evolution before ranged weapons were invented

How do ranged weapons invalidate persistence hunting?

If you're trying to chase down an animal till it's exhausted, I think you'd want to be throwing stuff at it to injure or at least to keep it moving.

Also, was there a time before ranged weapons? As soon as humans have weapons we have ranged weapons because we can throw. Atlatls and slings - tools to help you throw sticks and stones - wouldn't have been developed if we weren't already throwing sticks and stones at things.

Anticorp ,

Persistence hunting only worked in areas with wide open terrain, like the African or American plains. Prey in the jungle or heavily wooded areas can just disappear into the underbrush and be gone. It doesn’t matter how far you can walk at that point, because you’ll never find that animal again.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Right. Even with persistence hunting, I doubt our ancestors were going 50+ miles chasing prey.

Kethal ,

The OP article said the same thing, and like this article, it provides no evidence for the statement. I looked for some numbers, and for world bests, men had better performance in every category I found. The study linked below looked at speeds over decades and in every case men had better performance. Both have improved over time, and as a percentage the difference is getting smaller, but in absolute difference it appears the same. It is an admittedly brief search, but I can’t find evidence in the form of measured times (not conjecture about estrogen) indicating at all that women perform better in ultra marathons. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3870311/?utm…

njm1314 ,

How would speed of a marathon show endurance?

ChonkyOwlbear ,

How does it not? Running 26 miles takes endurance and running it fast takes even more endurance.

UraniumBlazer ,

Speed of marathon doesn’t necessarily serve as a benchmark for endurance, does it? Endurance is a metric of how tired you get over time, no? A cheetah can run 1km waaaay faster than a human. Doesn’t mean that it has better endurance than humans.

Anticorp ,

A marathon is a test of endurance. The faster you can complete it, the more endurance you have. Without endurance your body slows to a crawl over the vast distances covered during a marathon. A cheetah sprinting has nothing to do with endurance. They’re terrible endurance runners. Nobody’s saying sprinting speed is a test of endurance, but marathon speed absolutely is.

bjorney ,

What (widely popular) race could possibly be a better metric of endurance than the marathon?

Anticorp ,

An under-15 boy’s soccer team destroyed the US World Women’s Soccer Team. That’s just a random group of boys who aren’t anywhere near their peak, vs literally the best female soccer players in the country. The physical strength, speed, and endurance differences between biological males and females is undeniable. Anyone who says differently is being intellectually and probably emotionally dishonest with themselves. Also, this purported evidence that women were the hunters is a very small sample size out of all of our anthropological evidence. Sure, some women hunted, and some women fought. Some cultures probably demanded that more than others. That doesn’t mean that thousands of years worth of history and assumptions are wrong.

P4ulin_Kbana ,

Can’t believe even history is going WOKE! 😡

/s

LibertyLizard OP ,

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/2a3d24c7-bc77-47c0-b26a-07a93e25d7d6.jpeg

haui_lemmy ,

Using the word woke unironically is one of the best tells that someone is an idiot.

june ,
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

As an insult, yeah, but not if it’s the original context like “stay woke”

sunzu2 ,

Trust me bro

Zipitydew ,

Yeah this article is almost a year old and it got torn up when published last year. People already knew women helped hunt. But acting like that was a primary role without evidence because of modern sports science is silly.

jacksilver ,

I’m also curious about the role pregnancy plays into all of this. Obviously everyone back then would need to help out in any way they could back then, but without contraceptives how frequently would women be pregnant? It seems like that would play the largest contributing factor into roles/responsibilities and the article seems to ignore that issue.

While today you could breastfeed while running a marathon, there wouldn’t be a way to keep the baby close by back then. Additionally, while for the first couple months a pregnancy might not impact your ability to hunt, eventually it certainly would.

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