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scorpionix ,
@scorpionix@feddit.de avatar

Not engineer.

At least here in Germany, engineer is a protected profession. Other than that: All of the above.

Infynis ,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

Interesting. In the US, all kinds of jobs are called engineers

omgitsaheadcrab ,

Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician… etc were all engineers. In Germany it’s as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command

masterspace ,

I mean, it’s a protected term in Canada too but it doesn’t necessarily lead to higher salaries.

My cousin who’s an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.

omgitsaheadcrab ,

I left aeronautical engineering to become a software “engineer” for similar reasons, salary and work culture. Actual engineering pays quite terribly in the UK, it’s a fair bit better in Germany or the US from what I hear.

brbposting ,

US much better than Germany I’ve heard!

emberwit ,

Software yes, actual no

Damage ,

Yeah it’s difficult for me to name my title in English 'cause the word doesn’t exist. I went to a technical high school, not university. (Not college!)

mumblerfish ,

It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying “doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment”. So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say ‘senators’ or something). Extremely class divided social society that.

brbposting ,

Damn I’m surprised to hear that!

FiniteBanjo ,

TBF some plumbers and electricians are qualified engineers, just not all.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

There are a few dick engineers working on the corner. Dickvelopers? Cockologists?

prettybunnys ,

I believe job titles specifically are(were?) considered in exempt / non-exempt status for overtime.

Why Administrator is in a lot of titles also.

Gladaed ,

If you studied a technical science and do coding for that you may be allowed to be called ingenieur.

NotSteve_ ,

It is in Canada too but that doesn’t seem to stop companies from using the term

Kidplayer_666 ,

Here in portugal too. But there is a specific engineering field which is informatic engineering? Software engineer essentially

Jrockwar ,

Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the “software engineer” or more accurately “robotics engineer” badge.

acockworkorange ,

During the 2008 recession, a lot of Uber drivers had engineering degrees. I guess we should start calling Uber drivers engineers too.

Jrockwar ,

No, that’s precisely the opposite of my point. If you drive an Uber, you’re an Uber driver. People are “CEO” or “Judge” despite nobody having a CEO or Judge degree. Your profession is what you do, not what you happened to study in your teens to get there.

acockworkorange ,

I understand your point now and I agree. Your colleagues that studied engineering became programmers. Why do people treat this as if that’s bad? It’s a beautiful profession.

Jrockwar ,

I don’t think it’s bad, in fact I wonder the same. These are my colleagues because it’s the same path I took - I now work developing self-driving cars (I slowly transitioned from aerospace to manufacturing automation to robotics) and it’s the most rewarding job I’ve ever had, and it feels very much like engineering. I don’t care if I’m not a “manufacturing engineer” anymore; I really like my job and I like my title to reflect somewhat accurately what I do, but that’s the extent I care about it.

explodicle ,

How come they don’t count? They’re figuring out how the machines should work, for money. That’s engineering, right? (I’m an American mechanical engineer)

floofloof ,

In Canada you have to be qualified and licensed to call yourself an engineer. There are people who can use the title “software engineer”, but it’s not the majority of people working in development.

astraeus ,
@astraeus@programming.dev avatar

They have to protect German engineering at all costs

rimjob_rainer ,

Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.

emberwit ,

Dann muss man schon auch als solcher tätig sein, sonst nicht.

nickwitha_k ,

Sparkling Technologist.

pwalker ,

That is not entirely true. It’s a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it’s more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is “mainly” of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it’s more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.

SpaceNoodle ,

“Software Development Engineer”

klisurovi4 ,

I am partial to “code monkey”

On a serious note, I usually refer to myself as a developer or a software engineer when I wanna sound a bit more important.

MIDItheKID ,

I put “Chaotic Neutral Technomancer” as my title at work and HR said I had to change it.

orphiebaby ,

Damn that HR!

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

I’m in tech and “computer programmer” has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as “the Nintendo” or “the game station”.

Poutinetown ,

Has there been a programmer for anything other than a computer

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

angry domino logic programmer noises

Poutinetown ,

Do you program domino logic on a electric board or on a computer?

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

youtu.be/OpLU__bhu2w?si=ZXToQKl8SbhZni5O

marcos ,

Yes. And, by the way, “computer” was once the name of a profession, carried out by people.

neuracnu ,
@neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Television programming? It’s a stretch, one might say a broad-casting of the term.

small_crow ,
@small_crow@lemmy.ca avatar

I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).

That was the first time someone didn’t understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.

0x0 ,

That’s funny, plain “programmer” would be my preferred term if it weren’t for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I’ve landed on “software engineer” because that’s what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.

floofloof ,

Here in Canada you can’t call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves “developer”. When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

I was hired with the official title “software engineer,” then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a “SE/DE” (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to “data engineer”. My job functions have not changed the entire time I’ve been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there’s not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.

Feathercrown ,

I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because “It sounds better.” I’d have to say I agree!

odium ,

Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn’t even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.

KISSmyOS ,

My friends call me “Please fix my printer”.

0x0 ,

Digital archæologist. Bitshifter.

pulaskiwasright , (edited )

Everyone who works on making software is a developer, even people who don’t program at all. people who make art for software work in software development. A “coder” only writes code. It’s more of a task than a job. A software engineer does technical design and probably also codes.

Lmaydev ,

The reality is they all mean the same thing and are used interchangeably in different companies.

nickwitha_k ,

I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

LifeOfChance ,

I’m sorry, come again?

nickwitha_k ,

I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

PmMeFrogMemes ,

sounds like a cool job y’all hiring haha jk unless

nickwitha_k ,

Not on my team, unfortunately but, I’ll check. What languages/experience have you got?

PmMeFrogMemes ,

Oh man, I didn’t think that’d work haha… Kind of you to offer but I was recently promoted and wouldn’t feel right leaving now. Partially out of respect for my boss and partially because we are severely understaffed. But seriously, thanks for offering to ask around. Very generous of you to offer your help to a stranger ❤️

nickwitha_k ,

No worries. We’re all in this together <3

Theharpyeagle ,

I’m learning that I’m just enough of a front end dev to make a very ugly site. Navigating all the various CSS and JS frameworks feels like pulling teeth.

nickwitha_k ,

Having a familiarity is absolutely a great thing. The syntax isn’t alien, so, debug and guiding juniors through figuring out why their project isn’t working isn’t too terrible. The typing is probably what drives me crazy the most. It’s just bad and the standard library doesn’t seem to be equipped to handle every type that it can “support” cleanly.

AA5B ,

since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon

Sorry to hear that. I hit the same pothole about 6 months ago. I had been so fine with avoiding JS, but the guys building our admin console broke their build and couldn’t figure out how to fix it. Even worse, then I had to write up best practices for JS

nickwitha_k ,

Yeah. Fortunately, I didn’t have to do the programming. Unfortunately, I had to guide the debug. Happy to help people learn but the language, especially in its typing, is just awful.

Zip2 ,

My boss once referred to me as “code bastard”. I’m keeping it.

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

Scrum Lord has a air of royalty to it aswel

crispy_kilt ,

Serious question, not a native speaker: Why do people in the Anglosphere refer to mostly-software companies as tech companies, or to software developers as tech workers?

Simon ,

Because even in those companies many of the ‘computer people’ are not software developers. Tech workers is a catch all term for most people at those companies.

crispy_kilt ,

But the term isn’t used for technology outside of software companies, for example, mechanical and electrical engineering

Simon ,

There’s tech companies that don’t work with software

crispy_kilt ,

Such as?

Simon ,

Anything hardware related that doesn’t program in-house, by definition.

Nath ,
@Nath@aussie.zone avatar

Tech is short-hand for technology.
So, technology companies and technology workers.

emberwit ,

But the question was why

crispy_kilt ,

Thanks for responding but that wasn’t the question

Machinists / mechanical engineering are technology workers, so are civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc, but only software gets called “tech”

moon ,

MtF Trans

bouh ,

I am an engineer. Most developers aren’t though, unfortunately.

namelivia ,

I just say IT

bitchkat ,

Gross. IT to me is a support role, not the reason for the company’s existence.

DaleGribble88 ,
@DaleGribble88@programming.dev avatar

From someone who transitioned from operations to development over the course of their admittedly short career, this is a poor mindset. Much like how you shouldn’t disrespect a janitor or a nurse, you shouldn’t say “gross” about IT work.
IT may not be the reason for the company’s existence, but it is what allows it. The company may not exist without you, but you don’t exist without IT.

EncryptKeeper ,

Generally speaking software development is not a part of IT.

namelivia ,

I’d say in English there is more of a difference, in my native language the term is more blurry I’d say, for a random person it just sounds as “computers”, and to most people that’s all they care about.

EncryptKeeper ,

In English that more general word for the entire industry is “tech”. Thats the closest comparison to just using the word “computers”.

namelivia ,

Ah true, thank you! Then it is tech what I say

wathek ,

You may call me Computer God. Or God for short if i deem it acceptable.

pythonoob ,

I’m only human, though I am working on that…

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