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Rinna , (edited )
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

So instead of making their games more easily accessible and re-releasing old games, which has been proven to reduce piracy and may even be profitable, they just throw money at a lawsuit attacking an emulator?

dutchkimble ,

Wait, how does that reduce piracy?

Rinna , (edited )
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

Having a good service that’s easily accessible and re-releasing games from older consoles (many of which people have been rallying for) = less of an incentive to pirate them. Obv it will still exist, but it’d be in less of a demand. I almost never pirate PC games since the vast majority of the ones I’m interested in are readily accessible, unless it’s from a shitty AAA company like EA.

EvolvedTurtle ,

I haven’t pirated any of these gams And it’s a little bit off topic But damn I would so buy Mario party or Mario tennis or even arms if it wasn’t $60

Like I think the games are cute But I’d rather buy 3 indie games with way more worth in play time then a $60 tennis simulator that I will drop in a week or a party game that I will only use on the rare occasion I’m hanging out with friends

I’m actually kind of happy that Nintendo is shutting down the Wii U and 3ds eShop because now it feels more ethical to pirate all the small $60 games I wanted to play

Hell id gladly spend $30 on many of these games

Tl;Dr these games are not worth $60 and I’m a little salty about it

veniasilente ,

Ever heard of a small indie company called Valve?

dirtbiker509 ,

Don’t forget good hardware too. The switch is an absolutely terrible hand held device. My hands cramp up nearly instantly trying to play on it.

I have purchased BOTW and TOTK for the switch, but I play them on my steam deck with YUZU Waaaay better experience.

pivot_root , (edited )

Nintendo give an example in their complaint with The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom saying that it was “unlawfully distributed a week and a half before its release by Nintendo” and that copies of it were “successfully downloaded from pirate websites over one million times before the game was published and made available for lawful purchase by Nintendo”.

Back when I was on that shithole other link aggregation website, I said this would happen because people couldn’t wait 7 more days for the public release before bragging about emulating TotK and sharing a clearly-not-legally-dumped ROM around.

I don’t care what people do in their free time as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else negatively, but it was hard not to see this coming because people couldn’t keep their mouths shut and just enjoy the game. Now, we all might lose future updates to Yuzu if they settle or Nintendo wins the suit…

Wilzax ,

Time to clone the repo and start seeding it

jadedwench ,

I started 30 minute backups earlier. It updates from the yuzu repo and downloads all of the releases from yuzu-mainline if there are new ones. Anything else I should also backup?

I wouldn’t have a clue where to put this stuff on the interwebs, but if shit happens, I will be 1 of many backups I guess.

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll hold on to those files for safekeeping for you :)

aniki ,

Forked and cloned locally.

Zedstrian ,

Can’t sell boats anymore, they clearly facilitate piracy at a colossal scale. /s

Cassa ,
@Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

fuck Nintendo and their shitty buisness.

Emulators are not only good for preserving games, they are good for consumers - preserving their acess to games they own.

their “illegal” bullshit is just because they don’t port their games to anything.

Nintendo can eat shit and learn how to port and sell their older titles as well

brax ,

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

Why don’t people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered? Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I’m sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Viking_Hippie ,

Why don’t people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered?

Because gun makers lobbied congress to make it specifically illegal to do so. Even though unscrupulous practices by said gun lobby is responsible for probably hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

They get sued for accidents caused by defects quite often.

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I’m sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Happened with Mega and countless torrent sites so yeah, you’re probably right 😮‍💨

Jako301 ,

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.

Not really. PCs aren’t purpose build to run emulators, these emulators just happen to also work on them.

Emulators on the other hand are purpose build to circumvent anti piracy measures (which is illegal even for your own use), even if piracy may not be their primary intention.

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

Emulators on the other hand are purpose build to circumvent anti piracy measures

No, emulators are purpose built to allow you to play a game on another platform. That’s literally what they’re for.

Whether the game is legally purchased, pirated, shareware or abandonware is completely irrelevant to the purpose and function of an emulator.

Personally I have used emulators to play old Commodore 64/Amiga games from my childhood, ditto DOS games and one of the old Pokémon games to see what the fuss was about.

None of those games were available for purchase anywhere aka it was all abandonware and not piracy. I do my piracy with torrents of games meant for the PC like most people.

Btw, as someone pointed out elsewhere on this post, there’s another good reason to use an emulator even for games available to purchase for the intended system: expensive peripherals that break and can’t be fixed. Unlike some vastly superior ones made for playing on the PC.

0x2d ,

knife manufacturer sued for facilitating murder

Squizzy ,

I’d prefer to use proprietary products but Nintendo have shit business practices and I hate them so Yuzu it is always and forever

jerrythegenius ,
@jerrythegenius@lemmy.world avatar

PSF (Proprietary Software Foundation)

0x2d ,

i prefer to use proprietary products

Squizzy ,

Yeah I would prefer to pay Nintendo for their research development and experience. But it’s all gimmicky shit and poor anti consumer business practices.

Buddahriffic ,

Thanks Nintendo, this shit reminded and motivated me to cancel the auto-renew for my subscription. It is done.

NocturnalMorning ,

Wow, fuck Nintendo. For well over a decade they didn’t give a shit about emulating old games. In fact, it was and is still the only way to play a lot of old games. Now nintendo is trying to use their shit flimsy online emulator as an excuse to claim IP right to 30 year old games they don’t give a shit about. Granted this is about the emulator itself, but doesn’t matter. Guess I won’t be buying the next switch console.

Alto , (edited )
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

There's a fairly big difference between "you're making an emulator for a console we stopped selling anything for a decade ago" and "you are actively cutting into the sales of everything we are currently doing"

Frankly, Im not quite sure what anyone expected. Of course they were going to go after them harder tan usual, especially when they made it pretty obvious they used proprietary code from TOTK. I'm as pro-piracy as they come, but ya still gotta use some of your brain.

E: sp

NocturnalMorning ,

Eh, I don’t really care. Now that every manufacturer and developer under the sun has decided I don’t own the games I buy. I couldn’t care less about their games getting pirated. I mean, I don’t own the game anyway according to their ToS, I just rent it.

But it’s more than that. I can’t even find old game isos easily anymore. Nintendo went out of their way to threaten legal action against sites that had been up for over a decade so they could do their shitty online emulator store.

They’re going after everyone now. I bought my switch in 2016, won’t be buying another one.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

I'm not saying they're right for it, just stating what reality is. Anyone with half a brain knew this was coming the second they used proprietary code.

Sethayy ,

used code from totk? What? They implemented patches early using knowledge from it, but including even a single line from the game would be incredibly stupid and contradictory to having to dump your keys in the first place

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Watching the latest accursed farms video was very eye opening, even services like GOG with no DRM probably still have that legalese where you don’t own the files, but in reality you do since they can’t stop you from playing them, the legal sphere is even more of fantasyland than I thought, it actively denies reality.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

The precedent that almost everyone cites (because it is some of the only) is Sony vs Bleem.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!

Initial release was in 1999 and lawsuits were around the same time. PS2 launched in 2000. So while the bleem marketing was a complete mess, the emulator existing while a console was still “alive” does not matter in the slightest.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

The main point of that ruling was that they weren't using proprietary code. Yuzu almost certainly did after the TOTK leak, unless they magically just happened to improve that much directly afterwards.

I don't like it, but there's a pretty big chance that Yuzu loses this one.

breakingcups ,

That’s not what using proprietary code means in this case.

Besides, it’s possible they “legitimately” bought a copy of the game from a store that accidentally broke the embargo date. You can’t legally blame customers for that.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Yes. I agree and said as much elsewhere in this thread.

My issue was with your statement of

There’s a fairly big difference between “you’re making an emulator for a console we stopped selling anything for a decade ago” and “you are actively cutting into the sales of everything we are currently doing”

Where, no, there is not a difference there.

trafficnab ,

Sega v. Accolade was about using proprietary code, Sega lost and the small snippet of code that was reverse engineered out of the Genesis was deemed fair use because there was no other way to get an unlicensed cartridge to run on the console

Sethayy ,

They didnt use any code from TOTK (such would be piracy); they did however use it to improve the emulator via game specific patches before the release date (hinting some devs got the game less than legally, but not yuzu itself)

veniasilente ,

Nintendon’t: sues for “facilitating piracy”

Also Nintendon’t: facilitates piracy by restricting access to games people want to play

Also Nintendon’t: facilitates piracy by pointing people to Yuzu

Also Nintendon’t: facilitates piracy by hinting that “free” access to games might be at risk

Also Nintendon’t:

rosemash ,

1 step forward, 4 steps back!

SergioFLS ,
@SergioFLS@feddit.cl avatar

i’m afraid that if NoA wins this, console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles, and therefore making them (legally) unemulatable and potentially discouraging development of modern console emulation.

now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i’m not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy…

i also wonder if there’s any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.

mayuraviva ,
@mayuraviva@shelter.moe avatar

@SergioFLS @ardi60
I'm really concerned about the future of digital freedom. All big corporations are doing shit with governments to regulate and control the Internet, just for profits. Consumers and end users are abused, no governments care to preserve our freedom just to preserve the business of these big corporations like Nintendo, Disney, or Apple.
How to be optimistic for the future?

Crikeste ,

“No governments care” is an outright lie. Sure, there’s always more they could do, but the EU is at the forefront of regulating tech. And that’s a big conglomeration of countries and their respective governments.

mayuraviva ,
@mayuraviva@shelter.moe avatar

@Crikeste When it comes to copyright laws, it feels like nothing’s really being done to look out for us, the consumers. Take the EU for example, they’re making YouTube use upload filters with Content ID. And in a lot of places, it’s still against the law to break DRM, even if you’re just making private copies. Honestly, I’m not so sure we can rely on governments to stand up to big corporations on our behalf.
All intellectual property laws should be reworked, but nothing will happen.

Gabu ,

I’m not so sure we can rely on governments to stand up to big corporations on our behalf.

We can, but a lot more flags need to feature a hammer and sickle for that.

Crikeste ,

This, I think, is a problem that is caused by tech illiteracy in governments. I mean shit, even I barely understand the things you brought up, and I’m a millennial. The boomers (mostly) that run governments DEFINITELY don’t understand those things. At least, at the level someone like you may. And that’s a problem that needs to be solved, because ignorant people are easily taken advantage of.

I still believe my point stands, but I absolutely agree with you.

blindsight , (edited )

The Liberal government in Canada just announced “The Online Harms Act”, and a leading Canadian legal scholar/lawyer and information privacy advocate, Michael Geist, says that it’s actually good legislation (for the most part).

So, there’s movement in the right direction in other jurisdictions, too.

(Then again, our Senate is currently working on a bill to require age verification for porn, which we all know won’t work and is a massive potential privacy quagmire.)

Edit: lol, autocorrect “Lobster” instead of “Liberal”.

Crikeste , (edited )

Bro, as a person living in a state that has imposed age verification for porn, it doesn’t work. At fucking ALL. Lmao

Either websites don’t give a fuck (xvideos.com) or they have outright removed themselves from the state (pornhub.com and all it’s sisters).

Not to mention that Twitter is practically a porn browser now.

mindbleach ,

console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles

… start?

nialv7 ,

Well switch already have DRM. Except circumventing DRM for archiving purpose is totally legal. This lawsuit is groundless.

bassomitron ,

Circumventing DRM for archiving is not totally legal in all circumstances: reddit.com/…/us_copyright_office_gives_the_okay_t…

I know, it’s a reddit link, but OP does a good job summarizing and providing sources.

Anyway, videogames are specifically called out. Essentially, if you’re circumventing DRM for emulation for games that are still current and actively supported by their publishers/devs, it is not legal. However, if you’re circumventing DRM to repair/troubleshoot/diagnose your console, that’s kosher (whole right-to-repair stance). So it isn’t completely black and white. Yuzu devs will have a tough case ahead of them depending on what all evidence Nintendo has gathered.

nialv7 ,

Yeah, you are right and I was somewhat misinformed.

That been said, yuzu isn’t the one doing circumventing is it? It doesn’t provide tools for dumping games or anything. It’s just an emulator.

bassomitron ,

Correct, but we don’t know what all has taken place over the years regarding Discord chats, forum posts, etc. where one of the devs might have accidentally incriminated themselves/the project. That’s what I meant by it depends what kind of evidence Nintendo has gathered. I’m assuming there’s a reason Nintendo waited as long as they have to go after them, seeing as Yuzu has been quite famous for a long time and it seems as of they’re not also going after Ryujinx (or maybe they’re not just yet?).

Draconic_NEO ,

console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles

You been living under a rock bud? That’s literally the idea of a game console, it’s ultimately what separates console gaming from PC gaming.

now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i’m not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy…

They literally sabotage their emulator so it can’t play certain games in case of leaks, they’re well past that point.

i also wonder if there’s any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.

Could develop the emulators from a country that doesn’t respect intellectual property rights, it works well enough for Empress, obviously it would absolutely not work out for her if she tried to do what she does in America.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

brb downloading Yuzu repo

EvolvedTurtle ,

I litterly saw this and proceeded to download yuza

I don’t even want to play any games on it right now I just did it as a middle finger to Nintendo

Facebones ,

Same

funkyfarmington ,

I did not know this, I will now go see if there is anything worth playing.

filcuk ,

Good advertising! I just hope the dev gets out of this without consequences and the project lives on.

dangblingus ,

FWIW, the Switch is a fucking amazing console. Don’t let the “but it isn’t as powerful as my PS5” bros convince you otherwise. There are top notch games on Switch.

derpgon ,

There are, that’s why I am not buying another Switch (my last one bricked itself, lost all my saves), and rather using the Steam Deck

Sgagvefey ,

There are some, absolutely. Strategy, jrpg, and 2D stuff especially.

For 3D games with 3D physics, the lack of power is almost always a clear limitation, though. That CPU sucks ass.

ILikeBoobies ,

You will like Mario + Rabbids

PotatoKat ,

Mario + rabbids, pokemon legends, zelda:BOTW/TOTK (pick one they’re both pretty similar and have their pros/cons), Mario Wonder, Mario Odyssey, Pikmin 4, Cadence of Hyrule (zelda spin-off of crypt of the necrodancer), zelda:links awakening remake, Mario rpg remake, and Bayonetta 2 (can also play on wii u emulator, 3 isn’t as good)

Facebones ,

TOTK if you were really into nuts and bolts. Otherwise BOTW. 😛

ShadowCat ,

I’ve been playing Mario Wonder and Mario RPG both are great and run very well. I tried BOTW but I think the framerate was capped at 30 and I couldn’t figure out how to increase it

PotatoKat ,

You need a 60fps patch for botw

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