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blazera ,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

They dont want to be inconvenienced by their religion.

Smokeydope ,
@Smokeydope@lemmy.world avatar

Hypocritical self interest I think. Many people who claim to be Christians don’t understand or care about the teachings of Christ. Religion is used by these people more as a social boon than a means of philosophical/spiritual teachings.

Check out this comic strip ‘the gospel of supply side Jesus’ to understand the version of Christ they truly worship

imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp

jungekatz ,

Just read a news that evangelicals called christs teachings as weak !

xuxebiko ,

If Jesus returned, they'd lynch him.

cogman ,

Behind the bastards did a 2 part podcast on this

[Behind the Bastards] Part One: How The Rich Ate Christianity 🅴 podcastaddict.com/…/137287957 via @PodcastAddict

chtbl.com/track/5899E/podtrac.com/…/audio.mp3?utm…

WtfEvenIsExistence ,

Because communism bad mkay? These god-hating commies trying to take away our religious freedumz. Don’t you know there’s only 2 ecomonic systems in the world? It’s Capitalism vs Communism and communism bad because authoritarianism. There’s totally no possible mixed economy compromises like that those idiots tried in Norway where a democracy still exists.

Nemo ,

Two reasons:

In the 70’s and 80’s in the US, the economic right wing formed an alliance of convenience with religious social conservatives (notably not Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, and other non-Protestant sects) to seek polit8cal power.

Second, Christianity holds that humans tend to be sinful and selfish, and thus utopian schemes that rely on participants to be unselfish and egalitarian are doomed at scale, becoming instead forces of oppression.

Throw in Communism’s historical opposition to religion as icing on the cake.

vlad76 ,
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

This isn’t how it is. But it’s how they see it. Again, this is from their point of view. Or at least, it’s what I heard from them.

Capitalism is about self reliance, “pulling yourself up by bootstraps”, getting out there and making your own way with no higher power (as in humans) standing in your way. They see socialism as a government forcing people to give up their own hard earned gains to give to others. The difference with Christianity is because God is telling them to do it. If God tells you to go feed the poor, then it’s OK. If you choose to do it yourself, then it’s also fine. If the government wants to do it without promoting their religion, then it’s bad. Because you’re not doing it for God.

kibiz0r ,

Basically… because of slavery.

If you take a look at an indigenous population and decide that both:

  1. They are lazy, because their labor only produces subsistence and isn’t captured as surplus value stored in currency
  2. Their laziness is a moral failing which will doom them to eternal suffering

…then you have now put yourself in a mental model where you have a moral duty to force that person to work for (your) profit instead of subsistence, in order to save their soul.

If you have a whole country that thinks this way, they will try to enslave the whole world and feel good about doing so.

So in a Darwinian way, that mentality is the most “fit”. It’s very uhhh “successful”. And so it propagates.

Blamemeta ,

Actual conservative here.

Not all progress is good. Its best made in measured doses.

Life is good. Sure there are problems, but they can be solved without completely changing the system. Better laws and regulations, going after those abusing the system, that sort if thing.

Also the only alternative presented is communism. And historcally, whats been advertised as communism has lead to a 100 million deaths, the oppression of everyone else involved, and generally bad shit. (No, Im not arguing about what is true communism)

counselwolf ,

What do you mean by “the only alternative presented is communism”?

Can you give examples of that, I’m interested to hear your thoughts.

Blamemeta , (edited )

What other alternatives are given? Monarchy? I jest a bit, but capitalism works really well, just needs a little effort to keep assholes from going full 1890s coal town.

ren , (edited )
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

Not sure if you are being serious. There are levels of socialism and social safety networks that still allow democracy and even capitalism. It’s regulated heavily, wealth is limited, and resources are shared to those who need it.

Bible Jesus fought systemic poverty & for the shunned in society, made it very clear how he felt about the rich & powerful.

It’s mind-boggling to consider neoliberal christianity. It literally goes against everything your god/god’s son fought for… I don’t understand how christians aren’t leading the fight against wealth inequality, systemic poverty, and improved social systems.

“How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’”

Jesus was a socialist.

Blamemeta ,

I think a lot of it comes from a distrust of the government, and an understanding that charity is voluntary. In socialism, its not. Doesn’t really count for much if its done at gun point.

I know its kinda late to say this, but disclaimer that I do not know every single person, and my perspective is limited.

ren ,
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

why do you keep saying “at gun point”. It’s everyone paying a their taxes then the that money being used to help the poor and needy.

people don’t give to charity volunteerly enough, wealth inequality has only made the rich richer while 40% of Americans are either poor or on the verge of poor.

why aren’t christians demanding more social services, more support, less wealth inequality?

there’s not “gun points”, well except for the gun-loving christians who you better not touch their giant fucking truck.

Blamemeta ,

Taxes are done at gun point. If you don’t pay them, an armed man shows up at your door.

ren ,
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

nope.

first they penalize you, then they freeze your accounts, garnish wages, etc. the IRS will not send you to jail.

You only go to jail if you commit tax evasion or fraud. Which, btw, isn’t very christian.

ren ,
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

WWJD?

Jesus was a socialist.

Blamemeta ,

Socialism is charity at gun point, otherwise known as theft. Jesus was about voluntairly giving, because he understands consent.

AllonzeeLV ,

He also said people who don’t choose to do so and hoard more wealth than they need are going to hell sure as shit not heaven.

It’s a shame it’s all fiction and no one’s going anywhere except the ground or an oven.

Blamemeta ,

But its still up to the person. They’re allowed to make that choice.

AllonzeeLV ,

Technically if they believe in a Judeo-Christian God, they believe that God knew what their choice would be before they were even created, otherwise God wouldn’t be omniscient, which nullfies the idea of free will, as it was God’s choice to make a being God knew would make decisions that led them to hell and made them anyway.

Blamemeta ,

Im not really looking to get into high minded debate about free will and god

AllonzeeLV ,

Then stop professing expertise on the Christian God’s economic preferences.

TheActualDevil ,

You’re allowed not to pay your taxes to fund socialist programs. There is a consequence of jail, but you have that choice. How is it different?

itsAsin ,
@itsAsin@lemmy.ml avatar

off-topic. nowhere in your reply have you spoken about christianity.

nednobbins ,

I’d start by narrowing the scope of this question to conservative Christians in the US and Europe. India has a larger population that the US and the EU combined, is quite religiously conservative and leans socialist. Even though the Catholic Church issued a “Decree Against Communism” in 1949, that has since been amended and many Catholics around the world embrace socialism. While modern Muslims do participate in market economies, Islam has some fairly strict laws against capitalism; Sukuk is the complex workaround they use in order to get against their prohibition against charging interest.

For Christians in the US and Europe I think there are a few major components.

Christianity has had strong capitalist elements for a long time. In particular, John Calvin argued, among other things, that God rewards good Christians in this life as well as the next. These rewards can take the form of material wealth and therefore material wealth is evidence of God’s favor. This philosophy was obviously extremely popular among the wealthy.

After WWII the US government wanted a way to convince people that our erstwhile allies, the USSR and China should now be considered enemies. One obvious element to emphasize was that they were both Communists. An element of Communism was godlessness, “Religion is the opiate of the masses.” So the US took the contrary stance and presented itself as a Christian nation. Two of the more obvious results were that “under God” was added to the pledge of allegiance and Congress replaced the unofficial “E Pluribus unum” (out of many, one) with, “In God we trust.” Since it was primarily intended to be anti-communist it was, effectively, pro-capitalist.

In the US there was also a deliberate shift when George HW Bush realized that evangelical Christians made up a large part of the Republican base. At the time churches had a fairly strong aversion to politics. They generally considered politics and economics to be part of the profane world and thought it was beneath them. He managed to convince them that the profane wasn’t just irrelevant to spiritual health, it was an active threat. By this view, good Christians couldn’t ignore politics they had to take an active role to help fight Satan. Since the Republicans were the ones actively recruiting Evangelicals into politics they made sure the message stayed supportive of their policies (including economic policies).

Adderbox76 ,

Because they’re generally religious in name only. To them, religion is a tool to be used to get ahead. Networking through your church, appealing to other religious people in order to get votes, etc… etc…

AttackBunny ,
@AttackBunny@kbin.social avatar

@jungekatz all the other answers are far more nuanced, and explain a lot more detail, but the most simple answers to your question are 1. Propaganda and 2. Herd mentality/echo chamber thinking.

Copernican ,

Max Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism” goes into how protestantism cradled capitalist growth. But I think it’s a bit heavy handed to say folks support capitalist ideology. You don’t really support ideology. The ideology is what supports capitalism or is capitalism itself. But Protestantism is generally has individualistic beliefs. No longer does the clergy intermediate relation to God. Protestants believe individuals have a personal and individual relation to god. This sense of individualism can overlap with capitalist mentalities of individual success and profit.

But I think your use of ideology is too vague and understanding of religion is too generalized. You really need to talk about particulars of specific religious beliefs and particulars of specific attitudes towards capitalism. There’s not much to really comment on with such broad and vague brushstrokes.

quadropiss ,

Plain brainwashing. They’re used to being coerced into believing stuff by fear mongering

SharkEatingBreakfast ,
@SharkEatingBreakfast@sh.itjust.works avatar

Success = hard work.

Hard work = not lazy.

Not lazy = good.

Rich / successful people = good people (unless they’re involved in godless entertainment, of course)

Not successful = not working hard enough.

Not working hard enough = lazy.

Lazy = bad.

Poor / unsuccessful people = bad people

They do not think hard enough to see nuance. They just don’t.

An old friend of mine once ranted to me about how poor women will keep popping out babies to get free government money & food. Like… bitch, do you know how actually difficult it is to get “”“free money”“” from the government? Are you seriously mad that children are being fed? Do you think that poor people fund their “lavish lifestyles” off government funds? BITCH, POOR PEOPLE DON’T DO THAT!!! RICH PEOPLE DO!!!

Zyansheep ,

Does anyone else see “removed” in this comment? Is the instance editing comments to censor certain words or is it just the user?

SharkEatingBreakfast ,
@SharkEatingBreakfast@sh.itjust.works avatar

Is the entire comment removed or just certain words?

I did use the word “b×tch” in there a couple times.

VulKendov ,
@VulKendov@reddthat.com avatar

I don’t see anything removed. All your bitches are in there, as far as I can tell.

stringere ,

Hey, don’t [removed] us! We’re just having a bitch session. That’s what you call it when discussing bitches, right?

SharkEatingBreakfast ,
@SharkEatingBreakfast@sh.itjust.works avatar

Thank god my bitches are safe.

lukzak ,
@lukzak@lemmy.ml avatar

The puritans at lemmy.ml censor “word-for-female-dog-beginning-with-B”. All comments that you see as a member of that instance are censored before being shown to you.

spikespaz ,

Are you serious? That’s actually egregious.

lukzak ,
@lukzak@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah. Lookup this thread on lemmy.ml and you’ll see how all the B-bombs are censored. Also, I believe that when a lemmy.ml user uses that word, it is blocked for all viewers on other instances. Because it is censored before being shared to other federated instances.

Thorny_Thicket , (edited )

When people say they don’t support capitalism then what is the system you see as a more viable alternative?

Edit: Imagine being downvoted for asking a question

ProdigalFrog , (edited )

Socialism.

Check out how the Anarchists structured their society in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War. George Orwell fought alongside them and wrote a book about it called Homage To Catalonia, where he describes how utopian it was while it existed. It also deeply soured him on communism, because he saw how the communists betrayed the anarchists during the war and how authoritarian they were compared to the left libertarian anarchists, which likely influenced him when writing Animal Farm.

The war was one of the defining events of his political outlook and a significant part of what led him to write in 1946, “Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

legion ,
@legion@lemmy.world avatar

Plenty of people who are critical of capitalism aren’t necessarily advocating for an entirely different system. Rather, they’re advocating for dealing with the problems of capitalism head-on, rather than pretending that they don’t exist and allowing them to become worse.

bigschnitz ,

Socialism is defined by the elimination of the purely capitalist class, wherin workers own the means of production.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that capital isn’t assigned for investment based upon market demand or that “EvEryoNe gEts pAId tHE SAmE” like others claim. Socialism in a modern economy can (and likely would be) market based, it just means that shareholders would be entirely made up of employees of a company (obviously this would lead to better conditions for workers, lower wages for executives and no dividend payments to people who aren’t working). Taking a more academic definition of capitalism, it’s entirely possible to be both socialist and capitalist. Few people are arguing against capitalism in entirety.

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