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Knife vs. Gun Control?

Why are knife control laws so strong in the United States as opposed to gun control?

I was realizing it would be nice to have a knife with auto opening for boxes, etc., basically a switch blade or similar, and I found out that they are super illegal in my state (and/or there are length restrictions, or both sides of the blade can’t be sharp, etc), but I can go into a sporting goods store and buy a pistol and ammo in under 30min.

Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient. What is up with restrictive knife-control laws??

rhythmisaprancer ,
@rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

I suspect it is because knives are not included in the second amendment of the constitution. That is a pretty easy argument for people to use against gun regulation (whether or fair or not), but there is no such thing for knives.

WoahWoah OP ,

Knives are included in “arms.” In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled in Heller that the term “arms” has the same meaning as it did in the 18th century and includes anything that can be used for defense, carried for offensive or defensive action, or used to strike another person.

radix ,
@radix@lemmy.world avatar

Laws on the books generally don’t get overturned unless they are specifically mentioned in a court ruling, or there is some action by a legislative body. If you want to be able to buy/sell switchblades, you could challenge the law and see where it goes. But apparently nobody has bothered to take it to court.

rhythmisaprancer ,
@rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

Wow, thanks for sharing that! So much for my thought.... It makes yours more poignant though. Perhaps it is just a matter of obsession? Are the folks who obsess over firearms different than the folks who obsess over knives?

WoahWoah OP ,

I would say so, though while looking at reviews for a new pocket knife, I realized there’s a lot of obsessed people who, like gun people, think owning knives is a personality.

SomeAmateur ,

I guess knives aren’t socially seen as defensive arms even if legally they are

morphballganon ,

You don’t need a switchblade to open boxes. A box cutter (hence the name) works just fine.

If you think box cutters are too blue-collar, get a multitool with a knife on it (a “pocketknife” with other gizmos).

WoahWoah OP ,

A steak knife works fine too. So would the end of an axe, or the tip of a freshly cut key. That isn’t the point. But surely you know that…?

morphballganon ,

If your goal was to open boxes, then it was the point. If you’re saying my comment was not to the point, then your question about opening boxes was disingenuous. But surely you know that…?

You don’t need a blade specifically designed for stabbing to open boxes.

WoahWoah OP , (edited )

If you’re not being purposefully obtuse, then let me clarify: I said boxes “etc,” but the question is clearly about laws and regulation around knives vs. Guns, as indicated by the title, not about how to open boxes.

The idea that an easy-to-open knife is “specifically designed for stabbing” is idiotic, but I guess that type of ignorant reasoning unintentionally addresses the actual question about why these absurd knife laws exist.

Also, for future reference, you can usually spot the questions by the sentences that are followed by a question mark.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

They aren’t: This is 100% state dependent. Some states have extremely permissive laws allowing you to carry anything from a switchblade to a greatsword if you want.

WoahWoah OP , (edited )

Yes, and gun laws are state dependent as well. I’m not talking about federal law (though technically the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 is still in force), I’m saying that arguably the majority of states in the United States have more permissive gun laws than knife laws, and it’s absurd.

Reverendender ,
@Reverendender@lemmy.world avatar

You definitely need to start shooting open your Amazon boxes

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Not when he/she is buying dynamite though.

lord_ryvan ,

Do it. For legal change.

corsicanguppy ,

Heck, do it for science.

Geek_King ,

When a moral panic happens, a lot of things get blown out of proportion. A good example was the panic relating to D&D and satanism. There was a huge panic sometime in the 50s or 60s about the police dealing with young thugs with concealed switch blades, which could be hidden, and then deployed one handed so fast a cop couldn’t draw his weapon fast enough. So this panic got a lot of laws drawn up to ban any switch blade.

Since then, the there are knives that skirt the law by not having a spring which force the blade open, instead a tension bar. There are still types are illegal to carry if a Cop would find out you have it, like “Out the front” switch knives.

The stupid part is, there are plenty of “one hand deployable” knives on the market that are 100% legal. But the laws never get revisited. In my state it’s illegal to have a out the front switch blade, yet a bunch of high end OTF knives are for sale at a sporting store. They just post a sign that says “Know your local laws”, which some how makes it okay to sell.

If anyone has more to add, or corrects, let me know.

WoahWoah OP ,

Seems correct to me. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

SomeAmateur ,

It also goes to show how laws made during the moral panic don’t go away even decades after that panic fades.

This is often in mind when responsible gun owners are critical of more gun laws. The govt won’t go “that was silly of us here’s your bit of freedom back” even if a law objectively had zero positive effect

thurstylark ,

The arbitrarity of some states’ knife laws is also a problem. I don’t remember which state (OK pre ~2015 law updates perhaps?), but I read about one that had few carry restrictions below a certain blade size (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 inches, IIRC), and if you’re caught carrying one over the limit, you basically have to give a specific purpose for having it. Assuming your case goes to trial, this means it’s more or less up to the judge to determine if your use was valid, which is juuuuuuuussst flexible enough to persecute the “right” people. (assuming I’m remembering correctly that this was in Oklahoma, that would be Native Americans)

Switching gears; Some More News had a pretty comprehensive video about moral panics, which also includes some history on switchblades in particular, for those interested.

WoahWoah OP ,

I think it’s 1.5 inches in Connecticut. Lol

Sequentialsilence ,

The US has strong knife laws? I carry a knife almost everyday and this is the first I’m hearing of this. The only time I can’t take my knife somewhere is if no weapons at all are allowed there, like government buildings.

WoahWoah OP , (edited )

What state do you live in? You might be surprised to find you are technically breaking the law. Or you’re just carrying a simple little folding knife.

Sequentialsilence ,

I went looking at every state I’ve lived in and the one with the most restrictions was Texas, obviously states like New York or California will be more restrictive, but the only real restrictions that I found outside of new england / California, were switchblades or “automatic opening knives”, and carrying in locations like schools and government buildings, which I expected. I used to carry a 8” hunting knife (13” overall) when I did a bunch of outdoor work, now I carry a smaller 3” folding pocketknife (6” overall).

WoahWoah OP ,

Did you look at the length restrictions in Connecticut? 🤣

Death_Equity ,

I’m my state there are restrictions, but they are pretty much accessory charges that you won’t get unless you are a dipshit. You do have to have a firearms permit to carry an automatic knife though, I am not aware of anybody getting charged with that and that alone.

What is funny is you can have a ka-bar on your belt not concealed and be fine, but you aren’t suppose to carry a pocketknife with a blade over 3.5". Also if the fixed blade knife is sharpened on both sides of the blade, that is a no-no, but if it folds it is fine. I think they just removed the ban on butterfly knifes or it has the firearms permit exemption now, but I would have to check to confirm.

As you can imagine, the gun laws make about as much sense and don’t do much to help the problem of violence.

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

It depends on the state, my state has almost no knife laws, but in New York (for example) nearly all folding knives are technically considered illegal gravity knives. Basically if you open a knife 99% of the way, and are able to flick it the remaining 1% open it’s considered an illegal gravity knife.

It’s pretty dumb.

WoahWoah OP ,

Not anymore in NY, but yeah.

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

Oh, good to hear they repealed that law.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Because knife doesn’t have NKA to lobby for it.

SomeAmateur ,

I wouldn’t mind if they did honestly

wildbus8979 ,

The corrolary is that there’s essentially no knife control in Canada. There’s no length limit or anything. The law just states that you can’t carry a weapon. But if you have a reasonable reason to be carrying a machete (like going bushwacking) you’re good.

JeromeVancouver ,

I think switch blades are illegal in Canada too, but I could be wrong

lord_ryvan ,

I mean, those are reasonably weapons, no?

wildbus8979 ,

Yeah you’re right, that is one limitation. The rational is that it has no purpose other than being a weapon.

WoahWoah OP ,

I think the difference between “assisted open,” which is almost always legal, and “automatic open” (e.g., switch blades") is very minor. They are both just ways of freeing and locking the blade for use. I don’t think either of them implies they will be used as a weapon. I would guess the laws are just stupid and, as another user pointed out, related to a historical “moral panic.”

Damned greasers and their switchblades and leather jackets. When you’re a Jet, you’re a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your last dying day!

wildbus8979 ,

Fair

adespoton ,

There are also length laws and switch laws. I know, because I once had a hunting knife that was slightly over the length limit. The RCMP insisted I grind it down and submit it for inspection.

However, such restrictions are use-based; you can have a set of steak knives that are over the limit, because their intended use is obviously not against humans. But if someone pulls a steak knife on someone in public, they’ll run afoul of the knife laws.

I once sat on a jury for an attempted manslaughter knifing that took place in a kitchen with a steak knife, where both participants were drunk at the time; lots of interesting arguments were made by both sides.

wildbus8979 ,

Unless there’s some provincial law, RCMP was fucking with you. There is no length law.

What is the maximum blades size one is allowed to carry in Canada?

There is no specific blade size restriction for carry in Canadian law. However, the larger the size of the blade, the more difficult it would be to identify it as a tool for everyday use. For example; if you are hunting, then a large fixed blade knife on your side is generally acceptable. However, carrying the same large fixed blade knife on your side while walking downtown in a major city would be a different matter. If you have specific questions, please contact your local law enforcement agency

bladescanada.com/FAQ-Frequently-Asked-Questions

The only reference to knives in the criminal code concerns so called automatic knives:

laws.justice.gc.ca/Search/Search.aspx?txtS3archA1…

There is no law banning the carrying in public knives with sheaths, knives that take both hands to open and any knife with a fixed blade and certain non-prohibited folding knives, assuming they are not carried for a purpose dangerous to public peace or for the purpose of committing a criminal offense.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#Canada

What Size Knife Is Legal To Carry In Canada?

In Canada there’s no specified blade length that makes it legal or not. The knife’s legality is determined by the purpose of carrying the knife and its design.

staysafevancouver.com/…/can-i-carry-a-knife-in-ca…

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