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Massive issues with sleep and desperate for a solution.

I’ve been struggling with sleep issues for over a decade now. My Doctor has prescribed me all sorts of medication, all of which has had many adverse side effects. What I do know that works, is Xanax. My wife was prescribed it for some stress issues and occasionally will give me one so I can finally sleep. Obviously asking my Doctor, “can I have Xanax” Will not go well. I’ve eluded to it in ways and the response has always been along the lines of “that’s habit forming, I’d rather you try this”. Of the many medications prescribed, none have worked. Resorting to the dark web is something I’d really rather not do. Fentanyl laced drugs took my sister and it’s a road I hope to not have to explore. Any suggestions?

AwkwardTurtle ,

I have really terrible insomnia too. Then I tried my friends Pregabalin, and oh boy. Never had such a restful sleep.

It is a bit habit forming, but if you keep it to just before bedtime it’s a wonderful sleep aid, and much less risky than Xanax.

It’s not without its risks of course, and some people are better with it than others, but might be worth asking your doctor about. They prescribe it for almost anything where I’m from.

mrbaby , (edited )

Pregabalin actually has the opposite effect on me, it wakes me up so I take it in the morning. It also gives me some pretty bad withdrawals if I miss a dose by more than 24hrs. I’m only on 400mg and it’s one of the few drugs I’ve been on that actually help with my depression, so not bashing it, just sharing my experience. :)

eta: it’s been a long time since I’ve tried taking it at night, I’m going to try it again and report back. Maybe I’ve been missing out on a cure to my whack ass sleep this whole time

update: nah it actually didn’t make much of a difference for better or worse. I’m glad it helps for some people though!

AwkwardTurtle ,

That’s fair, I have also heard that effect happens to some people. I should also mention when I used it for sleep I tried to use it very sparingly, and never try to exceed much higher than 150mg for sleep. Otherwise higher doses get too groovy for me haha

Septimaeus ,

Go camping together. Nothing fancy, just a weekend at a park with a small tent and backpacks.

Let your team know you’ll be unreachable. Once there, phones off. No working. Just walk and talk, rest and eat, explore your surroundings, focus on what and who is in front of you.

You may not sleep well on night 1, but you will on night 2, especially if you covered some ground that day. The morning after night 3, however, will be the most well-rested you’ve felt in a some time. The effect carries to subsequent nights, then eventually wears off, but can give you the chance to restructure your days for better sleep in the long term. Use as needed.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve been meaning to go to Yosemite and see the redwoods, maybe it’s time for a road trip!

Apytele ,

Yeah Xanax is literally the worst thing possible for this, especially as a frequent thing. It’ll significantly worsen your sleep quality in the long run. (Hi I’m a psych nurse and I meet a lot of people stuck in insomnia hell because they’ve been slapping a Xanax bandaid on it for a few years while it just continued to devolve and now they’re basically psychotic because they never actually fixed the root issue.

I’m also hearing a lot from you about medications and next to nothing about any lifestyle changes. No medication will ever actually fix this kind of problem. Medications just give you a leg up on fixing yourself.

First of all what stimulants do you use, especially caffeine and nicotine? (I would also hope you already know to avoid meth and cocaine and not take stimulant ADHD meds at bedtime.) Are you avoiding them in the last 6 hours before bed? A lot of people (especially with ADHD) will say stimulants calm them down but what they’re actually feeling is a change from their baseline restless anxious awake to a focused, productive awake. The second one feels more settled, and can actually help you fall asleep briefly if the specific problem is difficulty holding still long enough to sleep, but it’s going to completely fuck up your circadian rhythm in the long run.

Speaking of circadian rhythms, are you trying to keep your body in a steady daily routine? This includes a consistent bedtime, but your mealtimes and daily physical activity are part of your circadian rhythms too. There’s a lot of different schools of thought on how to time meals and exercise to best support sleep, but the general consensus is just don’t do either right before bed. I would also recommend adding a structured “wind-down” period to your nightly routine that takes 15-30 minutes where you do one of like three basic things:

  • something mind-numbingly boring
  • something you’ve always found soothing/comforting
  • Journaling about the day to give your brain a head start on the memory processing it’s about to do.

It’s also very helpful to create full sensory environments that you use to trigger pavlovian responses. You know how pavlov’s dog drools when the bell rings because it’s used to food showing up when the bell rings? The biggest difference between you and a dog is that you get to decide what you want to be trained to do. The downside to this is that it can take a while to train these responses into your body, so be patient and don’t just give up after like a week. So you’ll want to create at least two full and distinct sensory environments. The specifics don’t matter as much as creating a consistent routine for yourself, but here’s some examples of things I’ve tried or seen people try:

Alert

  • Sight: Curtains open / sunlight / full spectrum white light is the input that aligns most closely with most people’s existing natural rhythm.
  • Sound: Music, white noise of people talking in the background.
  • Smell: Essential oils are actually really good for training pavlovian responses in yourself because of how powerful scent memory is. A lot of people like to incorporate citrus-y smells for alertness, but personally I actually really enjoy just keeping my used coffee grounds from the morning in a cup on my desk. That also brings us to the next one…
  • Taste: Coffee has a pretty distinct taste that most people associate with alertness, and you can get a similar taste from chicory root and/or decaf coffee, but one real cup right after waking up shouldn’t mess you up too bad. Chewing gum is also an option, however.
  • Touch: The big one for me doing classes from home during COVID was still getting up and putting on “outside clothes” even if I was just sitting at the computer at home.

Rest

  • Sight: usually red-yellow spectrum light, and much lower brightness around bedtime. You can turn on a red-shift filter for most electronic devices these days, and LED bulbs also often come in a yellow-orange incandescent style color (and a lot of hobby/makeup lights have multiple color settings for this reason as well, white for when you’re working, orange/yellow for resting/relaxing.
  • Sound: some people listen to soothing music, I conditioned myself to fall asleep to the sound of a raging thunderstorm because I sleep during the day and work at night, and the thunderstorm sounds easily block out daytime noises.
  • Smell: Lots of options here too for essential oils or other scented products. You could also use a specific lotion or wash your sheets in a specific scented detergent. A lot of people say they find lavender scents to be particularly soothing, but again, the exact sensory trigger isn’t important as much as you picking one to use consistently.
  • Taste: Herbal tea is my biggest recommendation here, but you could also go with a small snack/sweet as part of your nightly routine.
  • Touch: We already covered wearing different clothes, but some additional options include a weighted blanket or one of those compression sleep pods (I just got one to try out recently and like it so far!)

Anyway like I said, these can take a while to train your body to do, so pick things that will be easy for you to do, set up your space to make it as easy as possible to keep doing them, and keep at it. The most important thing is consistency and routine.

MrZee ,

Wow. I just want to say thank you for such a thoughtful, informed, detailed response. You are an amazing person!

Apytele ,

Ty! Sometimes it’s nice to give you guys tips because my patients usually just start swearing at me at the suggestion that they may have caused at least some of their own problems.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks so much for all this. I only intake caffeine, marijuana and alcohol. Going to start weening myself off coffee for sure and I’m always trying to minimize the other two. Going to spend some months this summer relearning how to live.

Apytele ,

I’m glad to hear that but how much alcohol? If you’re maintaining a constant blood alcohol level and get the shakes when you try to quit you should go to the hospital/ER and have them help you withdraw because those shakes can eventually turn into full blown seizures.

OhmsLawn ,

Alcohol used to wreck my sleep. I’d come home, dog-tired at 7 PM, have a few (and a few more) drinks, look up and 6 hours had passed.

I ended up burning out, and having to quit both booze and weed. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Along with all the obvious health, psychological and financial benefits, I sleep amazingly well now.

Wanderer ,

Don’t know if you tried this. The only thing that stops me from sleeping is my own brain

Military sleep method

dependencyinjection ,

I don’t have an answer and it may not apply to you but Benzos like Xanax are dangerous man.

Like it was nearly the end of me, yet I still get nostalgic for them. Be careful is alls I’m saying.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

I hear you. I have addictive tendencies so it probably would backfire.

dependencyinjection ,

Honestly if this helps I was wasted on Xans one night and ended up falling in a canal alone and was terrified.

I threw away my stash, not knowing you should taper and can die just stopping.

What proceeded was a week of me lay in bed unable to eat but starving, twitching like a crack head at any movement, insomnia, shaking, sweats like nothing else, panic attacks and just generally wanting to die.

As I said before they feel that good that I would probably have been back on them if I didn’t stop going on the DarkWeb and falling out the loop with marketplaces.

I know it must be hard with your sleep issues, even more so as doctors are not keen on prescribing sleeping tablets due to the addictive nature of them, but I do hope you find a solution that works.

Finally I hope you don’t think I am lecturing you, just really wanted to stress how hard benzos are.

That said if a doctor prescribed them to you then they would manage any tapering off when it was time to come off them.

Good luck.

HappyRedditRefugee ,

Op, I have been suffering from sleep issues for years, what I found it works:

  1. Sleep/Awake (roughtly) at the same time every day
  2. No alcohol
  3. No Caffeine after 15:00
  4. Weed (if you don’t want/can getting high, CBD is legal almost everywhere, but tbh CBD does nothing for me
  5. Melotonin (otc, helps sleep, not adictive)
  6. Sports
Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for the advice!

alphacyberranger ,
@alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works avatar

Sometimes when I’m sleepless for few nights, what I do is workout, try my finish my work for the next day and get myself really tired. Also try to calm your mind before going to sleep, too many thoughts can keep your brain active. Also try changes mattress, blankets and pillows ( the shape matters as well as the material ).

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to learn how to calm my mind. Going to take a meditation class or something along those lines.

alphacyberranger ,
@alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works avatar

Music also helps me. Try Lo-fi music. Use any music player app with a timer. A good pillow was a game changer as well.

pastabatman , (edited )

So I have some experience with this and have a few things I want to tell you:

Consider a dedicated sleep study. If you have sleep apnea, medication will not fix your problem and some medications may actually make it worse.

Xanax (an anxiety medication) and Ambien (a sleep medication) are very similar drugs with respect to their mechanism of action. Xanax binds to a specific group of receptors to cause anxiolytic effects and happens to also make you sleepy. Ambien binds to a subset of those same receptors to make you sleepy, but don’t have the strong anxiety reducing effect. If Xanax works for you, Ambien should theoretically have a similar effect. In practice, it doesn’t tend to work as well because anxiety can keep you awake. If that has been your experience with Ambien, think about taking some steps to address anxiety even if you don’t think it’s that bad. Yoga, counseling, meditation, whatever. There are also guided breathing audio sessions designed to put you to sleep in apps like Fitbit and calm that may be helpful.

You can also supplement a prescription sleep aid with something non prescription, which is what I do. I take Ambien, and to keep my dose low I supplement with melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian root when I need an extra kick into sleepiness. I’ve heard CBD is also quite effective for this. Magnesium reportedly also helps with restful sleep, but get a sleep formulation because magnesium in the wrong form causes diarrhea.

Don’t underestimate sleep hygiene. For a long time I had the attitude of “I have real sleep problems, basic stuff like cutting back caffeine is not going to help.” The thing is, when taken together, that kind of stuff actually can help tremendously. I scheduled a month where I went hardcore on sleep hygiene. Strict caffeine limits, no late caffeine or exercise, don’t do anything on your bed but sleep and sex, wake up at the same early time every day even when you don’t have to, limit screens before, bed… I mean ALL of it. I found that it actually really helped. In combination with medication it might be a life saver. Might be worth doing your own experiment with it.

Good luck!

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for the advice! I have a few months off this summer so going to dedicate that time to relearning how to live, hah

Chef_Boyardee ,

Take up a sport. Kick the crap out of yourself with some intense cardio or something.

And sorry you can’t smoke pot due to health reasons. That’s what I do. I dislike exercise.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Going to start going for hikes at sunrise again, definitely could use more exercise

lagomorphlecture , (edited )

Yeah it’s hard to help because you didn’t go into the nature of your sleep issues, but I had wicked bad insomnia for about 2 decades and sleep great now. CBD/weed helped immensely as well as getting a white noise machine.

Edit: also look up binaural beats and try delta waves. You’ll need a good set of over the ear headphones and you need to just lie in bed in the dark playing it. You can also try yoga nidra, which if you haven’t heard of it is not actually yoga. It’s a form of meditation that you do lying in bed that can help with falling asleep.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for the advice!

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

weed

InternetUser2012 ,

I get anxiety and have sleep problems too. My good friend gave me some of the cbd thc gummies. I take like 5mg and sleep great. Eventually you build up a tolerance, so for me, every 4 months I take a week off and sleep like shit to reset the tolerance and I’m good to go again. I don’t know if it’s a legal option for you, but it’s a game changer.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

SoCal here. We have all the weed, thanks for the tips

SupraMario ,

Do you drink a lot of caffeine and sugary drinks?

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

No sugar, too much black coffee though. Only drink black coffee, sparkling water and regular water.

August27th ,

Brother, if you are having sleep issues and haven’t cut out caffeine yet, you owe it to yourself to start weaning off of it asap and see how that works for you. I can’t have any caffeine after noon, for instance, or else my sleep is fucked.

Other folks on here have already made the Xanax-anxiety connection for you, so I think it’s relevant to point out that in some people, caffeine is an anxiogenic, just saying.

I hope you find better sleep even if this is a dead end.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks, giving up caffeine will be a tough one but sleep is more important for sure

SupraMario ,

I am hyper sensitive to caffeine, I was having debilitating migraines almost daily and got horrible sleep when I was drinking coffee and coke all day. Stopped cold turkey and drink just water and sometimes juice, but I sleep better than ever and I no longer have migraines. You should really cut it completely out, you wouldn’t believe how much better you will feel just removing the sugary and caffeine drinks out.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s going to be tough to give up coffee. Bravo on going cold turkey. I may have to ween myself off with decaf.

SupraMario ,

Cold turkey sucked but the relief I got from cutting it out was well worth the week of pain. Once you’re no longer having to have caffeine to just function, you will find that you have more energy and feel way better without it.

someguy3 , (edited )

Yeah you’re likely caught in a caffeine spiral. You don’t sleep, so you need caffeine, which means you don’t sleep, which means you need even more caffeine, repeat.

Also as strange as this sounds, multivitamin and magnesium (not magnesium oxide).

neutron ,

Do a sleep study when it’s possible, OP. If it’s sleep apnea, a proper CPAP therapy can definitely help.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

I need to do this. My dentist recommended I should get a study, can’t remember why, but he referenced something about my tongue / mouth.

RBWells ,

I’m not a doctor, and certainly not your doctor. But agree with the comment about anxiety - if the Xanax helps, you are treating anxiety that’s keeping you awake, right?

Have you tried running? Or some other tiring physical activity? I’m wound pretty tight and without physical exercise, preferably to the point of exhaustion, it’s very difficult for my brain to let go. But with physical exhaustion from physical activity comes mental relaxation.

You know the Xanax helps, are there other times you’ve had good sleep? Do you know what the conditions were that let you fall and stay asleep?

Also one of my kids got relief by taking Adderall, as counterintuitive as that sounds, helping the ADD helped her sleep even though she was taking literal speed. So please go to a doctor who can evaluate you for anything that might be going on in your mind, you might have room for more improvement than you think. And really - exercise.

Anissem OP ,
@Anissem@lemmy.ml avatar

I have an unusual amount of fucked up shit that’s happened in my life and enough demons pulling on me to end the story. I have some months off soon so I’m going to focus on health and wellness hopefully. I started hiking at sunrise, which was great for a few months. I have the bad habit of reverting.

borari ,

if the Xanax helps, you are treating anxiety that’s keeping you awake, right?

I am also not a doctor, but I just want to point out that xans can knock you out regardless of anxiety. I absolutely do not have anxiety, but I go straight to sleep if I recreationally take xans. Snorting some roxy’s and passing out doesn’t mean you’ve treated underlying pain you didn’t know you had either, you’re just taking something that’s a sedative and becoming sedated.

Correlation vs causation and all that.

RBWells ,

I cannot believe I forgot yin yoga. Yin yoga knocks me out better than drugs. Do it in the bed. Lots of forward folds calms your nerves, tricks your brain into feeling safe. You can look them up online, and do them all with pillows stuffed in the spaces where you can’t reach (like if you are bending over your legs put a pillow between your belly and legs) don’t use effort. Hold each pose a long time - 4-6 minutes.

Seconding the recommendation for Nidra too, but Yin I find works better to lull my brain into sleep in an acute situation. Nidra is more like trippy, relaxing and between awake and asleep, healing in the long term.

One thing I read that stayed with me was “vigilance is the enemy of sleep”. Since you are so stressed with work, probably your mind stays on alert. It’s counterproductive but normal, it’s like it thinks it’s your turn to watch for threats all night long. The yin yoga fights that feeling very well.

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