It’s really hit or miss. The communities generally have most of the same downsides as those on the corporate competition, but with added issues due to the small size of Lemmy/fediverse and inherent features of a decentralized platform.
I mostly stick to bigger communities and instances on Lemmy, which was not a thing I did much on the r-word site, and I admit that makes it trickier to make a one-to-one comparison.
My hobbies and interests aren’t actually all that obscure, but the communities for them on Lemmy are functionally dead, fractured across multiple instances, or just plain non-existent as far as I can tell. Really little or no engagement. So, that sucks.
Another issue that seems especially apparent here is that it seems much easier for smaller groups with “loud” voices / strong opinions to overwhelm any kind of discussion or debate and give the appearance that their opinion is majority opinion, even if it is not. I’m not saying that doesn’t happen elsewhere, just that it seems especially pronounced here. People would complain about group think on the r-word site, but it’s often amplified here.
One thing I like about some of the bigger communities here is that it seems like it’s more visible when unprovoked rudeness and incivility are called out. Not that it never happened on the corporate r-word site, but I do run across that a bit more here.
I’m very new to this I thought the point of it was that all the decentralized bits are still linked. Do you mean there are duplicates of communities that are just named slightly different or what?
They’re not linked. Every instance/server can have it’s own version of “memes”. So you can have [email protected] and [email protected] the one at [email protected] is the most active one though. Imho federation doesn’t work for this. There’s always gonna be one community at the top. If that community goes rogue though, that’s when you can easily drop it and go to another.
Yes exactly. Because anyone can spin up their own instance and communities on that instance, there are many duplicates of traditionally popular communities from other social sites. It used to be worse here, but it’s still pretty bad around sports, politics, and many niche groups.
But it seems to have a higher percentage of zealots. People go crazy and extreme over some weird stuff. You can’t have a casual opinion about Linux here for instance.
So much this. People seem to generally be fine here (I never found the reddit communities I interacted with to be toxic) but heaven forbid you purposefully use Windows or pay for software.
My wife and I have saved enough money that we might be able to move out of our apartment that we bought 10 years ago and into a family home and we plan on keeping the apartment and renting it out as an investment.
You’re spot on - I’m not feeling like I really care about either place these days. Maybe I’ve outgrown social media, especially if the content is high-school level Absolutism.
In my experience a significant portion of Lemmy lives in a fantasy world and really doesnt like this being pointed out.
Take videogames for example, if you were yo ask me what Lemmy thinks about videogames… “AAA devs should only release games they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into making once they are absolutely finished and bug free with no expensive future DLCs or microtransactions, absolutely no ongoing subscription costs for the absolute minimum price they think they can sell it for and not go out of business but it should also be DRM free and nobody should buy it anyway because its digital and you shouldnt feel bad downloading it for free because it doesnt cost money to make another digital copy its just corporate greed.”
God help you if you dont agree. I too would like to live in a post scarcity communist utopia, but we dont.
AAA devs should only release games they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into making once they are absolutely finished and bug free with no expensive future DLCs or microtransactions, absolutely no ongoing subscription costs for the absolute minimum price they think they can sell it for and not go out of business but it should also be DRM free and nobody should buy it anyway because its digital and you shouldnt feel bad downloading it for free because it doesnt cost money to make another digital copy its just corporate greed.”
Honestly I think it’s a lot more complicated and nuanced regarding this here than reddit. When I was a wee lad, I yo-ho-ho some sweet software and games via bbs’s but mostly went legit as I aged. I don’t think there’s more piracy justification here than reddit, but also, I think we’re in a ‘golden-shower-age’ of enshitiffication where services paid for won’t be rendered and that, justifiably, moves the sentiment.
That said, as a game dev, I don’t think people are asking for your proposed argument overwhelmingly - they just want AAA devs to treat their paying userbase better. Some of those considerations are unrealistic, but often they’re justified.
I’m finding Lemmy’s audience to be very similar to 2008 reddit, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than current day reddit and I thank the lemmy creators for having a viable alternative.
I raised the issue that if you want companies like CDPR or Bethesda to keep aiming high and investing 300+ million dollars you have to expect them to try and make their money back as soon as possible or as much as possible over time. 300 million is a HUGE gamble, especially on a video game. So they might rush to launch because the budget is running out, or the game wont be great until it has 2 or 3 expansions or at least a few large patches admittedly I have less sympathy for microtransactions or subscriptions but then thats on the players if they want to support that.
If they are really aiming for groundbreaking, massive, revolutionary… the gaming community needs to tone down the immediate rhetoric or we will just see more and more recycled “it always makes money” Marvel movie type shit.Madden77, Halo 26 and Battlefield 63…
I am reading a lot more toxic discussion and really angry people here on lemmy than i did on reddit, which makes me sometimes think i might be at the wrong place. I blocked some of the communities that pull american politics in my feed but still. On reddit, i was good reading just my niche interest subs, but there is very little traffic here for niche stuff, so i end up reading the crazy talk too.
My experience is exactly the same. I find people way more toxic here, and way more extreme discussions. I still reddit more on my PC, RES makes reddit worthwhile, and I'm unsubbed to most of the very popular subreddits, so my feed is mostly tailored to my hobbies and interests, which don't seem to be either very active here, or don't exist yet.
Since I don't reddit on my phone anymore cause I can't use RIF, I use kbin. But it's rather lackluster to me.
That hints me that what people here is calling “toxic” is politics-related, since I’m a lemmy.ml user and I certainly would not say that my experience here is overall “toxic”.
And, funnily enough, most of the issues that I had were with users from either lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works; sometimes lemm.ee.
Got it - mostly politics, then. That explains a lot why you guys are seeing far more toxicity than I do, I don’t generally join political discussions. (And when I do, since I’m myself communist, perhaps I don’t even notice it.)
Yeah I think it’s because there’s so much less engagement here than on Reddit. The same toxic people would have been buried or down voted to hell over there, but here with far far fewer comments those toxic trolls will remain visible and take up a disproportionate amount of any comments section.
There’s also a selection bias thing going on, people who would get shadow banned or downvoted on Reddit find that they get engagement with their content here so stick around, the people who they put off will leave, which causes the toxicity ratio to go up and eventually the place will end up full of toxic commenters and posters. With a federated system this is an incredibly difficult problem to solve.
There’s some interesting musings on how this can affect the development of online spaces here which has stuck with me since I read it. eev.ee/blog/2016/07/22/on-a-technicality/
You also have a few things Reddit did or could do that you can’t really do on Lemmy. You also have, with a few exceptions, a rather new moderation team on Lemmy without the years of experience that some Reddit moderators had.
Outside of the mass defederation of any Nazi instances, Lemmy has been a lot weaker on overall moderation.
I find Reddit way more toxic, especially post the purge from the lack of apps. It’s like their moderation ranked or something. It’s probably different in smaller pages, but I’ve found the front page over there is way worse than Lemmy nowadays in terms of quality of conversation.
If it’s just about intrusive off-topic political discussion, then I fully agree with you: it’s far more common in Lemmy than in Reddit, and sometimes it reaches a point that even people who’d otherwise enjoy discussing politics roll their eyes and say “not this shit again”.
However, if “toxic” includes other forms of undesirable behaviour, then Lemmy is probably less toxic than Reddit. For example: while sometimes you do see here disingenuous and deliberate stupidity, “waah TL;DR!!”, the “I don’t understand” conveying disagreement, or passive aggressiveness, in Reddit they pop up all the time.
So, what do you consider toxic? Depending on that, the other users’ experiences might be really similar or really different from yours.
I’ve been on the Internet specifically for the social aspects of it since 1990 and I honestly don’t see much difference at all between any specific site, forum, Usenet bulletin board, chat room, or service. Just the in-jokes are different and some terminology changes. People are people no matter where they are. The internet as a whole fosters a particular subset of people that even amongst their own different tribes, are fundamentally the same. A lot of outcasts and marginalized people that have no others of their particular group in reality to vibe with. I’m one of them, and I love the web because there are so many others like me here, everywhere I happen to go on it.
It’s not often I wish for awards to give on Lemmy, but I wish I could for this comment , it is exactly why I love the internet, all summed up perfectly.
At the start it was better, but for about a month now I think there have been more negative interactions than positive ones.
The biggest problem imo is that since Lemmy’s userbase is mostly made up of people who left Reddit, they bring their mentality with them. And the two plaforms have hugely different userbases size wise, so if someone says something really stupid on Reddit you can ignore/ block and you can do that with 1000s of people. On Lemmy if you block 1000s of people, you basically just blocked most people who post/ comment.
/rant over
Yeah basically my biggest problem is with how small the userbase is. ( then again I have a few other problems besides that)
I’m asking because I’ve personally found it far more hostile than Reddit (the only other platform I’ve put much time into). What I’ve mostly seen is that people downvote quickly and tend towards eliteism relative to Reddit. That said, I recognize that this could be just by instance or community, so I’m curious how others have found it.
Yeah idk, I’ve tended to see the exact opposite. I rarely downvote and I think most people I interact with on here do the same.
What kind of communities do you frequent? For me it’s a pretty curated c/home with most chill communities and then I’ll browse c/all and even on there most people seem chill.
So long winded but to answer your question I think most people are nice, the elitist comments might not get drowned out as much since there’s less people.
Edit: wanted to add that the people here on lemmy seem to be older and techy and that demographic tends to be more clear and blunt. However, that might be something that comes off hostile but really isn’t.
ive found it incredibly diverse. there are many instances, and some are known for nice folks. beehaw is friendly.. midwest.social has been nice to me.
lemmy.world is a taunting wasps nest of nonsense.. the bigger the community the more... rough.. you may find it.
I don’t have an issue with downvotes on the face of it - I came from Reddit, and found their system pretty good. The issue I have is that it seems to be used as a “disagree” button a lot more here, which discourages discussion regardless of the quality. For example, even on this post, anyone who said they’ve had a negative experience has been downvoted.
The problem is not just that it’s hostile, but it’s also full of people that know jack shit.
On Reddit you go to r/whatever and there’s a good chance the guy answering your question is the actual godfather of whatever. Those guys didn’t make the move to Lemmy because they are hardcore into whatever, but casually into Reddit. What we got are the people that were hard core into Reddit, and casual into whatever.
So we have a bunch of blind leading the blind dilettantes getting all pissed off about shit they know fuck all about.
That’s actually a really great point that was hitting on something I felt but didn’t understand about my interactions and I think it really sums it up. It feels like every community is a general community here - explaining how technology works on reddit to someone on a general purpose sub was expected, but here you get people posting clickbaity anti-capitalist anti-tech shit in tech communities that are factually wrong and getting absurd upvotes and agreement from people who agree with the politics and that’s all.
I miss some of the communities I used on reddit that are still either quiet or very quiet over here, but I also recognise that unless I ramp up my participation in them, I haven’t really got grounds to feel negative about that. Besides, using social media less is a plus to me.
I love there’s no ads, tracking and ‘suggestions’ - in short, no algorithm. The apps are (mostly) open source and the community are appreciative of that.
I used to get news from reddit and can get it here too, there’s no difference in quality or quantity. Politically, I appreciate the de-emphasis on hateful content and it helps I’m on an instance where the Admin is on top of their game in that respect. It is noticeably more left-wing on here but since I am too I guess that’s not an issue for me. It’s certainly way better than Reddit in that respect where I’d stumble across fairly extreme right-wing opinions in (supposedly) non political subs every day.
People seem, by and large, much calmer and more reasonable here and less inclined to attack en masse. I’ve noticed a distinct improvement in my overall mental health but I think that might have more to do with not being on reddit than being on here.
Lemmy is what we make it. For those of us who came over in the Summer, Lemmy/KBin is less than 6 months old. Let’s not paint it into being one thing or another just yet.
I try to participate more actively on Lemmy than I did on reddit, where I was really just a lurker. I decided to do so in order to support the platform at least a little. I have the impression that a lot of lemmy users feel similar and really do want to care for this project. And that’s really cool, I think.
In my opinion, however, the biggest issue with Lemmy has unfortunately changed little in the past 6 months: I think there is still pretty little original content. What’s more, the little OC there is easily gets lost in the flood of reposts or screenshots from other platforms. At least that’s the impression I get from most of the larger communities (besides from /pics). I think that’s a shame since this makes it hard to find and appreciate the content someone took quite some time to make.
As far as interactions with others are concerned, it sometimes bothers me that a whole bunch of Lemmy users seem to have really fixed opinions on certain topics. Those guys don’t seem to take arguments into account at all but rather seem to be on some sort of propaganda mission instead. So it seems to me that there are multiple topics that simply can’t be discussed in a meaningful way on Lemmy. I think that’s a shame as well.
But all in all, I quite like Lemmy for what it is.
I tend to find that it needs about 10x the users, but I honestly don’t know if it could handle that at the moment. Generally I would assume one would use a social network for the social aspects, but right now the top (everything) post of the past 24 hours has something like a thousand votes and about a hundred comments, which is actually a pretty decent amount. But there’s maybe 1 other post with 100+ comments right now in the top of the past 24 hours that I can see. Go to a second page or scroll for a bit and you’ll see most posts have less than ten comments.
Is number of comments the most important metric? Probably not, but it is pretty important one since it’s kind of the main reason I would come here instead of just scrolling through Google News or whatever, and I’m guessing I’m not alone.
The only people who actually managed the migration in my opinion were the StarTrek.website people, and it took a clever coordinated effort in a community of people who probably skew more technical than most. For most communities that were interested in things like specific games, shows, hobbies, or whatever and not interested in a new computer toy to play with, they’ve essentially died out and are either ghost towns or full of bot posts.
In large part I think it’s because Lemmy’s discoverability is pretty trash, and while I get that it’s kind of on purpose it’s still an issue. The migration led to this explosion of communities but because finding them is harder than making them, it spread these relatively small communities out. The hope was that they would find each other and coalesce, but instead it seems like they took the path of least resistance and just slid back to their old haunts.
One of Lemmy’s key strengths is that it can act both as an aggregator that has a stream of news stories and comments but if tuned slightly differently it can act much more like an old school forum, but there’s really no way to bridge the two ways of interaction right now. I think one path forward is finding that middle ground, and slowly becoming a respiratory of useful discussions like old school forums, Facebook groups, and yeah even reddit. But to do that there needs to be a lot more searchable and discoverable and not just letting Google do it. Finding a way to both surface jokes and memes and whatever for quick consumption, but also having some way to keep those highly technical 130 page long forum posts where they reverse engineer an aquarium bubble pump or something available and simmering on the back burner, ready to be found in a few years and awakened when someone makes a breakthrough.
On a more personal note, I feel like I’m vibing less and less with Lemmy. The memes have slowed way down, the articles are interesting sometimes but the lack of any comments makes me less interested in interacting with them, and I feel like I hit the wall of reddit repost bots spamming thousands of sonic fan arts way quicker than I used to. It honestly feels a lot more like it’s dying from lack of meaningful user interaction pretty much everywhere outside the star trek memes. Half the time it feels like I’m just using Hacker News by proxy. Just like that line “butter spread over too much bread” it feels like the users are spread out over too many servers. I dunno, I’ve had a few so I’m rambling. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk I guess.
I blocked all of those repost bots a few months ago, and it really improved the experience for me. No longer are there seemingly interesting posts but with 0 engagement, with the real OP not even on Lemmy. It feels a lot more organic.
That’s funny. My experience with lemmy is it’s overwhelmingly leftist. And anything that doesn’t reinforce their worldview is heavily downvoted. Every liberal who isn’t hanging out on lemmygrad is called a liberal as a slur or a reactionary.
The only things I’ve seen that are exclusively non-leftist is the conservative Lemmy that thinks Fox News and Newsmax is a credible source of information
The only things I’ve seen that are exclusively non-leftist is the conservative Lemmy that thinks Fox News and Newsmax is a credible source of information
The thing is that Democratic Socialism is not seen favorably by a lot of leftists, as they’re seen as being more loyal to the establishment than to revolution. Too leftist for the American Overton window, but not leftist enough for Lemmygrad types, basically
I don’t know that it’s too leftist for me - just a lot of the personalities are too much for me - i can’t listen to anymore Bernie-would’ve-won and Hillary’s-a-war-criminal 8 years later.
I also think Hillary would’ve been a great president for real, so no one likes me either.
I also think Hillary would’ve been a great president for real, so no one likes me either.
A lot of people think Biden is a great president, which shows you just how low the bar is these days. FDR had a literal plot on his life and still had the balls to rule as a socialist, and he was so popular he ended up the longest-serving president in US history.
We don’t rule in the US, we govern with the consent of the people.
But yes, FDR was the tits. And a native New Yorker. But he also was extraordinarily popular which is what allowed him to do what he did. He was also a wealthy elite with connections - his cousin was a president too.
because any criticism of Biden right now helps Trump to become president. Save your criticisms when there is an actual open primary (ie: 2027), it’s already too late for a challenge to Biden this year, as a majority of states ballot access filing deadline dates have already passed.
¯_ (ツ)_/¯ . I consider myself dem soc, I just see the necessity of pragmatism right now; when the alternative is a presidential candidate who reads Mein Kampf as an instruction manual.
I voted Biden in full knowledge very little would change because I thought we needed a cultural win against the rise of fascism here in the US.
Unfortunately, mostly through inaction, he’s aided its rise considerably. Most Americans are working multiple jobs to survive now, and housing is growing more scarce and expensive, and their grocery bills are still doubled or tripled. Trump is not going to have to lie about how bad the Biden presidency has been for the poor and middle class, and voters aren’t going to give a shit if someone’s a Nazi if they are the candidate of change.
Then, there’s social issues, like guns, or being unwilling to challenge Israeli genocide, or abortion, or police militancy, that are inextricably linked to fascism, and he’s done nothing to move the needle forward in a positive way. In fact, when Roe repeal was leaked, the Democrats used it to raise funds and nothing else, even though they had the presidency and Congress.
Long story short, I don’t know that I consider Biden a pragmatic alternative at this point. While he’s been laser-focused on sending more of our money to the war budget and keeping his embarrassing offspring out of prison, workers have suffered.
The biggest plus here is that Biden’s neglect of workers here in the US has gotten so bad its forced unions to become stronger.
Long story short, I don’t know that I consider Biden a pragmatic alternative at this point.
I get you, and you’re not wrong with the rest of what you wrote. The R’s have had a coherent game plan since Nixon and executed on it well enough (and had enough lucky accidents) to engineer exactly this kind of election.
The choice is whether or not the US continues as a representative democracy. This time it’s no hyperbole; it’s a truly binary decision for the future. And I’m afraid unless the D’s grow a real backbone, every election for the foreseeable future is going to be a response to an existential threat.
In America, you only have two choices. If you vote for something other that democrats or liberals, your vote is literally wasted. Both choices are considered “right” or “centrum right” in most European countries, there is no “left” choice. The system is utterly ridiculous and there’s no escaping it. The most usefull thing you can do with your vote is to choose the least evil party (or join the system and change it from the inside).
In America, you only have two choices. If you vote for something other that democrats or liberals, your vote is literally wasted.
That logic is why we are where we are. A 40-year loss of personal and economic liberty, because you and yours refuse to see the two parties for what they are.
It seems nice and scratches the itch to be approximately social, but suffering through seeing the same 5 articles posted nearly back to back by bots is deeply annoying. And the lack of content when sorting by 6hrs means I inevitably have to spam block the weird porn/fetish stuff that decides to crop up in-between lol.
I like it better. Sometimes you do see users being irrational, entitled/whiny or disingenuous, but it’s still way less than you’d see in Twitter or Reddit. And I’ve seen users chewing others for engaging in those three things, frankly that’s fucking great.
However I do think that there’s lots of room to improve. I’ll mention some sore points:
On disagreement, some users immediately assuming that the others are stupid (lacking reasoning) or ignorant (lacking a piece of info), instead of asking themselves “am I missing something?”.
While witch hunters are not as bad here as in Reddit, they’re still bad. If you want to denounce people, basic reading comprehension is obligatory.
Excessive focus on the words being used to convey something instead of what is being conveyed.
“WAAAHHH TL;DR!@!@!1” is becoming more and more frequent. If it’s too long to read, it’s also too long to whine about its length.
For me, it’s great. It’s like Reddit honestly, no matter how many would get offended by the comparison, but that’s how it feels to me. I wasn’t a power user there, and I haven’t been here.
I like reading and finding stuff, and that’s been fun and plentiful here too. The comments are much less numerous, but about the same in terms of their content. At least compared to how it was when I left Reddit, and it’s been a while now, maybe it’s changed.
If I want serious and informative and extremely helpful comments, I’ll hop to hackernews at yc. If so want to know what’s up around the world and see cute cats and a few interesting things besides, I’ll just open lemmy and do a short scroll. If I feel like I need a pick-me-up, I’ll read the comments in anything other than news articles regarding war or politics. I get the same feeling I did back in Reddit. There are legitimately funny comments and jokes and such here, and it’s great for what it is.
I haven’t tried tilde, though I did give it a peek back in the day. I feel perfectly at home and content here, combined with hackernews. It’s enough, and since I mostly just do short scrolls here and there and don’t really doom scroll, it’s just very nice.
I love being here, honestly, and have had no complaints after I got over missing Apollo (the client) and then, for a short period, Memmy.
Once the UX got close to what I like, with Voyager, it’s been nice and cozy.
Haven’t missed Reddit at all. I get the exact same experience here personally.
I just wish there was a single leftist community on the internet which was academically engaged with contemporary political science instead of simping for shitty autocrats because they want to relitigate the cold war.
It is the exact same as reddit, only there’s less content and comments.
The people, mods, bots, and content are all just the same. There’s even still people shilling covert adds on here. It’s just cheaper and easier for them to get to the front page of lemmy, since you only need like 20 bot/fake accounts.
The last one I remember was an “article” dealing with some web analytics stuff that all the bigger websites use. It was written to look like someone not associated with any of the different ones talked about, but there was one that was written about more favorably that happened to be cheaper than what was commonly used. The comment section had a couple accounts agreeing but it was all pretty obvious. I’ll see if I can find it.
Hm not sure what to make of this. The author of the article states pretty clearly what company they are affiliated with. The comments seem to push a product called Splunk which doesn't appear in the article at all.
People started recommending splunk in the comments to troll against the OP that submitted the link to lemmy. Also, when it popped up on lemmy at had like 15 votes and no negative votes, which is really high and odd to happen in the instance. Especially if you look at how many down votes it has on it now.