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TinyPizza ,
@TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

From the article:

“But you know that there are a lot of refugees, a lot of innocent civilians—men, women, and children—in that refugee camp as well, right?” Blitzer asked again.
“This is the tragedy of war, Wolf. We as you know, we’ve been saying for days, move south. Civilians who are not involved with Hamas, please move south.”

Holy shit, Wolf is getting trolled on just as hard as us, but on live TV... I hate the future.

TokenBoomer OP ,

Looks like that concept paper was true.

TinyPizza ,
@TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

Yeah :(

drislands ,

Which concept paper?

TokenBoomer OP ,

This one.

DarthBueller ,

Doesn’t matter whether this is real or not, it’s far from a new concept, and the experiment of Palestinian refugee camps in Egypt was a lesson that Egypt has zero desire to repeat. Hell, Egypt now is only considering allowing wounded Palestinians into Sinai after massive international pressure. The plain truth of the matter is that Egypt has NO interest in admitting any Palestinians. No Arab country does. Hell, it’s amazing that there hasn’t been a successful Palestinian revolution in Jordan, since they’re in the majority. The Arab strategy for decades has been to push anti-Jewish (not merely anti-Israeli) propaganda to redirect popular discontent from domestic politics to “the plight of their Muslim brethren,” which also has the knock-on effect of redirecting a fair amount of domestic terrorism to international terrorism; while also not allowing additional Palestinian refugees into the country because the Palestinians have a history of actively destabilizing Arab nations they’re admitted to.

TWeaK ,

And then they throw a bomb in the south.

sudoshakes ,

The US fucked up hard on its killing of civilians, but MODT of the time it was at least a result of supporting direct ground combat where friendly forces were engaged. At least that was true from weeks after the initial invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Israel is tossing bombs at targets, using the most advanced aircraft in the world… and their ground forces are not within 10 miles of the site.

That’s what makes this inexcusable. They had time. They didn’t have ground forces under threat. Every vehicle isn’t an IED waiting to happen yet. They have the time to check for authorization before letting a JDAM off the rails.

The right to defend has to come with purse string implications if they use it as right to kill without mercy. They do this, we cut funding. They do it more, in clearly not accidental strikes, we impose sanctions. The purse will hurt enough due to their reliance on western arms, that they change lest they not be able to drop bombs at all.

It’s one thing to have a legit terror target and mistake the building or some freak accident. It’s another to drop a bomb on a refugee camp and then simply shrug.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The video of the car being shot by the tank is a clear example of their actions. If anyone hasn’t seen it, there was a tank parked on a road sort of hidden from sight, in a ‘safe area’ in central Gaza, outside of the evacuation zone. A car didn’t see it at first, noticed and turned around still a bit away from the tank, as it begins to drive away the tank fires on them and kills them. If you look at the strikes going on now this is what it is, it isn’t a ‘Hamas rocket position’ or other BS, there hasn’t been a shred of verifiable evidence for any target that it was a legitimate military target.

SCB ,

military spends 2 weeks saying not to be in the operational area or they’ll assume you’re Hamas

Military tells civilians explicitly how to approach so as not to be seen as Hamas

you erratically drive a car at said military in said operational zone

how could the IDF do this??

SCB , (edited )

“refugee camp” is the designation of several cities in Gaza. This was a city of 50k people pre-evac. It’s not a bunch of tents.

sudoshakes ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    SCB ,

    . You asked why it matters and it matters because this statement is 100% incorrect.

    Point A.) They acknowledged it was a known refugee camp. A known collection of civilians gathering after being displaced. They knew these people were there.

    It is not a current refugee camp. It is in the North, where they told people to evacuate from. It is not a “collection of civilians gathering” - the city is mostly abandoned. These aren’t even the first bombs dropped there, by a long shot

    This sort of misunderstanding lets people bring this up as if Israel is currently bombing refugees, which is a significant lie.

    bradorsomething ,

    “Look Wolf, we’ve experienced a genocide, leave this to the professionals, okay?”

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    https://y.yarn.co/e75f034d-c799-42a4-8a62-1a00aa63e6b1_text.gif

    _dev_null ,
    @_dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz avatar

    Get the fuck out of here and let the grownups talk.

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    I meant the sentiment unironically. Apologies to those who were offended and didn’t use insulting, condescending language.

    TokenBoomer OP ,

    I got it. :)

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    but this is the now. the present. well, technically it’s the past. but tomorrow is a brand new day!

    Dontcare ,

    It’s fascinating. Every war has collateral damage and Hamas deliberately hides behind civilians- a war crime- and Israel gives them opportunity to leave

    And hamas deliberately targets civilians and you say nothing

    dx1 ,

    What are some of your own quotes on Israel targeting civilians? I assume they’re intended to absolve Israel of all responsibility?

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    We’re doing everything we can, you know, other than not dropping bombs directly on refugees

    Rapidcreek ,

    Jabalya was established in 1948. It’s not a refugee camp and hasn’t been in 50 years. Don’t buy into their narrative.

    blaine ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Rapidcreek ,

    Fine but calling it a refugee camp gives westerners visions of tents. It is not that.

    Flyswat ,

    Oh, not tents? Go ahead you can bomb then!

    blaine ,

    The IDF spokesman in the clip confirmed they were aware of refugee women and children in the location before deciding to go ahead with the bombing.

    ArbitraryValue ,

    Article 28 of the Geneva Convention:

    The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

    funkpandemic ,

    Lmao thanks for the laugh, I’ve never seen someone cite the Geneva convention to justify bombing women and children 🤡

    Edit: let me reiterate, lmaoooooooo

    DoomBot5 ,

    Yet here we are with everyone calling it a war crime, then when they are shown it’s in fact not, they just plug their ears and go on with their narrative.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief. aka this thread and others like it for the last few weeks.

    DoomBot5 ,

    narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief.

    Agreed, the amount of people throwing words around like “genocide” and “carpet bombing” have long detached from reality.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    yep. the ideological warfare is largely electronic these days, fought in forums and threads. a battle waged by paragraph. where. every. word. matters.

    DoomBot5 ,

    And yet words are becoming meaningless because of how they’re abused to push a narrative.

    Maeve ,

    And immediately turned around and said, “No Wolf, that’s not what you’re hearing.”

    dx1 ,

    I think that’s called “gaslighting”. Or “doublespeak”. One of those.

    LordGimp ,

    I found the zionist shill. Can I have a prize?

    Rapidcreek ,

    Zionist? Closest I’ve come to being Jewish was a girl friend I had in high school. Been to Israel on business, but been a lot of places. What’s your problem?

    queue , (edited )
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Zionism isn’t being Jewish, it’s being pro-Israel and its intentions of establishing a unified control of the area. Joe Biden and Donald Trump are Zionists, neither are Jewish in faith or ethnicity. Bernie Sanders is Jewish, but against Israel’s expansion of the borders and acts it does.

    It’s like how you can be against Israel and not be Antisemetic, or be Antisemetic and be pro-Israel for reasons from “I want them exported to there” to “They will allow the Kingdom of God to come to Earth”.

    I am against Israel’s apartheid state, and I am against it’s ethnic cleaning of the area. Just as I am for any nation who aims to do that, like Turkey and Russia. But I don’t explicitly hate Turkish or Russian or Israeli citizens blindly because their government that they don’t have direct control over does horrible acts.

    Zionism ≠ Jewish

    Jewish ≠ Zionism

    Rapidcreek ,

    Actually Zionism originated in the early 1900’s and had to do with establishing a homeland for Jewish people.

    I dislike Israel’s heavy handed approach, but I understand it. I dislike Bibi, because he never really stopped being a New Jersey bar bouncer (yeah he was, look it up). I also understood exactly the outcome of the Hamas attacks, and can understand the resulting war. I can also understand that civilians will be killed in this war as long as they are around Hamas.

    medgremlin ,

    How are they supposed to not be around Hamas? They aren’t allowed to leave Gaza (whether it’s the IDF or Hamas preventing their departure doesn’t matter that much here). Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?

    Rapidcreek ,

    I simply made a statement. Israelis aren’t going to not engage Hamas because they surround themselves with civilians. Its up to them to move.

    medgremlin ,

    The Israeli government could fix the problem by putting an end to the settler attacks in the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza in pursuit of a true two-state solution. The easiest way to isolate Hamas would be to fully and properly recognize and protect the rights of Palestinian civilians in a way that would offer them a better life away from Hamas influence. All they’re doing right now is a massive recruiting campaign for Hamas.

    Rapidcreek ,

    That would not eliminate Hamas. Since the butchery early this month, that is the only goal. After that, maybe some ideas can be examined

    DoomBot5 ,

    If you think that will actually make a difference, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

    DoomBot5 ,

    Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?

    Maybe using international aid that isn’t being stolen by Hamas and used to make rockets.

    LordGimp ,

    My problem is preprogrammed regurgitators of nonsense like you that equate zionism with Judaism. These things are not the same.

    Rapidcreek ,

    Nonetheless , what I stated is still true. It’s awful easy for the ignorant to assign labels they don’t truly understand.

    Spyd3r ,
    @Spyd3r@lemmy.world avatar

    Their problem is the facts don’t fit their narrative and its making them mentally unstable.

    iHUNTcriminals , (edited )

    I’m just scrolling. Not really doing anything.

    And nothing’s ever going to change if we don’t do anything.

    So think about the question; “well what can I do?”

    We can’t do shit because we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs. We are helpless, because the most conniving people at the perfect time in the past made it that way.

    When war is happening we should all feel guilty.

    LordGimp ,

    Boycott Israel

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    not going to happen. look at their export list - we need all of that stuff except for the diamonds

    SlikPikker ,

    Boycutt Israel

    Spread some pro Palestinian narratives

    Call your reps

    It’s not much, but it can help

    slinkyninja ,

    Cut off the funding. Do not support trade that benefits some while hurting others.

    tocopherol ,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    We might be helpless to stop it this second, but there are actions we can take to slow the support for this down and stop it in the future hopefully. Even little things can help, we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs but they are always outnumbered by their pawns.

    Stanley_Pain ,
    @Stanley_Pain@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    And people wonder why they’re calling what Israel is doing a genocide…

    4am , (edited )

    “tAnKiEs aRe ThE ReAl aNtIsEmItEs NoW! YoU cAn’T sAy pAlEsTiNeAn ChIlDrEn aRe InNoCeNt wItHoUt sUpPoRtInG HaMaS!”

    EDIT: either no one knows the mOcKiNg TeXt meme, or there are a lot of IDF supporters in here

    GONADS125 ,

    I downvote that type of meme humor because I don’t find it adds to discussion. Even if I agree with the person, I downvote them every time.

    Up/downvotes are meant for promoting relevant discussion and suppressing off-topic content, spam, trolls, and hate. They are not and were never intended to be dis/agreement buttons. People just misuse them.

    nbafantest ,

    God tankies are insufferable

    TinyPizza ,
    @TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

    Define what a tankie is. You obviously know, right?

    GONADS125 ,

    I’m not convinced from that comment that the user they’re referring to is a tankie, but simply put, I’d describe a tankie as the alt-left equivalent of the alt-right.

    They’re not quite as violent in my opinion, but they push pro-china/russia propoganda and misinformation, and are just as self-deluded and delusional as the alt-right. I’ve also seen tankies justify Hamas’ attack against Isreal, which I find inexcusable and morally reprehensible. The same can be said of the IDF’s genocide against innocent Palestinians.

    Tankies are on the fringe and are just on the other end of the bell curve of the alt-right.

    DarthBueller ,

    You forgot to mention IRGC propaganda and misinformation. The current Gaza conflict is, without a doubt, the biggest propaganda victory the IRGC has ever had. They’ve got the US left absolutely fractured. People were worried about 2024 elections? HAHAHAH just wait. We’re so fucked.

    TinyPizza ,
    @TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

    Sure, my point was that they didn't know. That they were just out here throwing out words they had no clue about and (in my and others opinion) doing it as an attempt to drive wedges in the community. That's literally the joke up the thread that the guy baited the moron in with. I've met some of these people in real life. They weren't violent. They absolutely we're deluded apologists, but outside of talking revolution in the streets (which I don't think is to imply violence either, Iceland for example) they we're very much passive folk that just got pulled into a lame MLM.

    To your later point, personally I agree, that the attack Hamas carried out on people in Israel is inexcusable. I don't think that is ubiquitous on the left, nor should it be. It parallels quite clearly in the discussions we're all having as to the validity of attacks on civilian populations but to some it is also a question of self defense under the massively imbalanced power dynamic between the two countries. Not only are we talking about apartheid here, but what is clearly becoming erasure. The longer this madness goes on the more people are going to question the validity of that Oct 7 attack and as I see the atrocities carried out daily I wonder if that point will come for me as well.

    That's the significance of this story. Wolf fucking Blitzer, is starting to question this shit. If you ever needed a warning that you are taking the lead in the "bad guy" race, this is a skull and bones in the tea leaves.

    dangblingus ,

    Authoritarian Leftist who thinks Stalin and Mao had great ideas on how to run a country. Unironically pro-communist dictatorship.

    umbrella , (edited )
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    mao literally freed them from the rest of british colonial influence and kicked off the start of the prosperity and development china is in rn

    dangblingus ,

    Not sure what tankies have to do with it, but I think everyone understands mocking text, and yes, there is a lot of pro-IDF astroturfing on all social media platforms currently.

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