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US supreme court blocks ‘ghost gun’ makers again from selling at-home kits

Justices reverse federal judge’s order that allowed manufacturers to sell unregulated kits that convert into firearms

The US supreme court on Monday barred two Texas-based manufacturers from selling products that can be quickly converted at home into firearms called “ghost guns”, granting a request by Joe Biden’s administration to once again block a federal judge’s order that had sided with companies.

The justices lifted Fort Worth-based judge Reed O’Connor’s 14 September injunction barring enforcement of a 2022 federal regulation – a rule aimed at reining in the privately made firearms – against the two manufacturers, Blackhawk Manufacturing and Defense Distributed.

mctoasterson ,

Since a lot of people either didn’t read or can’t read. This isn’t a Supreme Court ruling on the substantive issue of gun kits and their legality. This has an interlocutory posture, which is sort of like saying the higher court has weighed in on one aspect of the case (the lower court injunction) while the appeals process is still ongoing.

TL;DR - A lower court stopped enforcement of a federal regulation. The Supreme Court said it can be enforced while the underlying issue is still being litigated.

FireTower , (edited )
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

I 2nd this. This isn’t major news, if you aren’t really into firearms case law ignore this post exists.

lightnsfw ,

Once again BIG GOVERNMENT is trying to strip us of our freedoms. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM GHOSTS NOW!?

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Salt shot?

Pohl ,

Do we have any law people actually familiar with this issue around? As a layperson, I cannot honestly tell where the court sees boundaries on second amendment stuff. Why would the gov have the authority to restrict these guns, but not others?

The 2A language seems simple to me. Once you “interpret” your way around the “well regulated militia” language, seems hard to justify any laws that restrict the ownership of anything that can be seen as armaments. I know that must be wrong but I can’t figure out why.

gloog ,

Also a layperson, but while the courts may have ruled against certain details of background check requirements (like whether certain kinds of restraining orders can be used to disqualify someone from buying or possessing guns) they have not ruled against background checks being required for gun sales as a concept. The entire purpose of these kits, whether the manufacturer says so or not, is to bypass background check laws by selling something that technically doesn't meet the definition of a firearm but can very easily be modified to become one.

trash80 ,

like whether certain kinds of restraining orders can be used to disqualify someone from buying or possessing guns

What sort of restraining orders have been ruled on?

gloog ,

Technically it's only the fifth circuit that's decided that DV restraining orders don't prohibit gun ownership so far, and the case is part of the current term for SCOTUS. My guess would be that SCOTUS will overrule the 5th circuit while still leaving the "historical analog" test from last year that was the basis of that decision in place, but that's just an assumption on my part.

trash80 ,

I’ll have to look at that. I would have thought that would qualify as due process.

BanditMcDougal , (edited )

The length of the 2nd Amendment is insanely short and likely thought to be quite obvious to the authors. Ironically, it has likely been more debated than any other Amendment. There have even been court cases that focus on how the placement of commas impacts the meaning.

To your comment on “well regulated,” the debate there has to do with how the phase has changed meaning over time; well regulated meant “well maintained” or “taken care of.” A well maintained clock, for instance, would have its gears cleaned and oiled at regular intervals.

Even in the groups that still hold that interpretation debate on whether the phrase then mean well-drilled/disciplined or well-stocked with arms.

With regard to at-home kits, the general rule/understanding was you could build your own with your own tools and any materials that were only 80% or less manufactured/machined to being a completed firearm.

The debate kinda went like this: “Is a block of metal a gun?” “So… How much work am I allowed to do to this block of metal before I get in trouble for selling it to somebody else?” “Ionno… A lot, I guess? 80% sound good?”

So, people started selling 80% kits within the bounds of the law. They were blocks of material mostly milled with instructions, and sometimes tools, to finish the job.

The article doesn’t explain why these kits in question are getting blocked. I’m suspecting too many things were sold at once as part of the kit, though. 80% kits normally don’t have barrels, for instance.

Uranium3006 ,
@Uranium3006@kbin.social avatar

englishmen had a right to bear arms, and the second amendment is just codifying that into american law too.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

TLDR: This case isn’t settled this change was just a matter of if a party should have been subject to an injunction before a ruling is issued. This isn’t major news, the SC isn’t commenting saying it’s cool or not cool to regulate X. This is them opining on a procedural mater.

trash80 ,

As a layperson, I cannot honestly tell where the court sees boundaries on second amendment stuff.

Part of the problem is that there isn’t a lot of case law and precedent, and the BATFE has a lot of latitude with interpreting the laws and creating guidelines with respect to how the law should be enforced.

Why would the gov have the authority to restrict these guns, but not others?

These are not firearms in the legal sense.

8565 ,

Freedom and Liberty won’t just die. It will be death by a thousand cuts.

That being said don’t think the government is doing this to protect you, if they make it hard for the populace to get weapons they don’t have to worry as much when they over step their bounds

Downcount ,

Wherever you stand in the pro or contra of this topic: Allowing people to DIY guns at home is one of the worst ways to obtain guns.

8565 ,

Not really. A gun the government can’t track is a gun that the government can’t take during a revolution

Visstix ,

Lol

holycrapwtfatheism ,

Counterpoint is you can already legally build your own gun legally as long as it abides state and federal laws. These kits offer a safer diy experience than just throwing a 3d printed Glock clone together and hoping it works. Plenty of people have also built AR15 variants from "80% lowers" which require some diy milling and assembly. Having safe and tested diy options is likely a good thing for overall safety.

hemko ,

Is it really governments business whatever happens in your house as long as you’re not hurting someone else?

Shalakushka ,
@Shalakushka@kbin.social avatar

Cmon government, I was just making Anthrax for science, I was never gonna hurt anyone with it!!

Shalakushka ,
@Shalakushka@kbin.social avatar

Can you tell us more about your Rambo fantasy where you fight the big bad government with your very cool and very masculine guns?

BaroqueInMind , (edited )
@BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

USA is the current global superpower that is literally unrivaled by any civilisation in history.

Meanwhile some uneducated farmers and mountain herders with AKs pushed the shit back up USA's ass. Don't need Rambo or Gravy Seals to defeat a global superpower.

Shalakushka ,
@Shalakushka@kbin.social avatar

Now do it without a literal ocean to transport supplies and troops over, without multiple surrounding hostile countries. Afghanistan was a failure of logistics and political will, not the victory of the AK over the military.

smotherlove ,

I’ve seen this same dialog a thousand times already, you both need some new material

ryathal ,

Now do it where the “bad guys” look and act exactly the same as the soldiers.

8565 ,

Your snarkiness aside, Your stance seems to be “if it’s hard don’t fight”

I’m sure the Revolution would have went well with that mentality

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