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Confused_Emus ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2c526c2f-5317-4e75-8226-dd4e3df4b914.jpeg

courval ,

It’s not that these people are necessarily dumb it’s a kink like any other. They want to keep the thrill of getting off on doing something illegal and socially unacceptable (in the fascist society they support)

pelletbucket ,

lol ok

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

I can understand people disagreeing with them, but kicking sand and attacking people is literally the actions of fascist too. You don’t win people over by attacking them.

Today ,

That sounds like the right answer, but really, I’d be right there kicking sand.

Passerby6497 ,

You don’t prevent your bar from becoming a nazi bar by asking nicely though.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

So what’s the plan then? You going to punch the other side in the face to win their votes and show them how anti-fascist you are?

Passerby6497 ,

You make it clear they’re not welcome in the community, by force if necessary, and you let them back in once they’ve shown they can be trusted to be a member of the community again. IF they show they’ve changed.

I’ve been on a committee of people making this decision more than once. Rarely do people change enough to be welcomed back. Community self policing is the only way to really protect yourself when the government shows they wont.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Where do they go? Do you propose that America has red states where only conservatives should live & blue states where liberals can live? Do you want to put over half of voters in concentration camps?

Passerby6497 ,

Oh no, the slipperiest of slopes attached to nothing but pure conjecture! I will never be hungry again with all of the words you just put into my mouth!

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    davidagain ,

    Their point was that kicking someone out of a small club isn’t the same as kicking them out of the state.

    Your exaggeration of their point is what made it bad, not the point itself. That’s what the slippery slope fallacy is.

    They saw no point in debating your exaggerated question because it was so different to their position.

    They showed that they understood your debating technique better than you showed.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    No, they showed that they wanted to engage in fascist behavior against a majority of voters right (according to polls).

    davidagain ,

    If you put a paedophile in charge of the country, none of our children are safe.

    timewarp , (edited )
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    I had planned on voting for Biden, but seeing how much Democrats are lying and gaslighting I’m actually thinking about staying home at this point. But you must know, even Biden has a history of questionable behavior with kids, sniffing them, touching them inappropriately, and it appears (according to Snopes) that Ashley Biden wrote about him showering with her and confirmed the diary to be hers in court.

    Furthermore, Trump has not been found guilty of being a pedophile. Democrats had 4 years to bring up charges on Trump being a pedo. They did not do it. Biden doesn’t call Trump a pedo. It is the Democrat voters grasping at straws who are in a cult making accusations rather than presenting policy because they lack intelligence. There is also this:

    theguardian.com/…/donald-trump-sexual-assault-law…

    Even more proof that the Katie Johnson story stinks and the media doesn’t report on it, cause they already investigated it and determined it lacked credibility:

    vox.com/…/trump-rape-13-year-old-lawsuit-katie-jo…

    There are others too:

    huffpost.com/…/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a31a5e…

    Trump may be a pedophile, but to prove that you need a trial and evidence.

    davidagain ,

    Your double standards are striking (across multiple conversations here). In this case you’ve concluded that a girl who got death threats for bringing a case against Trump withdrew, not because of the death threats, but because she was lying, and you’ve equated smelling hair with rape.

    I once said that I thought that a politician who is famous for some pretty racist policies was probably trying to do the right thing in an admittedly stupidly foolish way on a separate issue, and people got very cross with me online for defending her, but it never once made me inclined to vote for her, that would be idiotic, so I simply don’t believe for a minute you were thinking of voting for Biden. If you want to claim you were prepared to vote for Biden, go on, what was it that made you think he would be a better president than trump?

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    The reasons I was inclined to vote for Biden is because I am agnostic. I support LGBTQ+ rights. I want to see the government providing more safety nets for people. Trump helped foster the environment for the Jan 6. insurrection. I’m not considering staying home to help Trump win. I’m considering staying home because Democrats actions lately have been gaslighting and lying. The state I’m in is not a swing state.

    davidagain ,

    You claim Democrats are the ones gaslighting and lying?!

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s what I said, yes. The ones gaslighting about Biden right now are.

    davidagain ,

    What do you think gaslighting means, and how far do you feel you’ve been gaslit?

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    So 30% support fascism according to you, but come elections over 40% are expected to vote for Trump. Who are the other 10%? Are the people voting for RFK Jr. fascist? Would that mean over 50% of Americans are fascist? Do you expect 39% to win in a war against over 50%?

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    According to these facts you present, what you’re suggesting here is is that the following time periods in American history we were ruled by fascists and everyone that voted for those Presidents were fascists?

    2017-2021 2001-2009 1989-1993 1981-1989 1974-1977 1969-1974

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Your argument is that everyone who votes for the Republican (Trump presumably in this case) is fascist, is it not?

    Icalasari ,

    He's been popping up a lot. He argues in bad faith. Likely a paid troll

    TallonMetroid ,
    @TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe if fascists got their faces punched in more often they’d understand that getting punched in the face sucks and that maybe they shouldn’t advocate for punching people in the face in the first place.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Was Biden voting against same-sex marriages and gay people serving in the military a fascist once? Will Democrats call Biden a recovered fascist?

    wreckedcarzz ,
    @wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

    You once were a child, making poor decisions. Are you still that way? (waves at the rest of the crowd to hold their comments) No? Would you look at that then, it’s like people are capable of growing and learning.

    So, you fuck that bullshit narrative here and now, past and future actions don’t mean shit. People change for better or worse, and you don’t sit on your ass and point fingers because past or promises, but by current actions, things occurring here and now.

    And right the fuck now there’s only one realistic option for the LGBT+ community in the states, so I don’t particularly give a damn what the fuck happened decades ago. If you’re still stuck in the past, might want to reflect on that. The rest of us have bigger shit to worry about.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    If you’re worried about LGBTQ+ community then you’d be advocating for Biden to step down.

    Gigagoblin ,
    @Gigagoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    hi, am part of said community. i’ll gladly punch a fascist in the face for being fascist. it’s like a cancer, essentially; you give it any room to breathe & it will take over the whole thing. just look at what happened to the skinhead movement. but, yeah, they want us dead or in camps anyway & civil discussion obviously doesn’t work when fascist philosophy only works if everyone involved is actively playing dumb & as such, not playing by the same rules as everyone else.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Gigagoblin , (edited )
    @Gigagoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    yeah & i’ll see you banned eventually, just like all the other prominent bad faith actors here. you’re not half as special or clever as you think you are.

    e : i love you had to slip in some BLM misinfo there. i’m not even from the US lol

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Is that your reaction to deal with people not in the cult, to ban them… silence them even? Good thing you’re not from Palestine, or you’d be wondering why Biden is helping kill children.

    eldavi , (edited )

    it’s like people are capable of growing and learning.

    except biden didn’t learn or grow; he has a long history of going with the status quo and the status quo currently says that gays are okay and if gays were not okay tomorrow with the status quo; biden would tow that line as well.

    and i wish i had your privilege of ignoring the recent past; we’ve learned from it because it was so painful and we’re still trying to recover.

    Feathercrown ,

    You don’t, but at this point if they haven’t chosen the correct side it’s kind of on them.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    So you attack them & tell them it is their fault that you’re attacking them? Kind of like how an abuser would blame the abused?

    Feathercrown ,

    Your analogy assumes innocence. In fact, it’s so strained that I have to believe you’re operating in bad faith here, or made a lapse in judgement.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    It assumes that you’re the instigator of physical violence.

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    So do you have a link or somewhere I can learn more about your domestic terrorist organization?

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    So you keep this information stored on your local computer? Isn’t it dangerous?

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Who am I jerking off here?

    davidagain ,

    The rest of the conversation is missing, but you seem to be looking for volunteers to be jerked off by you?

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    No the person that removed their comments advocating for violent activities said I should find someone else to jerk off.

    davidagain ,

    You were jerking them off for advocating violence? That is one weird kink you’ve got there.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    No I was advocating against it. I assume you know that. Do not lie about me and make things up.

    davidagain ,

    You would never stoop so low as to deliberately misinterpret someone online? Not even it it was funny?

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Not that I’m aware of.

    davidagain ,

    You make it clear they’re not welcome in the community, by force if necessary, and you let them back in once they’ve shown they can be trusted to be a member of the community again. IF they show they’ve changed.

    I’ve been on a committee of people making this decision more than once. Rarely do people change enough to be welcomed back. Community self policing is the only way to really protect yourself when the government shows they wont.

    Where do they go? Do you propose that America has red states where only conservatives should live & blue states where liberals can live? Do you want to put over half of voters in concentration camps?

    This you?

    Regarding your lack of awareness:

    Oh no, the slipperiest of slopes attached to nothing but pure conjecture! I will never be hungry again with all of the words you just put into my mouth!

    You don’t think this was an attempt to raise awareness of your deliberate misinterpretation?

    Their point was that kicking someone out of a small club isn’t the same as kicking them out of the state.

    Your exaggeration of their point is what made it bad, not the point itself. That’s what the slippery slope fallacy is.

    You’re still unaware that you misinterpreted them online?!

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    I didn’t misinterpret them. Is it not true that over 40% of voters support Trump and that they are accusing Trump supporters of being fascist. Where do you expect those people to go if you think you’ll just kick them out of the communities where they live?

    davidagain ,

    You did misinterpret them. What kind of a community has a meeting to exclude folks for anti LGBT views? I tell you this, it wasn’t a housing project or a city, certainly not a state, it was surely a support group or similar. Your reading comprehension cannot be this bad.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re being disingenuous and inventing narratives. Why don’t you go ahead and post permalinks to where you claim I misinterpreted them. They weren’t taking about a small club. They were talking about kicking Trump supporters out of their communities.

    davidagain ,

    They said:

    You make it clear they’re not welcome in the community, by force if necessary, and you let them back in once they’ve shown they can be trusted to be a member of the community again. IF they show they’ve changed.

    I’ve been on a committee of people making this decision more than once. Rarely do people change enough to be welcomed back. Community self policing is the only way to really protect yourself when the government shows they wont.

    Again, what kind of a community has a meeting to exclude folks for anti LGBT views? I tell you this, it wasn’t a housing project or a city, certainly not a state, it was surely a support group or similar.

    You posted your “where do you think they’ll go if they’re kicked out of where they live” straight under that quote. Like, directly under it. The previous time you read that as being kicked out of their state, again, directly underneath.

    I don’t know, maybe when you hear people criticise conservatives it makes you so mad that you don’t read what they actually write. I find it hard to come up with other rational explanations for your statements.

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Again, you’re being disingenuous. I asked for you to permalink to my comments. People can then look at the context and see for themselves that you’re a liar. The individual I responded to was clearly under the impression that all Trump supporters are fascist and should be removed from the communities from which they live and reside.

    davidagain , (edited )

    You’re being disingenuous. I’ve pasted exactly what they wrote, twice, and it’s only yesterday they said it. I’ve noticed that the moderators delayed some of your comments, but you and I know I’m not lying about your response. You’re denying they said what they said because I didn’t give you your precious hyperlink. Everyone can see you’re not arguing in good faith.

    memfree ,
    @memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

    Reminds me of a piece that is gone – but the below rephrase comes from here: mstdn.social/

    “The Paradox of Tolerance disappears if you look at tolerance, not as a moral standard, but as a social contract.

    If someone does not abide by the contract, then they are not covered by it.

    In other words: The intolerant are not following the rules of the social contract of mutual tolerance.

    Since they have broken the terms of the contract, they are no longer covered by the contract, and their intolerance should NOT be tolerated.”

    davidagain ,

    I like that. That’s a helpfully consistent way of framing it.

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