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ID411 ,

Something somethi free market blah blah blah.

Death to capitalism

Allonzee ,

Capitalism is clearly going to death us first.

toofpic ,

Yeah, automakers pose a threat to automakers!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah well, fuck the American auto industry for not joining the 21st century.

Stamau123 ,

It’s like when they dragged their feet making fuel efficient cars after the oil crisis

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

I remember that time, when American car makers screamed bloody murder because Honda was killing them. Good times.

Kyle_The_G ,

Ya if they want to survive its time to adapt and compete. This is what complacency sets up and I don’t feel bad for them at all. They saw this coming and probably just sat there expecting a bailout.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

This is what happens when old fucks hold onto power and don’t change with the times.

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

This is what happens when the one ring of profits rules them all. US automakers don’t give a shit about anything other than their bottom line.

Pat_Riot ,
@Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

Or , hear me out, what if US auto makers stop trying to force overpriced oversized trash on us? Maybe try to compete?

Grimy ,

They get a lot of bribes from the oil industry. This is about sabotage, not competition.

Nomecks ,

BURN THE HERETIC

Pat_Riot ,
@Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

Wet blankets don’t burn well

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Electric cars in the US are more expensive mostly due to higher costs of overhead. For example, we have a minimum wage, and China uses forced labor.

Good luck buying anything made in the US for less money than on AliExpress.

Edit: Is this really the same group of people that want US businesses to divest from Israel, defending products made with the slave labor of Uyghurs?

In Xinjiang, the government is the trafficker. Authorities use threats of physical violence, forcible drug intake, physical and sexual abuse, and torture to force detainees to work in adjacent or off-site factories or worksites producing garments, footwear, carpets, yarn, food products, holiday decorations, building materials, extractives, materials for solar power equipment and other renewable energy components, consumer electronics, bedding, hair products, cleaning supplies, personal protective equipment, face masks, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, and other goods—and these goods are finding their way into businesses and homes around the world.

state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region/

Pat_Riot ,
@Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

Wow, tell us how indoctrinated you are.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Do you mean informed?

In Xinjiang, the government is the trafficker. Authorities use threats of physical violence, forcible drug intake, physical and sexual abuse, and torture to force detainees to work in adjacent or off-site factories or worksites producing garments, footwear, carpets, yarn, food products, holiday decorations, building materials, extractives, materials for solar power equipment and other renewable energy components, consumer electronics, bedding, hair products, cleaning supplies, personal protective equipment, face masks, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, and other goods—and these goods are finding their way into businesses and homes around the world.

state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region/

In other words, the U.S. content of “Made in China” is about 55%. The fact that the U.S. content of Chinese goods is much higher than for imports as a whole is mainly due to higher retail and wholesale margins on consumer electronics and clothing than on most other goods and services.

www.frbsf.org/…/us-made-in-china/

It is simply more economical to use forced labor than to pay minimum wage. It results in lower price points on Chinese branded products, and higher margins on US branded products produced in China. This problem is not exclusive to automotive manufacturing, as illustrated in the above research article.

To be clear on my personal opinion, I’m not recommending US industry over foreign. I drive a Hyundai. I’m specifically speaking against Chinese industry, just as Biden’s tariffs are not applicable to imports aside from China.

conditional_soup ,

Dude, there is just no way on earth that automakers are making razor thin margins on $80,000 F250 extended cab super duty pavement princesses that are basically just minivans in a trenchcoat.

disguy_ovahea ,

You can buy a Nissan Leaf starting at $28k. It’s made in US, Japan, and Mexico.

www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/…/leaf.html

afraid_of_zombies ,

Past tense. They are ending the production line this year. They just didn’t have the margin.

disguy_ovahea ,

Next would be the Mini EV. It starts at $30k. Still far less than your $80k example.

www.miniusa.com/…/electric-hardtop.html

afraid_of_zombies ,

Huh what 80k example?

disguy_ovahea ,

I’m sorry. Same thread, different commenter. My mistake.

Maggoty ,

Greely’s EX 30 was going to sell for mid 30k. We can absolutely compete, we just would rather not.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Mention the 6Billion dollar stock buyback plan GM announced this month.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Electric cars in the US are more expensive mostly due to higher costs of overhead. For example, we have a minimum wage, and China uses forced labor.

:-/

Is this really the same group of people that want US businesses to divest from Israel, defending products made with the slave labor of Uyghurs?

Americans are just mad that we have a perfectly good exploitable population at home.

disguy_ovahea ,

I agree. That’s also terrible. They work mostly in farming. If you can avoid these food brands, I suggest you do so.

There are plenty of automobiles manufactured in the US, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, Germany, and the UK that don’t use forced labor. I also recommend supporting those factories instead of China.

Also, your second link about Chinese retirement has nothing to do with Uyghur slave labor.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

There are plenty of automobiles manufactured in the US, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, Germany, and the UK

And they’re all complicit. BMW, Volkswagon, Jaguar Land Rover all source parts from China.

In fact, the entire US supply chain is reliant on Chinese parts.

Earlier this month, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) said it would be temporarily halting production at a plant in Kragujevac, Serbia due to a lack of parts from China, while Hyundai and Renault have done the same in South Korea.

You can whitewash your supply chain by slapping an western label on Chinese parts. But this isn’t demonstrating any kind of concern for labor rights or ethical insourcing. FFS, we won’t even let Volkswagon plants in Tennessee unionize.

Nevermind Uyghur slave labor. Americans can’t even bargain for better salaries. Its too much for our fragile economy to handle.

disguy_ovahea ,

That was true of those brands. They’ve since been pulling out of China, leaving abandoned factories that are now being used by the Chinese market. There are still plenty of other ethical options for automobiles.

Many nations are cracking down on imports related to Uyghur labor.

In December 2021, Congress passed, and President Biden signed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA) – the strongest tool the United States or any other country has forged in the fight against the atrocities of forced labor.

dhs.gov/…/enforcing-uyghur-forced-labor-preventio…

politico.eu/…/china-forced-labor-ban-europe-us-uy…

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

They’ve since been pulling out of China

Firstly, no they haven’t. US trade with China has only ever increased year-over-year going back to the 1960s.

Secondly, our hunger for cheap labor is sending us to penal colonies across the rest of the Pacific Rim. This isn’t something that began or ended with a single factory in a single country.

Many nations are cracking down on imports related to Uyghur labor.

They’re not. The business is just being laundered through front companies.

Upon the review of the ASPI report, Skechers said it contacted senior management at Luzhou prior to conducting two additional audits of the factory — none of which revealed any indications of forced labor. Luzhou, however, did confirm that members of the Uyghur ethnic group did comprise a portion of its workforce but were employed under compliant terms and conditions.

Shoving thumbs in my ears and saying “I don’t see the non-compliance, its all fine actually!” and letting the provisions go completely unenforced.

And that’s before you get into direct sales through Ali Baba and Temu

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Again, I agree, but my comment was about automobiles. You have the habit of misrepresenting my point.

boydcoddingtonwheels.com/car-companies-pulling-ou…

iwkoeln.de/…/juergen-matthes-competitive-pressure…

ft.com/…/d88955d4-2bc8-476e-9cdb-882ca3c3b10d

reuters.com/…/us-lawmakers-press-automakers-cut-r…

As for other consumer goods, Biden has expanded Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 to include more imports.

ustr.gov/issue-areas/…/tariff-actions

Tariffs aren’t great solutions, but the only alternative would be outright banning. The latter would have a sudden and financially profound impact on American consumers.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Again, I agree, but my comment was about automobiles.

Nearly 40% of Honda’s automobile production took place in China in the last financial year.

Honda would continue to keep its supply chain in China for the domestic market in the world’s second-largest economy while building a separate one for markets outside of China, the Sankei said. It did not say where it got the information.

That’s not “pulling out of China”. That’s a sign of Chinese domestic automobile consumption rising.

Biden has expanded Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 to include more imports.

I haven’t seen much to suggest he’s enforcing it. These laws are consistently toothless, in the same way more and more of our regulatory system is toothless.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

You don’t want a giant ass pickup truck that drives like a tank, takes up 1.5 times the parking space and goes 8 miles on the gallon?

Pat_Riot ,
@Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

No, I want a light pickup from the 80s or 90s but with a warranty and a full size bed and no back seat. Y’know, something kinda utilitarian. A fucking Ranger is bigger now than an F-150 was in 2000. An F-150 is a goddamn SUV with a worthless 4 foot bed. What the hell is that good for?

wjrii ,

FWIW, you can order a V6 regular cab F150 work truck with an 8-foot bed. Still costs $40k, but it exists.

Ranger and Maverick can both haul plywood sheets with a few 2x4 slats in the stamped slots on the side of the bed and some tiedowns.

bamfic ,

lemmy.world/post/16986669

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

they had decades to prepare for this. if the past is any indication they would rather milk that cow to death and act surprised when it isnt a viable long term strategy.

SeattleRain ,

It’s not due to a lack of will. They can’t produce cars as cheaply because they’ve spent the last 50 years closing factories and buying back their own stock while China invested in their industrial capacity.

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