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Growing Oct. 7 ‘truther’ groups say Hamas massacre was a false flag

In city council hearings, protests and online, a growing movement with ties to Holocaust denial is effacing history in real-time

When she first heard about Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel, Mirela Monte was “appalled.” The South Carolina real estate agent and self-described holistic healer detests violence and is horrified by war and human suffering.

But as Monte read more in Uncensored Truths, a Telegram group with 2,958 subscribers active on foreign policy and the supposed perils of vaccination, her shock turned to anger. According to the forum, the news reports were wrong: Secretly, Israel was behind the massacre.

Monte now argues the Oct. 7 attack was a “false flag” staged by the Israelis — likely with help from the Americans — to justify genocide in Gaza. “Pure evil,” she said. “Israel is like a mad dog off a leash.”

The Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack is among the most well-documented in history. A crush of evidence from smartphone cameras and GoPros captured Hamas’s breach of the border — a strike Israel says left about 1,200 dead, the deadliest onslaught in the country’s history.

But Oct. 7 denial is spreading. A small but growing group denies the basic facts of the attacks, pushing a spectrum of falsehoods and misleading narratives that minimize the violence or dispute its origins. Some argue the ambush was staged by the Israeli military to justify an invasion of Gaza. Others say that some 240 hostages Hamas took into Gaza were actually kidnapped by Israel. Some contend the United States is behind the plot.

Non-paywall link

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s most likely the same as every time the US funded an extremist group. First they pump money into the Taliban to make them fight the Russians, but then it turns out the Taliban isn’t going to be their lap dog either.

Same with Iran, which America overthrew in 1953, and then 20 years later overthrew again to install their current Shah. It works for a little while but then backfires immensely.

Netanyahu supported Hamas because they created an opportunity for him to dismantle the moderate Fatah and use Hamas as an excuse to continue colonizing. But then it turns out that Hamas is even less controllable and is actually going to fight back.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

While I wouldn’t put it past Mossad to finance and encourage it to keep Bibi out of corruption court (because there’s nothing like a good war to distract people from domestic issues), this was all Hamas.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Growing group of morons tricked by Iranian propaganda.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

I’m as anti-Israel as all get out and even I think that’s a stupid fucking take.

Tremble ,

The weird thing is that the conclusion they have reached is probably not that far off. But how the fuck did they get there?

Pretty much everything IDF says is eventually proven to be a lie. United States does blindly support Israel, to the point where Netanyahu brags about not listening to us while also knowing full well the support will continue.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

How long until we see these loons on the Fediverse, you think?

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

They are here in this thread saying Israel stood down and gave Hamas money.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

Israel literally has given Hamas money in the past, though. Netanyahu has pursued a policy of 'divide and conquer', fearing Fatah so much that he has pursued a policy of strengthening Hamas.

It's only the actual event being a false flag that's insane.

JustZ , (edited )
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Has Isreal been doing a slow genocide for decades or making Hamas stronger? Pick a nonsense conspiracy and stick with it.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

... you do know what the phrase 'divide and conquer' means, right?

... right...?

nicetriangle ,

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence

Ferrous ,

That maxim starts to break down if you have at your disposal one of the most well-equipped and well-funded intelligence agencies in the world.

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

You could argue that Netanyahu let it happen (because he ignored warnings of an attack) but you would need substantial evidence before claiming that he orchestrated it.

snek , (edited )
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

If they mean Israel did it in the sense than Netanyahu kept funding Hamas and knew about the attack years/months/days earlier and did nothing to stop it, and many killed on October 7th were killed by chaotic IDF troops told to shoot anything that moves, then yes, in a way.

But no… They had to go full conspiracy. Netanyahu didn’t need to stage this, he just had to create the perfect circumstances for it to happen.

givesomefucks ,

It’s highly unlikely Israel made it happen…

But I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a Dick Cheney thing like 9/11 where they knew it was gonna happen, and did a cost/benefit analysis and decided it was better if it happened.

Netanyahu was letting literal suitcases of cash into Gaza so Hamas could continue to exist, it’s not much of a jump for them to ignore intelligence.

If they honestly didn’t see this coming, then they still need to replace their government. Best case scenario they’re incompetent

CaptainSpaceman ,

I mean, Bibi was allowing Qatar to fund Hamas, and even supplied briefcases full of cash to the Qatar diplomat to give to Hamas

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

At the urging of the international community and for humanitarian purposes.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu

dhork ,

My idle conspiracy theory is that Trump and his son-in-law sold a bunch of Israel’s sensitive defense info to MBS, where it somehow made it into the hands of Hamas. Hamas had some rather detailed intel on Israeli positions at the border and I wonder how they got it. Trump probably never intended for the massacre to happen, he just wanted to earn a quick buck.

I have no proof that Trump sold this, but we know how lax he was with this info, particularly concerning Israel. Heck, he might not have even sold it, all it would take is a few well-placed operatives at Mar-a-lago to take photos of the documents Trump had at his dinner table. That would have made it all even more tragic, because it would mean that Trump sold out Israel just to brag to his friends. Would that be better or worse than getting money for it?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

One of the reasons for the Hamas attack was Saudi moving to recognize israel and abandoning Palestine. Also Saudi is currently actively helping the israelis bypass the shipping blockade by transporting goods by truck from the port of UAE to israel through a company called TruckNet.

The Saudi’s don’t care about Palestine whatsoever. They just want to stack money, build clubs and drive fancy cars. They care as much about Palestine as Russians care about Ukranians, even though they often look the same.

The following nearby countries are currently actively helping israel (despite their leaders sometimes screaming differently):

  • Egypt
  • Jordan
  • Saudi Arabia
  • UAE
  • Turkey

The following are against:

  • Lebanon
  • Qatar
  • Iran
  • Yemen
dhork ,

I agree with your analysis. If any information did make it to Hamas from Trump, it likely wasn’t directly from MBS in a single step. But it’s possible there could have been some Hamas sympathisers somewhere in the Saudi government that sent it along.

Or, as I noted, the same info was available to anyone at Mar-A-Lago. All they had to do was plant someone on the wait staff there and embed a camera somewhere on their person…

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Saudi’s probably most influential ruler Faisal was assassinated in 1975 by his very Americanized nephew after blocking oil exports to America for the Palestinian cause. Faisal also nationalized the oil industry and refused to bend the knee to the west.

The assasination was most likely a CIA operation though that does still remain in conspiracy land for about 20 years until we get to see the blacked out lines in the documents.

After Faisa’s assasinationl more pro-America rulers were installed in Saudi. The current “king” MBS arrested many ministers that didn’t fall in line with him when he rose to power.

Throughout his rule MBS did not seem to specifically care for anything else than money. He very much cooperates with America and israel because they are rich, and Palestine is poor. While his population does not agree with this, he buys an insane amount of weapons from America so they can’t do much about it.

While a covert operation might have happened, the MBS government itself is unlikely to have acted against israel because as you can see they are actively aiding israel with Trucknet and other initiatives.

The only reason Saudi doesn’t help israel more openly is because their population isn’t very happy with them supporting a genocidal ethnostate slaughtering Muslims and many of these hypocritical governments are risking a revolution from their population the more openly they support israel.

4am ,

I mean, don’t America fund the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden back in the 80s since they were fighting against the USSR? Only to have it backfire when the turned against us, realizing they were just pawns in our game as we conducted operations elsewhere to fuck around with the balance of power in the world?

Lot of parallels here.

But I do think Hamas did Oct 7th. They even said they did it. However, I still think “yeah, what did Israel think was going to happen?” and “it doesn’t justify genocide” just like 9/11 didn’t justify leveling Afghanistan for 20 years.

givesomefucks ,

That was different…

America funded them to fight America’s enemies in a proxy war.

Netanyahu assisted other countries funding Hamas, when Hamas was trying to fight Israel. Because the threat of Hamas kept far right authoritarians in power in Israel.

They’re completely different situations…

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

My question is how many deaths were actually caused by Hamas when their goal was to capture living hostages. With the knowledge that tanks shelled civilian hostages to kill Hamas fighters it seems plausible that Israel could be responsible for many or most of the deaths.

We’ll never know unless there’s an independent UN investigation into Oct 7th

glimse ,

Hamas did a lot of killing on October 7th. It’s not like it wasn’t filmed…by multiple people including themselves

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

They certainly killed people, but now we know Israel also killed their own people. I want to see the breakdown.

snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

I would imagine many but not most were killed by the IDF. Then again, they are the ones with tanks and helicopters.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Certainly. But looking at the footage and pictures almost all Hamas fighters had AK’s, they certainly did not bring a million RPG’s

My current assumption is that every person with bullet wound or heavy grenade explosion was shot by killed by Hamas.

But most of those bodies completely burnt to a crisp were likely shot with IDF tank shots or hellfire missiles from the helicopters.

There is a reason that there were 250 Hamas soldiers burnt to a crisp that were initially counted as israeli deaths because they were next to hostages. Those Hamas fighters certainly didn’t all spontaneously combust and likely neither did the hostages next to them.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, yes. Everything is a false flag.

Candelestine ,
LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If there’s a fringe on it, apparently yes.

See ‘flag fringe’: splcenter.org/…/sovereigns-dictionary-peculiar

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There are sovcits among us

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That wouldn’t shock me.

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