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wathek ,

How long do you figure until smalltalk about the weather is an attack on someone’s political beliefsystem?

DecentM ,
@DecentM@lemmy.ml avatar

The fact that whoever sent the death threats only got a small fine is 100% insane

SeaJ ,

How pathetic do you have to be up make death threats against a fucking weather man?

TIEPilot ,

We’ve had an ice age.

What doesn’t say the orbit of the planet or its angle to the Sun can’t make the pendulum swing the other way?

I fine w/ going green, I wish we had more light rail in the US. It was nice when I worked in DC and got to read a book on the way into work. I was a hell of a lot more physically active.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The orbit of the planet or the angle of the sun have nothing to do with it. The billions of tons of carbon dioxide and methane we pump into the atmosphere does.

Or do you think that has no effect? If so, I’d love you to explain to me about the chemical neutrality of CO2 and methane.

TIEPilot ,

But we came out of an ice age w/o as you say “billions of tons of carbon dioxide and methane we pump into the atmosphere does.”

Something changed.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Temperature was going up gradually until the industrial revolution. Now it’s going up drastically. What changed is the amount of CO2 and methane we’re putting into the atmosphere.

Again, if you don’t agree, please explain how they are chemically neutral.

TIEPilot ,

So you admit that there outside factors that determine the temperature of the planet. Ok we are getting somewhere, and again I will reiterate I would like us to knock off pollution if we can do it sanely.

But what if the changes (outside man made) are exponential? As the the orbit changes or the tilt changes it goes up in orders of magnitude. Is this not possible? I work w/ spacecraft and orbits aren’t a constant. All matter/mass/celestial bodies in the solar system have gravitational influence and changes orbits.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m waiting for you to explain how CO2 and methane are chemically neutral. Please do so. Otherwise they have an effect on the atmosphere.

TIEPilot ,

Methane and CO2 are naturally formed compounds and like any compound in the atmosphere they have an effect. I was talking out other outside forces that could be accelerating these changes.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If they have an effect and we’re pumping tons of it into the atmosphere in a NOT natural way, then it sounds like that effect would be magnified greatly.

What effect do you think CO2 and methane have on our atmosphere?

TIEPilot ,

Again you are going off point, I posted could there be other factors? We got out of an ice age w/o human involvement as the Earth warmed, could there not be an exponential heating of the Earth that has nothing to do w/ co2/methane levels? Maybe this is the cycle of our planet.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Nothing to do with it? Ok, then again, what effect does putting a lot of extra methane and CO2 have chemically on the atmosphere? What is the resulting reaction? Unless, again, they are chemically neutral.

TIEPilot ,

So you are saying that there is not any possible way there are outside forces that could be part of the problem? Solar flares disrupt communications, the Earth doesn’t have a perfect orbit, we know the Earth tilts in alignment to the Sun (seasons) and the magnetic poles have flipped a few time. We also know when massive event happen like plate tectonic shifts and volcano mass ejections can make the earth wobble. But naw they couldn’t be a factor, we just have one answer…

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, I’m objecting to you suggesting that humans are not a factor. Without explaining the chemistry. I’m beginning to suspect you aren’t a climate scientist.

TIEPilot ,

Stop suggesting humans are the only factor. The fact you can’t accept that there are possibly other factors in play tells me you are also not a “climate scientist”. Something I never claimed to be, nor a chemist, so that’s a bit odd eh?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Tell me what you think: Are humans a factor- yes or no?

And no, I am not a climate scientist. I merely defer to them. And almost all of them say that humans are the primary factor in climate change. You seem to think you know better, so having expert knowledge in that area would seem to be a prerequisite.

CmdrShepard ,

All your possible outside causes can easily be observed and measured by modern humans. What plate tectonics and volcanic eruptions are causing the current heating? If our orbit or tilt around the sun has changed, why don’t you think we’ve noticed that?

Cranakis ,

We have one answer that we have any control over. The rest is pretty irrelevant. What point are you trying to make? Just and academic one? I’m not saying you’re wrong, just who fucking cares?

tallwookie ,
@tallwookie@lemmy.world avatar

technically, we’ve been in an ice age for the last 2.5 million years or so. it just gets slightly warmer or colder every few 10000 years

fne8w2ah ,

Literal wankpanzers, the whole lot of “conservatives”.

Trollmittens ,

As a non American it is always wild to hear such strangely internatilised concepts of how people see the world. This guy received emails saying it was a “liberal conspiracy theory on the weather”, calling climate change a “Biden hoax”. Does someone like that have no concept that this is an issue for the rest of us outside the USA? (Aka the majority of the world). And that it existed for prior administrations too!

lazynooblet ,
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

I don’t think people that spout death threats on climate change do much thinking at all.

tegs_terry ,

They probably destroy all surrounding thought as well.

dust_accelerator ,

Not destroy, but I think this would apply:

“In a vacuum, nobody can hear you think”

Cabrio ,

The vaccum is between their ears, they can’t even hear themselves think.

Cabrio ,

A well formed thought would kill these people as assuredly as an aneurism.

Nobody ,

Republicans have been actively attacking and undermining American schools for decades. These depleted schools have produced legions of people who can’t discern truth from falsity and have absolutely no curiosity about the rest of the world. Facebook and the television tell them liberals are bad and the cause of all their problems. They don’t question it.

ezmack ,

You’re all a part of the same chicom plot against freedom

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

People like this have basically no concept of the rest of the world at all. I have talked to many people who don’t understand there is a difference between China and Japan, and think Africa is a country. And they don’t care.

Most likely this person also never thinks about states in the US more than one state away from theirs. When I moved to New England as a kid I had teachers think I was from a foreign country because I moved from New Mexico… I’d have to explain “it’s the state between Arizona and Texas”, and then people would just look confused.

So, no news from the rest of the world filters into their brain at all.

WarmSoda ,

And we think we’re almost ready for space travel. Ugh

tallwookie ,
@tallwookie@lemmy.world avatar

for many Americans, there’s America and not-America, and that’s basically it. many of us are very insular - they may be aware of China, Russia, etc but don’t really think about them on a daily basis. much is the same for climate science, etc

WarmSoda ,

I want to know the mushbrain that gave you the downvoted.

Why did you do it? What part of that comment did you not agree with, how is it wrong?

CmdrShepard ,

These are the same people who called COVID a hoax perpetrated by Democrats even though it started in China and ravaged the entire planet. They’re insane and deluded from consuming too much propaganda.

RidcullyTheBrown ,

And called the vaccines a big farma thing even though they were free in most countries. Including in the US…

kautau ,

Uneducated people glean comfort from tribalism, not logic

algalorp ,

Yep. An authoritarian upbringing leads to a hierarchical belief system. Changing that requires addressing trauma that they avoided their entire lives, recreating their entire world view, and admitting they were wrong. Such a giant ask for these types of people unfortunately.

HRDS_654 ,

The simple answer is no. To them other countries may as well be a conspiracy; or alternatively they just don’t think beyond their own sphere of influence. Basically if they can’t see it it’s not real.

morgan_423 ,
@morgan_423@lemmy.world avatar

We’ll say it again, for the people in the back: it doesn’t matter whether you believe in potentially lethal threats or not.

They’ll still kill you. And if you ignore them and pretend they don’t exist, they’ll usually kill you much, much faster than if you were actively trying to mitigate them.

dyathinkhesaurus ,

… Covid-19 has entered the chat…

TwoGems ,
@TwoGems@lemmy.world avatar

These same morons chose to mass die of Covid. They will again in the next pandemic. And they will of climate change. Unless we organize and start electing people who pass climate laws pretty quickly.

axus ,

It was “only” a 2% mortality rate. About the voter uncertainty rate.

Sightline ,

Listen, and understand. Those climate change denying NPCs are out there. They can’t be bargained with. They can’t be reasoned with. They don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they will absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

tegs_terry ,

Nazgul, Ring Wraiths, neither living nor dead

RavenFellBlade ,

Have you seen this boy?

Sweet Child O’Mine intensifies

sapient_cogbag ,
@sapient_cogbag@infosec.pub avatar

Ignorance is bliss until reality punches your face in.

Kushia ,
@Kushia@lemmy.ml avatar

People used to do this to witches and others they decide they don’t like. Can really see how burning innocent people at a stake could take off in society sadly.

Saneless ,

Can someone explain to me why the average republican/right wing/religious nut are all against climate shit? Aside from being the dumbest people on the planet I’m lost finding another reason

TheDubz87 ,

They’re brainwashed zealots and Republicans in office are preaching that it doesn’t exist because they’re paid by corporations that would be hurt by green energy.

cultsuperstar Bot ,

They’re just against anything liberals are for at this point. If liberals like it, it must be bad! Just wait until the Republicans take away their Medicare and social security. But wait, the Republicans will blame the Dems for it and the hate continues. This country is pretty much fubar for decades.

Trollmittens ,

While that’s true I think it’s about why it has been made a political issue. If you can make out that it’s just a left v right opinion, it steers the conversation away from the damage that is being done and those that are benefiting from it. It’s great misdirection, because it means that the common person is doing the arguing on behalf of the corporations doing the polluting.

S_Roman ,

The oil lobby has paid copious amounts of money to propagandize the population, and to bribe republican politicians to continue their policy of laissez-faire.

SkySyrup ,

TBH I feel this is the main reason - a lot of “protests” in Germany (where I live) which consist of a small group of people that glue themselves to streets and runways; there is so much reporting on these, it feels very pushed.

See: “Letzte Generation”

lazynooblet ,
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

Capatilism at is finest

Blackmist ,

These people start with one crazy idea, pop into an internet/Fox news rabbit hole, and come out with all the crazy ideas.

If you fall for one, you can fall for any.

MelonTheMan ,
@MelonTheMan@lemmy.world avatar

Not to get overly philosophical or anything, but who you are as a person and what your ideas are come down to your experiences. For me, I spend time fixing/causing programming problems at work, talking with people, doomscrolling lemmy/mastodon, playing video games and watching shows.

For a portion of the population, they are sitting and watching fox news for hours upon hours a day. Even if you are resistant to a view point, your brain is not capable of 100% rejecting a message that is being sledgehammered in to you over and over again. If Fox news or other shit media is your experience, it would be hard to think of the world in a way that doesn’t conform to what they tell you. It will be incremental at first, you’ll reject 95% of a message that doesn’t conform to your previous ideas, but maybe concerned face newscaster has a point about the border. “We can’t let everyone in” you might reason. All to make your more malleable to the next crock of shit they serve up.

The more I think about it the grosser it is. Just a mass of blond ladies telling you minorities and people who care about the environment are out to change your way of life. You way of life - which is sitting on a couch watching blond ladies spouting lies to you. I’m sure there’s some sick mental illness issues floating around here.

I used to work at a bank that had fox news on all day and it was horrible, but I’m positive some of my viewpoints from then were shaped by that experience, despite me knowing it was a shit entertainment channel.

Buddahriffic ,

I’d guess that leaded gas played a role.

Also, the truth has progressed much further than what many are willing to swallow at once. Not only is our way of life currently potentially leading to an extinction level destabilization of the climate and life cycles that we depend on (which also implies we’re not as important as some religions would lead us to believe), but the Euro-American way of life has been fucking things up for centuries or even millennia in the past. The only way to avoid accepting that our past is full of normalized evil is to bury your head in the sand and say everything is fine.

And add in some racism where they want to blame entire groups for actions of individuals and that line of reasoning says that you must also be to blame for the actions of your ancestors.

And then there’s the human tendency to double down when challenged, which makes it even harder to later change your position, because that doubling down can involve saying or doing things that does directly implicate you in some of that evilness. Or making ridiculous claims to “express certainty” like “if x is true, I’ll do y” where y is something no one would want to do or would even expect someone to do as part of a debate. When you behave like an idiot, changing your mind requires you to accept how much of an idiot you behaved like.

And there’s also group momentum. When the group sees dissenters as deserving hate and violence, it makes it harder to change the group’s direction. Especially if there’s members that don’t really care about the philosophy but are just looking for a “good excuse” to be violent or hateful. It’s not rare to see people treat former allies even worse when they turn compared to those who were never on their side. “Traitor” is one of those labels that can entice a negative reaction like “murderer” or “rapist”, even though it boils down to “person who changed their mind about something they once supported with others”.

So we might, collectively, have too much baggage to stop this train headed for the cliff before we can tell if the track curves to follow the cliff or just goes straight off. And if we do go off that cliff, don’t doubt that, on the way down, those fucking idiots will be loudly complaining that there was no way they could have known and that we should have told them.

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

True religious nuts (in other words, 10-15% of the population) believe that nothing at all matters because Special Jesus is coming back any day now. So, the more fucked up things get, not only does it not matter since it’s “THE END TIMES!!”, but also things being worse just proves Jesus is coming back soon.

Your average angry conservative is pissed off about it for a couple reasons. One, “think tanks”, Fox, Limbaugh and other propaganda organizations have been paid by the fossil fuel industry to spread disinformation about it and explicitly tell them it’s a “hoax” for decades. Then, being “conservative” literally means resisting change, so replacing a gas-guzzling truck that smells like complete shit and emits tons of pollution is upsetting to them just because it’s different. Also, many conservatives are super sensitive and get very upset if someone says they should do something different because they feel like they’re being chastised or “someone thinks they’re better than me”. Same reason they hate stuff like being vegan or eating gluten free.

Saneless ,

I’ve been saying this a lot lately, but we really, really shouldn’t be listening to a death cult whose goal is to die so they can be happy.

In all seriousness, they just get mad when people enjoy things they don’t understand. They feel out of the loop and the butt of the joke or deep down know they are missing out and their life choices are stupid, and being severely insecure as it is, this really bothers them even more

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

It’s scary how many people who have those beliefs are in positions of power - thinking things like they have to do this or that with Israel to hasten the “Second Coming” and the end of the world.

Dingus93 ,

If they cant tell you why then i doubt we can lol

BradleyUffner ,

If the Democrats express support for a concept, Republicans MUST be against it. Their entire identity is based around taking the most extreme version of the polar opposite thing the Democrats express.

Saneless ,

Some ultra conservative nut posted on Nextdoor, a hyper local Facebook if you never heard of it, about some crazy claims some state ballot initiative will bring

Crazy shit, like parents will have their kids taken to perfo gender reassignment against their will. The vote is about our state constitution % needed to change, but facts never got in the way of conservative dreams

Someone replied “you would vote to put all conservatives in jail if a single liberal were against it” and yeah, I bet she would

Haibane ,

But this soon provoked angst from some viewers, who grumbled that he should “stick to the weather”. Then, last July, he started getting a string of emails that included threats against his life.

That’s just the entire right wing in a nutshell. Anything that challenges their worldview is ignored and mocked, and if you make them look at it for too long they threaten to murder you. Facts do not exist for Republicans in the same way they do for everyone else. They live in a bubble where they are right and everyone else is wrong. No exceptions.

solarzones ,
@solarzones@kbin.social avatar

Republicans in the same way they do for everyone else. They live in a bubble where they are right and everyone else is wrong. No exceptions.

You could say the same for many Americans, not just republicans in my experience. Its like a stew of immaturity and ignorance.

TheDubz87 ,

The whole country seems to be polarized left/right, red/blue. Their side is right about everything and the other side is wrong about everything. That’s where American politics has led us. Culture war to keep us from starting a class war.

lolcatnip ,

Have you paid any attention to what the sides actually say?

TheDubz87 ,

More a question of what they do than what they say. They can say everything in the world I want to hear, but to follow through? That comes to a stop when their corporate pocket liners threaten to remove their funding.

lolcatnip ,

Well, one side is promising to take away a bunch of people’s rights, and they’re certainly following through on their promises.

Democrats suck when it comes to simping for the rich, but when it comes to civil rights, the rule of law, and respect for democracy, the parties could not be more starkly different

TheDubz87 ,

Well yeah they’re regressive religious zealots. As I said in another comment somewhere else in this thread. Civil rights and respect for democracy I will agree with. Rule of law applies to none of our government. 97 members of Congress last year reported trades in companies influenced by their commitees. They were not all Republicans. This is a conflict of interest and they should be removed.

I’m not railing on one side or the other, I have liberal viewpoints and I have conservative viewpoints. I’m railing on the government as a whole. It needs to be rebuilt. My initial point was that everyone is super polarized and that is a problem that needs to be fixed before anything else gets fixed.

Case in point, this thread. I make a comment criticizing Republicans = +20. I make a comment criticizing Democrats = I don’t even know, like -45 at this point?

People here are obviously polarized to the left. Granted, yes Republicans in office are bat shit crazy anymore, there is zero tolerance for any criticism towards the other side. And that just blinds anyone from paying attention to real matters. Half the people I know just treat it like a sports team they support. And this is why I generally stay away from discussing politics and have learned my lesson about posting anything political here.

lolcatnip ,

Rule of law applies to none of our government.

Again, you’re overlooking a huge difference. Yes, both sides benefit from a legal loophole that let’s them engage in insider trading. But one party tried to literally overthrow the government because they lost an election and then seamlessly pivoted to lying constantly about the results of the election. One party’s leading candidate for president is literally promising institute party political purges of civil servants if he’s elected. One party has a bunch of heavily armed rednecks swearing personal loyalty to its leader. Do you think insider trading is even worth talking about when that other shit is happening right out in the open?

TheDubz87 ,

Yep and what do you think is gonna happen to Trump or any other member of Congress that took part for all of that? Nothing, because the rule of law doesn’t apply to them. The Democrats won’t push hard enough and the Republicans will whip their moron fan base into more of a frenzy. The point I’m trying to convey is the whole system is fucked and needs to be undone and rebuilt. Climate change doesn’t actually matter a damn to either side while they’re busy fighting each other and trying to find new ways to line their pockets. Hell several Dems disrupted votes on green deals because they have a stake in fossil fuels. The government should be serving its people and their interests, not fighting itself.

I’m done posting here, off to look at pictures of dogs.

reversebananimals ,

Climate change is real. Doesn’t matter how political or non political you are. If one side is using politics to try and say its not real, that’s not a “both sides” issue. That’s an issue with the side that’s denying reality.

TheDubz87 ,

I never said it wasn’t real. And they don’t need to say it’s not real, they vote where the money is. Several Dems have stood in the way of green deals passing in the past. The infighting within the democratic party will be the death of it, while the bat shit crazy Republicans will just continue boosting their moronic fan base. This is the reality of our government. It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

The only politician I’ve even remotely resonated with is Sanders, and the DNC made for damn sure he didn’t make it in there.

reversebananimals ,

All of your whataboutism is pointless. The Republican party’s position is that climate change isn’t real. There’s no two sides - nothing Democrats do is causing Republicants to say climate change is a hoax. Republicans are saying reality is fake all on their own. They are wrong. And they are threatening to kill people for saying reality is real. They are wrong about climate change.

xthedeerlordx ,

The false equivalence is so tiring. There is one side that has consistently been against the scientific consensus on everything from vaccines to climate change to gender/sex/orientation etc. The faux open-mindedness of the “but both sides are bad” is just lazy cowardice not wanting to admit it. One side can be wrong on a given issue, and people can still be ignorant. It’s not mutually exclusive.

TheDubz87 ,

Yes, one side is pretty much full evil, but how many politicians in congress on both sides come to a halt on progress when their pocket liners are threatened. This is a game to all of them. Corporations run this country using every politician in our 2 party system as their puppets. How much insider trading goes on, who’s being paid by who? Our entire system needs to be burnt down and rebuilt for anything to function as it should.

wathek ,

That’s not gonna end well without a viable and executable alternative. Usually you’ll end up with a lot of chaos, some party promising to ease it, followed by that party turning out to be a dictatorship.
Frankly, it’s amazing we have something close to a democracy at all.

grue ,

The false equivalence is so tiring.

…which is exactly why they do it, of course. People arguing on the side of science have to make sound arguments in order to persuade, but all the reactionaries have to do is to frustrate their opponent into giving up on the discussion and they win by default. It’s fundamentally dishonest and toxic.

reversebananimals ,

Except climate change IS real, and if you say its fake, you are wrong. Lol. Its not an opinion. What you’re positing here has nothing to do with the reality.

wathek ,

And a right wing person can take that sentence and turn it around. They have a whole lore to back up the claim too.
When you dig deep enough into the claims, it becomes clear which is fact. Most people don’t have the time to do that so they stick to what’s in their beliefsystem or fits within it.
They think people who believe in climate change are brainwashed zombies, in an ironic backward twist. This also seems to be the case with many things and it’s probably intentionally done by the propagandists.

MyOpinion ,

These worthless GOP/Nazi morons are a plague on the universe. They live in a delusional world of stupidity.

beesyrup , (edited )
@beesyrup@lemmy.world avatar

Fear of measurable data? This whole post-truth, distorted religious opposition to observable, measurable data is really fucked.

SuperSoftAbby ,
@SuperSoftAbby@lemmy.world avatar

Welcome to the modern dark ages.

youCanCallMeDragon ,
@youCanCallMeDragon@lemmy.world avatar

I thought this was a meme at first. We live in the worst timeline.

net00 ,

I always wonder in these cases where idiots lash out denying climate change that deep down they do it as a coping mechanism, because if they accepted it exists it would quickly weigh down on them how fucked up our environment is.

By denying it they don’t have to think about the world about to go to shit. Maybe that’s why people still have kids.

Yearly1845 ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    ShakyPerception ,

    I remember talking to an adult about religion when I was in high school, and they straight up told me, “the only reason people are nice to each other is so they can get into heaven, without Jesus, there is no motivation for people to be kind, so we have to spread the gospels.”

    I was horrified, but all of a sudden, my understanding of the world view for a lot of people just clicked into place

    Saneless ,

    These people are so deranged that if they have a single value overlap with “the libs” they lose their shit. If they can’t be polar opposites they don’t know how to handle it

    Wanderer ,

    You seen behind the curve?

    I thought it was going to be a “science” documentary about flat earth. But it actually turned into more of a psychology documentary and is a tiny bit similar to what you are talking about. Why they believe and don’t change their mind.

    dhork ,

    Why do so many conservatives resort to intimidation, “death threats”, and violence to reinforce their beliefs? The current Conservative movement seems to be based as much on fear and retribution as anything else. Meanwhile, they get their panties in a bunch when someone calls them “deplorable”…

    raltoid ,

    Why do so many conservatives resort to intimidation, “death threats”, and violence to reinforce their beliefs?

    It’s the conspiracy theory mindset:

    They convince themselves they are geniuses because they “know” something scientists deny, and they “saw through the lies”, etc.

    So when somone they previously listened to speaks against the conspiracy, all they hear is someone they trusted calling them stupid. And they project their own self-hatred onto that person.

    nostalgicgamerz ,

    Because that’s how fascist nationalism works

    Chadus_Maximus ,

    It would work on them. Why would it not work on you? Because the threat is not dire enough? We’ll make it more dire then.

    HandOfDoom ,

    When you don’t have the truth at your side, you gotta resort to something else.

    Saneless ,

    You’re talking about people who have never had the intelligence or sense to win an argument with facts or anything in that sludge pit they call a mind

    Intimidation and violence is their only resort for people to nod along

    AssPennies ,

    I’ve been told that a lot of irrational anger has its roots in control, including lack of control.

    If that’s true, then I think those that quickly resort to violence in defense of their ideology, do so since they fear losing control of how they hold that ideology in high esteem.

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