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middlemanSI ,

They should be ashamed. This was the point all along, nothing new. To exterminate and displace people for more military bases and control. Shame. And the world is supporting this shit. Noone is safe, they will make sure. Fuj

Rapidcreek OP ,

Apararently October 7th never happened then.

Goferking0 ,

Their security was amazing at ignoring issues

middlemanSI ,

*instructed

SCB ,

“That woman shouldn’t have walked down that alley”

Such a great look for you man

Goferking0 ,

More like police notified of crime, ignored it then shot the perpetrators, victims and hostages

middlemanSI ,

Oh it happened, convenient right?

SCB ,

This is how you avoid another terror org seizing power in the vacuum after Hamas is removed.

HikingVet ,

No, this is how you create car bombs in residential areas, suicide vests in crowded markets, and more abductions with fewer reunions.

SCB ,

This has already happened

HikingVet ,

Which is how we know it will get worse with the actions being taken

SCB ,

I very strongly disagree that taking away the ability for your enemy to make war on you puts you in a more dangerous situation.

This war has already happened. You can’t un-fuck a chicken. If there was no war, then I think you’d have a lot more ground to stand on here.

HikingVet ,

Every place that is occupied gets more partisan violence.

This isn’t opinion, it is a lesson learned during every occupation.

SCB ,

Gaza was already occupied. Step outside your thought pattern and consider what I’m actually saying.

HikingVet ,

Which further makes my point.

An occupied territory with partisan violence gets more occupation, which gets more partisan violence.

Do you work for an occupying force, because that’s the only way occupation makes sense.

SCB ,

No I just didn’t bring my personal emotions and biases into this discussion. One merits alone, you have to have a plan for after this war, and “our bad, we’re leaving” is the worst of those options.

That’s why I said

This war has already happened. You can’t un-fuck a chicken. If there was no war, then I think you’d have a lot more ground to stand on here.

HikingVet ,

No I just didn’t bring my personal emotions.

Projection

“our bad, we’re leaving” is the worst of those options.

Occupation is not going to solve this issue either.

Lets wind the clock back to The Troubles. There wasn’t a military solution, it was a diplomatic one.

Funny how partisan violence died down real quick when Sinn Fein was invited to the table in good faith.

SCB ,

Lets wind the clock back to The Troubles. There wasn’t a military solution, it was a diplomatic one

Can’t do this while terrorists govern and removing terrorists from governance is literally what this war is.

The Gazan conflict is a substantially more complicated problem than the Troubles.

Insults don’t work on me.

HikingVet ,

Insults don’t work on me.

Wheres the insult?

The IRA are a terrorist organisation, Sinn Fein was the political party that had deniability. There was terrorism happening in while the negotiations for the situation they are in now were happening.

I’m not saying negotiate with Hamas, but I am saying increasing the military presence there while restricting more freedoms is the wrong thing to do as is evidenced by history.

SCB ,

Sinn Fein was the political party that had deniability.

This is the difference. Hamas is literally founded on the genocide of Israel, and as the government of Gaza, the sole political party. When their position is vacated, if the prevailing opinion of Gazans has not changed (and the time since the Oct 7 massacres has definitely not helped that) you’ll just get a different terror org running the show.

I am saying increasing the military presence there while restricting more freedoms is the wrong thing to do as is evidenced by history.

They have to help rebuild or they will be in a worse position. Sometimes, as a leader, you have no good choices and must pick a least bad choice.

Even saying this, I think we both know Israel will fuck up that last part. Their leadership sucks and they’ll do a bad job and round and round we’ll go. That’s why this situation sucks so much.

HikingVet ,

We both know that Israel’s rebuilding plans means more Palestinian displacement.

And this is a bad situation of the IDF’s making.

Military occupation isn’t the answer. And at this point there are no good answers as Palestine has been forced into a failed state by Israel.

SCB ,

We both know that Israel’s rebuilding plans means more Palestinian displacement.

I very strongly disagree with this statement, based on past two-state offerings by Israel.

And at this point there are no good answers as Palestine has been forced into a failed state by Israel.

Here we agree tho. We are discussing which shit sandwich is most palatable.

HikingVet ,

I very strongly disagree with this statement, based on past two-state offerings by Israel.

As if Israel hasn’t consistently taken land through settler occupation for decades.

VentraSqwal ,

Israel hasn’t actually wanted a two state solution since Rabin. They pretend to offer it then withdraw it the second something goes wrong, which they goad into happening on purpose by doing things like continuing increasing West Bank occupations while negotiating, or propping up Hamas to do a terrorism while negotiating, so they have an excuse to stop negotiations.

Maggoty ,

This has literally never worked. Occupation forces in opposition to the local populace always create more violence, not less.

Strawberry ,

No, how you do that is by enfranchising and giving equal rights to the people suffering under apartheid

SCB ,

Israel didn’t rob Gazans of the right to vote. Hamas did

Goferking0 ,

Yes. Both Isreal and gazans are victims of hamas. That doesn’t mean idf can keep punishing everything in Gaza for hamas

SCB ,

That doesn’t mean idf can keep punishing everything in Gaza for hamas

this ship sailed in late October when Israel decided to pound the fuck out of Gaza - a decision everyone (especially Hamas) knew they’d make, and a decision that everyone (especially Hamas) knew would worsen the problem.

Staying, helping rebuild, offering humanitarian aid, and functioning as an interim government is by far the best route forward, because there are no good routes forward.

Goferking0 ,

And when are they going to do that? Because they’ve yet to do that for those living on any land they have taken over

middlemanSI ,

Smart thinking. If there’s no one left, no one can take control from you…smart

Bakkoda ,

You can’t possibly be this delusional. This is in fact how you guarantee another Hamas.

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

At the end of this "war", the leadership from both sides should be sent to the Hague.

Rakonat ,

The first opinion of this war on Lemmy I can actually agree with.

Rapidcreek OP ,

That’s if he’s not in jail.

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

ngl I honestly wish he will end there

dumdum666 ,

Would be a good place for many people of his government

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