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Omega_Haxors , (edited )

I don’t like the implication that this leaves you with. There are two readings of this and neither are good:

  1. The meme is conflating Judaism and Zionism which is quite literally antisemitism.
  2. It implies that people should be antisemitic because Israel is bad, which is antisemitic on so many more levels.

Very likely the OP didn’t consider the implications of their meme but there’s also a chance they posted this in bad faith.

EDIT: Yeah this is a troll account, shame on everyone who upvoted this blatant nazi. Shit like this gives legitimacy to Israel’s crocodile tears.

speaker_hat ,

What massive war crimes did Israel commit?

Rawdogg ,

Let’s start with Nakba part 1 in 1947

speaker_hat ,

What massive war crimes did Israel commit in Nakba part 1 in 1947? provide a source.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_towns_and_villages_dep…

Sources are at the bottom, and there are links to information where massacres took place in the villages.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

git em

speaker_hat ,

Your source specifies 1947–1949 Palestine war, so I’ll focus on that.

Most of the villages in your map are marked as part of the Jewish state that was officially accepted by United Nations: …wikipedia.org/…/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_fo…

This was the only plan at the time the British mandate on Palestine was over.

According to the source above, the Arab leaders used arguments such as: “We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea.” or “We shall eradicate Zionism.”

In this war there were massive massacres from both sides: …wikipedia.org/…/Killings_and_massacres_during_th…

triplenadir ,
@triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml avatar

delibberately poisoning water wells warcrimey enough for you? palestinechronicle.com/operation-cast-thy-bread-u…

MystikIncarnate ,

IDK man, I’m just anti-war and anti-warmongering. Anyone who desires war or actively engages in it is kind of a bad person.

Nothing against soldiers, most of them are just trying to do their duty, usually oblivious to the real reasons behind their orders. They’re just the fodder for someone’s desire for conquest and power.

With all the amazing communication technology we have, so many still have so much difficulty actually communicating with others in a reasonable way. We’re all humans, and the vast majority just want to live their lives. The minority want everyone different to become like them.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

We have this technology but still only certain perspectives are allowed to be broadcast while others are ignored. I remember meeting people from Palestine when I was young, seeing how nice and chill they were and how they wished they could go back but it was too dangerous. I think it’s rare for anyone in the US to have met anyone actually from Palestine or Israel. It’s a lot more difficult to dehumanize someone you are friends with.

MystikIncarnate ,

I’m mainly referring to all the people who feel the need to start wars and such. I understand that the conflict when seen remotely is difficult to get any accurate information about, since the content is heavily filtered/edited by media outlets. I don’t think what they’re saying is necessarily false, but I don’t believe it’s the full story, and I never will.

This is why, as someone who doesn’t live there, has never visited there, and very likely will never find myself there, I’m going to abstain from placing any blame on anyone. I don’t know who is right or wrong or whatever, and to be blunt, I don’t have any stake in this, so my opinion doesn’t matter. The only message I want to convey here is that, killing other people, regardless of who they are, shouldn’t be something that anyone should feel the need to do. Defending yourself from an attack is understandable, but I don’t know enough, and can’t get enough information to know who escalated to violence first. Being able to talk and come to a compromise, and agree to that compromise in the interest of preserving human life and preventing violence, should always be the primary option, but even when that happens, some leaders seem so unreasonable that a violent conflict is inevitable. They refuse to communicate effectively and work with other people in a reasonable way.

For this conflict, I have no idea who sits on what side of that discussion or why the conflict has become violent, and I won’t pretend to know. My thoughts are with those who have been injured or killed in the conflict and their families; regardless of who they are.

happyhippo ,

Antisemitic != Anti Zionist

Brown_dude69 ,

Been banned on numerous subreddits for saying this.

Karyoplasma ,

Reddit is a huge circlejerk, there are no debates on the large subreddits. Funnily enough, they all hate the mainstream media, but somehow still hold the very same “brave” opinion that mainstream media outlets are pushing.

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

Over here I at least can say that billionaires deserve to get their heads cut off <3

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The saddest part is that people then blame the Jews for the actions of the Zionists.

Calling who criticize israel anti semitic, is actually extremely anti semitic.

It’s like calling people who criticize ISIS Islamophobes. Muslims don’t even want to be associated with ISIS, so using Islam to shield ISIS from criticism would be a giant insult to all Muslims.

Yet the media insults Jews like this on a daily basis.

nephs ,

Funnily enough, both ISIS and the Zionist State are terrorist organizations funded by the United States.

www.theguardian.com/…/us-isis-syria-iraq

OtakuAltair ,

I hate the word ‘Islamophobe’; it implies that being afraid of a regressive and violent religion like Islam (and most religions) is irrational.

The word should be ‘Muslimophobe’; most Muslims are sane people who don’t care about the intricacies of the religion.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Followers of Islam are Muslim, Muslims are Islamic, what is the distinction you are making? I guess you are saying to be against the religion versus the followers of the religion.

Either way though, Islam doesn’t have to be violent, people use writings from centuries ago to justify violence that would be there without their religion. Islam like Christianity and essentially all major religions preach peace and love for all people, even your enemies. They require doing good service like giving to charity to obtain salvation. Islamic groups have lived peacefully alongside other religious groups countless times.

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

It’s nice that religion can sometimes bring people together and bring peace, but I think we can or should mostly agree that organized religion should be phased out eventually. I personally believe it’s done more harm than good.

1847953620 ,

yes, but the prejudice comes from singling out a religion, especially in this case, it’s generally done to excuse aggressively xenophobic policy and opinions

Foofighter ,

I guess the distinction would be fear of a specific religion or belief and the other would be fear of followers of a specific belief?

lolcatnip ,

The suffix “-phobe” indicates aversion, not fear or irrationality. It’s much older than the psychological concept of a phobia.

Brown_dude69 ,

No one is blaming Jews and fuc Zionists.

banana_tree ,
@banana_tree@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m a little bit drunk but I saw blue/white flag and kept wondering how this relates to Finland at all

Karyoplasma ,

You must be very drunk to mistake the flag of Greece for the one of Finland.

Tlaloc_Temporal ,

Argentina who?

feedum_sneedson ,

Bless you

Tlaloc_Temporal ,

Argentina who?

banana_tree ,
@banana_tree@lemmy.ml avatar

I guess i must’ve just seen it in the corner of my eye as I read the text

Jimmyeatsausage ,

I saw this and figured, “I’ll show this bastard what evil Finland has done,” and I found some pretty appalling things…apparently, they don’t like small talk and can be emotionally reserved…and…and…its quite cold.

Monsters.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

They RAKE their forests!

Jimmyeatsausage ,

You know, people are saying it. Very smart people. If we could just rake our forests, we wouldn’t have the fires. They’re nice fires, though, very big. Some say the biggest. But if we’d rake, the fires wouldn’t happen. Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe, they don’t want to talk about the raking. I even asked some very smart people if we could turn off the sun to stop the fires, but I think the “global warming” elitists are worried about their solar. So we have the fires.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

Trump is quote worthy as hell:

“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@kbin.social avatar

Just don’t engage with anyone who unfairly accuses you of “antisemitism”. Antisemitism is indeed a serious problem, but it doesn’t apply here. There is a huge difference between criticizing a government and criticizing a religion, but some people can’t/won’t accept that.

People who casually throw the word “antisemitism” around are usually too emotionally invested to have a real conversation, and/or they’re just trying to put you on the defensive. Never be afraid to abandon a conversation. You are not required to respond to anything someone says.

TheFriendlyDickhead ,

The peoblem is that at demonstrations against Israel there are a lot of people who confuse that. So there actually is a lot of antisemitism happening. Some people who are strongly antisemitic just take the whole conflict as an excuse. Ofc not the majority, but there are allways idiots.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@kbin.social avatar

True. It happens in reverse, too. Sometimes people try to disguise hateful antisemitism as a valid political discussion.

greenskye ,

Basically any movement against bad people who happen to be part of a minority seems to get hijacked by bigoted people eventually.

pomodoro_longbreak ,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

It just means we have to do a bit of extra labour to make sure our movements are not infiltrated by shitbirds. I was just at a protest this weekend, and was pleased by the handful of signs I saw specifically denouncing anti-semitism.

Yes, it sucks that we have to throw in what feels like a parenthetical, while people are bleeding out under tonnes of rubble, but y’know, I guess that’s just where we’re at as a species right now.

TGhost ,
@TGhost@lemmy.ml avatar

Where do you come from all ?

Here in France, you even have the far right who is 100% racist and antisemitic , who start to be accepted by the average population, as defensor of the Jews and being seen as an wall to protect them…

Because here in France, they have made the movement against antisemitic a movement against Arabs and assimilated.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@kbin.social avatar

American here. The progressives among us despise the fact that bigotry is becoming more and more acceptable. We’re supposed to be outgrowing that shit, not encouraging it!

TGhost ,
@TGhost@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for tour answer.

Clearly for your last sentence :'(

Progressive are pretty dead here and have no visibility at all.

ArmokGoB ,

This whole thing has given antisemites plausible deniability to express their hateful views. It’s impossible to tell who is anti-Israel because of antisemitism and who is anti-Israel for other reasons.

Kanda ,

Not celebrating the war crimes is clearly anti-Semitism. Remember to pay your taxes so Israel can have more weapons

SuckMyWang ,

I’m not a fan of this war. Just a reminder of the massive war crimes hamas committed to reignite this though. Zero justification for either side to commit them but also seems strange ignoring theirs in favour of Israel’s

qnick ,
@qnick@lemmy.world avatar

People who celebrate the massacre of Jews are certainly criticizing the government.

eestileib ,

Ok, as soon as any of those show up I’ll be sure to treat them with the contempt they deserve.

seitanic ,
@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

There is a huge difference between criticizing a government and criticizing a religion

Agreed, but I don’t think it’s religious bigotry; I think it’s racial bigotry. Antisemitism is a form of racism. Do you think the Nazis gave atheist Jews a free pass?

blue_zephyr ,

Criticising Judaism doesn’t make you an anti-semite. There’s valid criticisms to be raised against most religions, this can be done without resorting to hostility or prejudice.

Jamil ,

Some can’t voice their views without putting their livelihoods on the line. We need protections for people to voice their opinions on Zionism without being labeled an anti-Semite.

stolid_agnostic ,

It also turns out that people get angry when you point out that Palestinians are Semites.

draughtcyclist ,

The worst part is I can’t tell if this if people genuinely thinking this and commenting, or if the comments are the results are part of an Israeli cyber operation to sway public sentiment after bombing civilians.

Xanthrax ,
@Xanthrax@lemmy.world avatar

You mean the opposite?

culpritus ,
@culpritus@hexbear.net avatar

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel

there are significant resources deployed to shape Israel’s image favorably, especially amongst the US public

CaptainBlagbird ,
@CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.world avatar

OP only has 3 posts and one comment, 3 of these 4 interactions are Anti-Israel/Pro-Palestine.

Top-commenter (jakob) has only that one comment and no posts in the profile.

You might have a point 🤔

Viking_Hippie ,

Could be that they both decided to make accounts because they had something important that needed saying.

While new/seemingly single issue accounts can be an aggravating factor when you suspect someone of being a troll or otherwise dishonest actor, it shouldn’t be considered suspicious for their first posts/comments to be a completely reasonable take on a controversial topic.

I don’t remember what my first comment on Lemmy was, but there’s a 50/50 chance it was something honest about a controversial political topic.

The other 50 are 30% chance of trying to be funny on a meme post and 20% commenting on how adorable an animal is.

alcoholicorn ,

We can infer that at least some portion of it is from your comment quietly getting downvoted to hell while nobody bothers to refute it.

speaker_hat ,

The IDF messages all civilians to evacuate before bomb their area, because of terror activity in it.

They do it digitally in SMS messages, loudspeaker announcement, and physical paper flyers over the air.

A civilian who doesn’t evacuate is either prisoner of Hamas, or a terrorist is self.

Source: …cnn.com/…/northern-gaza-evacuation-notice-cnntm-…

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That line of arguing might have worked a few weeks ago, but we have seen numerous times people were bombed in the place they were specifically told to evacuate to. 11,000+ people killed so far, over 4,000 children. If they aren’t terrorists then they are prisoners like you said, so why are they being slaughtered by IDF bombing?

jakob ,

There’s a difference between being antisemitic and anti Israel! People seem to forget these days. Being antisemitic because Israel is being shit is extremely stupid

solivine ,
@solivine@sopuli.xyz avatar

It doesn’t help that some actual anti semitic people are also using this as an excuse to chime in. Some protests about it in the UK right now.

UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT , (edited )

Yeah unfortunately part of the work is making certain those kinds of people don’t feel welcome in our movements.

someguy3 ,

I think it’s a strategy that used to work: call people anti-Semitic to get them to shut up. It worked after WW2 and the Holocaust but it doesn’t work anymore.

HikingVet ,

Well, the tactic seems to work to some extent.

kamenlady ,
@kamenlady@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, it still works and it’s even got an upgrade, it seems.

someguy3 ,

Depends on the generation. To younger generations I don’t think it works, as seen by the comment above.

merc ,

People seem to forget these days.

It’s not that they forget. You’re giving them too much credit. The reality is that being against many of the actions of a country is normal. People like Americans, like American movies, but are against many of the actions taken by the US military, the NSA, etc. People like Indians, but are against the actions of the Modi government. If you advocate against the policies of other governments you can get results. Your country can scale down its cooperation with them, or pressure them, or whatever. There’s always going to be some hatred of the country, hatred of the people of that country, hatred of the religion of the people of that country mixed in when the policies of any country are criticized. But, a reasonable person can focus on the main message.

By playing the “antisemitism” card, the Israelis who use it hope to insulate Israel from these normal kinds of criticisms. It’s really the only country that gets to play that kind of card, because it’s the only country founded in the immediate aftermath of a genocide, by the survivors of that genocide, and is the only place where Jews are a majority. They also get to pretend that any decision other than supporting Israel in everything it does is supporting the next genocide against Jews. The reality is that many of Israel’s actions are likely to encourage the next attempted genocide against Jews.

darkwing_duck ,

Aren’t Palestinians semitic?

dangblingus ,

Yes but humanity has agreed that the term “anti semitic” specifically means “anti jewish”. Like how if you say “I could care less” everyone understands you meant “I couldnt care less”.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That’s also why it’s spelled ‘antisemitic’ versus ‘anti-Semitic’, to avoid the idea that it means against Semitic people but against Jewish people specifically, replacing the earlier term “Judenhass” (Jew-hatred) in the late 1800s.

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