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Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

“I’ve made a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”

“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”

…

You’re still going to pay the other nine, right?

nevemsenki ,

If you still pay the other 9,why would you even look for a machine though?

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

Maybe the machine also does it with less waste and more consistently, the same reason woodworkers make jigs for complex cuts or identical parts.

nevemsenki ,

Still investing and taking recurring upkeep costs for something that may or may not yield more income.

specfreq ,
@specfreq@lemmy.world avatar

You could ask the other 9 to pay for it with you, the other 9 are also owners in a worker co-op.

Ranvier ,

So the ten men can all do a tenth of the labor now right?

Oh you’re going to fire nine, cut the tenth’s pay, and make him work even longer hours, and keep the vast majority of the profits for yourself, got it. That’s fine too I guess…

OurToothbrush ,

For more info on how automation works under capitalism, read chapters 15-16 of capital

Chapter 15: www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/…/ch15.htm

fruitSnackSupreme ,

There are a loooot of extra words in there, that seem unnecessary. I’ve read pages and pages now, and it’s just repeating meaningless words without reaching a conclusion. I have no idea what it’s trying to convey.

OurToothbrush ,

He does spend several pages worth of mobile phone screen just setting up his premises. What meaningless words are you referring to?

fruitSnackSupreme ,

I don’t have the patience to read 20 pages with no arrival at any conclusion. Is there somewhere I can just read a summary of the conclusions?

dudinax ,

Dude needed an algebra lesson or something. He’ll write three pages trying to explain an idea that could be expressed in two simple equations.

Rinox ,

“I’ve made bought a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”

“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”

“Why? I bought it to get more of the money to myself. Why would I pay for something and get nothing in return? Why would I just lose money for no reason?”

Seriously though, the dynamics are pretty clear, there’s no investment without the expectation for extra profit (even for a state. Invest in a new railroad with the expectation of higher economic activity and therefore more taxes). Otherwise it’s just charity

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

I hope for your sake that when the factory workers can't afford to feed their kids and they drag you from your home and try to beat you to death in front of your family they find that argument compelling.

Rinox ,

I’m one of the ten men, I’m just a worker like anyone else here, I can just use the little grey matter I have to try and understand the world and look at it with more objective eyes, instead of killing anyone who disagrees with me.

Fucking fascist pos. If you want to kill families go to Russia or Israel and look at how fun it is.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

What if the teen men are the ones who own the machine?

Rinox ,

That’s called a cooperative, they exist. You share both the profits and the risks of the enterprise. Not all enterprises succeed. Also, some of the men need to be the managers, accountants, sales etc. It’s not just about the factory workers.

Otherwise, more indirectly, they could be the shareholders of the company. Some companies even use shares as payment for their managers and top employees in order to encourage them to improve the profits of the company.

Otherwise they could just be both the owners and the only people working at a company. If the machine ends up generating lots of profits, they could all ten decide to retire and live off those profits while hiring an eleventh person to operate the machine, or they could reinvest in the company, buy even more machines, hire more people and bring in even more profits, like a complex game of cookie clicker.

Choose the one you prefer and try making it a reality if you want that.

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

But have you considered the following:

Capitalism good because freedom and innovation.

Bet you feel dumb now.

jlow ,

No because freedom and innovation have nothing to do with capitalism? If anything the opposite?

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s sarcasm friend, I know capitalism is basically the opposite of that.

JoShmoe ,

What! You mean I can’t make new things or grow because of financial predators?

Kase ,

Darn, what was I thinking /s

ChickenAndRice ,

I bet OP posted this using an iphone, I am very ismart vuvusela

/s

EncryptKeeper ,

The thing about capitalism is that it DOES promote freedom and innovation. The problem is that continuous innovation is rarely profitable so companies generally won’t bother innovating after a certain point and the text on the reverse side of the freedom coin is “free from consequences”

Capitalism is like… a good start to a much better economic system we haven’t figured out yet.

HowManyNimons ,

You’re not at all wrong. The problem is now we’re all so “bought in” (heh) to capitalism, and the power it has established its so entrenched, that the idea of iterating on it has become so close to literal blasphemy as makes no odds.

Johanno ,

Mhh yes freedom through capitalism. I love the freedom Apple gives me over their device that I bought but don’t own. Or when Samsung locks devices in mexico because they can and people in mexico dare to buy used phones.

Nahdahar ,

You don’t understand, that’s for your protection so you can feel safer and even more freedomery

fogetaboutit ,

Unregulated capitalism that made worse by the lack of QOL improvements by the govt is what made these new shitty electronics and tools profitable.

Krackalot ,

I see you like things that work. We’ve decided that we’ll break it, and sell you the solution. We call it service.

killeronthecorner ,
@killeronthecorner@lemmy.world avatar

Them: this is pretty good right? And affordable too!

Me: yeah it’s decent, don’t touch anything

Them: we’ve put in ads

Me: what? I don’t want ads, wtf

Them: bro, totally have you covered. No ads for $12.99 a month

Me: arr matey, don’t worry yerself 🦜🏴‍☠️

Touching_Grass , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    RQG ,
    @RQG@lemmy.world avatar

    I agree. I also think ads do influence us way more than almost anyone would believe or admit. Why else would companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars on ads without batting an eye. Many products cost as much or less than their ad campaign cost to make.

    So I try to avoid ads as much as possible. I haven’t seen or heard an ad in a long time aside from billboards and posters which are basically impossible to avoid.

    pthaloblue ,

    Ads are basically paid graffiti

    Touching_Grass , (edited )

    I think they’re worse then that though. They attempt to manipulate and influence. Graffiti is just kind of there. Advertising attempts to look like its just there. All so it can actually pull tricks on you. Its a messed up industry.

    After all the ad industry is what spawned climate denialism and also spread confusion between cigarettes and cancer among other issues. Issues that we have to be convinced of otherwise we might actually make a better societal choice. Hell The grandfather of modern advertising Edward Bernays leveraged what he know of human nature and sub consciousness to build this industry.

    Sure almost all ads are benign individually. But as an industry they’re pretty evil. Hell if it wasn’t for ads, we wouldn’t have lost the internet to the shit show it is today. All the identity stealing, data collection and propaganda machines were spawned because we ignored the growing cancer that is online ads.

    When I grew up there was a big push to reject ads and corporate spread. Even sub cultures like punk was focused on rejecting that growing bullshit. Then it all stopped. Like the ads won and now you’re the insane one if you say that advertising is a major issue in society today. Now every kid wants their own sponsorships and some do get it.

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    The story of how Virginia Slims became the #1 cigarette for women is the story of pure, psychological sneaky evil.

    HowManyNimons ,

    Ads are psychological abuse.

    RQG ,
    @RQG@lemmy.world avatar

    There actually is paid graffiti. Most that I’ve seen looks absolutely awesome. It’s insane what a graffiti artist can do when they got plenty time and don’t have to watch out to not be caught.

    Zeozulu ,

    You should check out Wynwood Walls if you ever find yourself in Miami, Florida. Blocks of amazing street art.

    mindbleach ,

    Banksy was right.

    Omega_Haxors ,

    [Pirate music intensifies]

    PersnickityPenguin ,

    Why does winamp now require ads and $12.99/ month to run?! It was free back in 1997!

    dubyakay ,

    Not sure if this is a serious comment, but in case it is, try foobar2k.

    VieuxQueb ,
    @VieuxQueb@lemmy.ca avatar

    Hmm, sorry my associate was meaning “temporary solution”, about every year you will need a new one. And we are so generous that if you buy two years in advance we will give you a 10% rebate and a big ole sticker with our brand in bold colors on it so you can give us free publicity.

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