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squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

Well, yeah. If I started the Dickweed Party and decided I'd be the candidate, I wouldn't have to let someone else take the nomination if I didn't want to.

Bloobish ,

Truly AMERICA is the freest state on earth cuss you can vooooooooooote right? …Right?

Tankiedesantski ,

I’ve been trying to come up with a term to describe this phenomenon for a while now. Privatewashing, maybe?

Westerners are programmed to not accept certain things if done by the government directly. Publishing propaganda? Bad. Laundering government propaganda through private media outlets? Not a problem. Interfering with a foreign election? Bad. Sponsoring a “Private NGO” to do it? Totally fine. Foreign government influencing domestic policy? Bad. Multinational companies paying lobby groups to do the same? Democracy.

In this case, the government telling people that their votes don’t count and that rules don’t have to be followed would be flagrantly undemocratic. A private organization doing that though? Well we can’t do anything about it even if it’s directly relevant to the outcome of elections and national policy.

jasondj ,

I don’t like “privatewashing”. It sounds like the longest part of my shower, and I’m not thinking about Bernie’s 2016 primary race during it.

Tankiedesantski ,

You’re right. Privatewashing does sound like a chapter in a Jordan Peterson book.

UlyssesT ,

football-lucy Harm reduction, bro. This time it will be different, bro. football-charlie-brown

nickwitha_k ,

I do see value in harm reduction, TBH. Dems are shit but, statistically, anti-electoralism is functionally equivalent to voting for the far-right. So, I see it as a way to at least make it take some work for politicians to pretend that the tenets of neoliberalism and fascism are supported by as wide a group as claimed and attempt to reduce their influence in local elections (ex. the coordinated efforts to subvert school boards and have [further] right-wing propaganda taught as fact).

Don’t mistake this as actually thinking that Libs are going to help unless forced, though. They’re absolutely Lucy in the picture.

UlyssesT ,

I do see value in harm reduction

Categorically, regarding the still-open concentration camps across the southern border, the murderously neglectful lack of a meaningful covid response, the expanded oil drilling and permissive retention of the previous regime’s planet-burning deregulation policies and the tax cuts and kickbacks to the rick being maintained, harm is not being reduced at this point.

nickwitha_k ,

Relatively speaking, it really still is. It can always get worse. And it would currently be much worse for LGBTQ+ people under a further right-wing government.

UlyssesT ,

It can always get worse.

The more you milk that, the less milk you will get out of it when things are getting worse even after they do what you say.

xerazal ,

Unfortunately in the two party duopoly, they’re the best we’ve got.

UlyssesT ,

football-lucy Harm reduction, bro. This time it will be different, bro. football-charlie-brown

xerazal ,

Fully aware, but it’s either that or allow the other party, which has become increasingly more fascist, back into power.

UlyssesT ,

The differences between them are getting less and less apparent over time.

Biden rolled back next to nothing of his predecessor’s policies and executive orders. The border concentration camps are still open for business. brump

xerazal ,

Bruh Republicans are open about backing trump even if he goes to jail. Trump has openly talked about how he wants to get rid of the constitution. They could have prevented him from running again after his failed coup attempt and they let him off the hook.

At least some good has come from the Biden presidency, which tbh I didn’t expect at all. Some progress is better than no progress. 15 min wage for federal contract workers, an NLRB that is more pro-union than ever in my lifetime, an actual attempt at student loan debt reduction (which he should just nix via executive order but I digress), a 15% minimum corporate tax rate, bring back microchip manufacturing, and there’s more that I can’t list off the top of my head.

Babysteps sure, but it’s better than nothing and way better than the backwards trajectory we got during the trump presidency and beyond the trump presidency due to his SC appointments.

Perfect? Hell no. But something. We need to take the wins we can get while still hammering him from the left to do more.

UlyssesT ,

Bruh

bruh yourself.

But something.

Your “harm reduction” president has not reduced much harm at all, no matter how you scramble in the dirt to try to hold up shiny things to wave at me.

It’s just cope

We need to take the wins we can get

The last three years, especially with covid and climate change, were not wins. Even the pretense of slowing the damage down is weak to false now.

xerazal ,

Jesus Christ might as well just give up on everything with your attitude lol

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

Being a leftist is coming to grips with how bad the situation is

xerazal ,

Dude ik shit is bad. I would have much preferred someone else be president rn, but we are stuck with Biden so we have to make due.

And 2024 is going to be Biden v trump again. A shitty matchup, ik, but again we have to make due.

Bring a leftist also means trying to make the most of a bad situation. This isn’t about what you or I want, it’s about what’s right for the working class given our current situation. And between Biden and trump, Biden is far better for the working class than trump could ever be.

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

Why are you even talking about the presidency at this point? It’s not real. You just saw ‘the good’ party openly admit that it’s not democratic and it’s against you. You know the same donors run both parties. Why are you still in this framing?

xerazal ,

Because 1 party does everything their donors say, the other does most of the stuff their donors say but still shows it’s able to be pushed by their voters to do good.

Do you really think that the donor class wanted the recent NLRB rule change that helps unions against union busting? No, but it happened because unlike the Republican party, the Democratic party can be swayed to fight for the working class. Is it perfect? No, but it’s something.

commiewithoutorgans ,
@commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net avatar

But they aren’t really swayed, they are playing the good guys to prevent riots. The role they fill, regardless of how any democrat personally feels, is the role of the small concession to prevent riot. It’s super helpful to capitalism to have a tiny outlet so that the major exploitation is ignored. It’s only “better” when you obsess with the short term goals and can’t see the projects over decades and across borders. Sometimes I get it, honestly, like I am never mad at comrades voting for the hope that trans and indigenous comrades aren’t genocided. But it’s just not good strategy to think about that decision for more than like 4 minutes a year because of the above stated functional argument.

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

With one hand they give you a ruling that says that if an employer breaks labor law (and the DoL agrees to enforce it), card check gets a union instead of a union vote.

With the other they take away three years of work labor organizing through impossible hoops by breaking the strike of the railworkers, who got nothing to show for it.

What’s the point of a union if you can’t strike?

commiewithoutorgans ,
@commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net avatar

We came to the conclusions because we want to avoid giving up. Once you realize that settling for “harm reduction” is also a form of giving up, you learn to think strategically and read people who think strategically about these things for real improvement. Like Lenin.

xerazal ,

Unfortunately harm reduction is all we can do rn, unless you are ready to start a working class revolution, which would require the majority of the working class to be on board with us. And idk about you, but I don’t think the American working class is there just yet.

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

It ain’t there because people like you put more energy into performing in electoral theatrics for the enemies of the working class rather than investing that energy in organizing, educating, and agitating your fellow worker.

xerazal ,

Or maybe I’m actually trying to help the working class by taking any win we can get whereas you’d rather watch the world burn than see the working class get any kind of win because it’s not big enough for you.

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

Lmao tell that to the Russians and Ukrainian workers who are dying by the thousands because of your utopianist belief in “taking any win”.

Absolute scum. There is zero difference material difference between you and the Democrats under biden. You can keep saying you’re a leftist or that you work in the interests of the working class, but you actions - or lack thereof - speaks louder than any phrasemongering you do.

xerazal ,

I’m apparently more of a leftist than you if you’re willing to throw the working class under the bus purely because the wins we are getting are smaller than you’d like… hell, they’re smaller than I’d like too. But it’s something, which is better than nothing or worse, outright reversals.

All your online posturing is doing absolutely nothing for the working class. Stop throwing around leftist ideals as if you actually give a damn. I wish we were in a better spot, but we aren’t. We are here, this is the hand we’ve been dealt, we have to make the most of it. The alternative is fascism winning, and you and I being lined up and shot like dogs.

And bringing up the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Oh boy, let me guess. You’d rather we stop supporting Ukraine and if it just happens to fall to Russia, so be it? Please…

Sickos ,
@Sickos@hexbear.net avatar

I am begging you to take the energy you’re putting into convincing others to vote and redirect it toward learning to handle a rifle.

xerazal ,

Why not both…

culpritus ,
@culpritus@hexbear.net avatar

So some rail unions would like to talk to you about ‘taking any win we can get’ I’d imagine.

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/ef4cceab-3063-4168-90b6-62120388689c.png

xerazal ,

Yes and I’m still pissed at Biden about that. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t done good.

Sickos ,
@Sickos@hexbear.net avatar

marx-guns-blazing

commiewithoutorgans ,
@commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net avatar

How are you doing that except for voting for Biden? The class conscious workers who aren’t succeeding in spreading that are the ones at fault, like me (and you, though I’m not convinced of you being class conscious). I’m trying my best though, in many organizations around many topics, to push my analysis further and improve it and the organizations to reach the goals of socialism.

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

We don’t ‘got’ them. They’re the enemy. This is a post about them showing you that they’re explicitly hostile to you, your politics, and the concept of democracy.

ThePac ,

Oh shit guess I’ll just vote third party, then.

lol no

azimir ,

Our First Past the Post Winner Take All voting system is demonstrably the worst voting system. Any form of preference polling like Ranked Choice Voting (fairvote.org) is significantly better. No voting system is perfect, but the current one used in most of the US is the shittiest one on the market today.

Any system like RCV opens the door to more parties and candidates who don’t 100% toe a party line. It also filters extreme position candidates out of primaries.

We can do better.

DerKriegs ,
@DerKriegs@lemmy.ml avatar

Ok, I get this, but let’s take a closer look:

Have you ever seen such a high resolution Pikachu meme? Such a shame it’s been wasted on more political rhetoric that no one asked for. More pixels in the damn quotes text, how wild!

Facky ,

If you don’t want politics go back to Reddit.

Cleverdawny ,

ITT tankies pretend they don’t know that legal arguments are meant for court and are made to argue from every angle.

No, this isn’t an admission that the primaries were rigged. They weren’t. It’s a hypothetical argument meant to progress a legal case to summary judgment, where the lawyer argued that even if everything the plaintiff said was correct, the DNC would still win the case.

Essentially, what the lawyers for the Democrats were doing was “if I grant everything you claim for the sake of argument, you would still lose, and here’s why.” That doesn’t admit anything. OP knows it, but since he’s a literal Stalin-humping fascist who just wants to see anyone who wishes for a better world fail, he doesn’t care.

beteljuice ,

It may not have been an admission that the primaries were rigged, and I know nothing about the OP, but nevertheless, the primaries were rigged.

Honytawk ,

Which means you got actual evidence right? And this isn’t some sort of assumption based on the stats not choosing the candidate of your choice, right?

Unless you mean gerrymandering, but everyone knows that is rigged.

Cleverdawny ,

The primaries weren’t gerrymandered, that only applies to the US house general election.

beteljuice ,

Did you not watch the Iowa primary? It was all out in the opem. They didn’t expect Sanders to make a strong showing so they dragged the vote count out for days. There were videos of districts choosing candidates with a coin flip, and visibly turning the coin over if Sanders was chosen. Their cronies at MSNBC and CNN were announcing a landslide against Sanders to sway public opinion even though it hadn’t happened. They set up the districts so that even though Sanders had the overall vote count, Buttigieg still won the delegate count.

And this isn’t even getting into the super rigged element of superdelegates.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OI1ubnuB_Y

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pqbf1J3CDw

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

piped.video/watch?v=8OI1ubnuB_Y

piped.video/watch?v=-pqbf1J3CDw

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Cleverdawny ,

ITT people still salty that Pete won Iowa 🤣🤣🤣

beteljuice ,

I’m not really a fan of Sanders, so I watched it objectively, and he was clearly shafted.

But go on with the attitude of treating important elections like highschool insult contests.

Cleverdawny ,

He clearly wasn’t. The Buttigieg campaign focuses on turnout in areas the Sanders campaign ignored and won the contest because of the rules of the Iowa caucus, which allocate delegates to each individual precinct not based on their turnout but on their overall population. Sanders did well in highly attended precincts, Buttigieg beat him by outperforming him in less well attended precincts.

It’s the way the rules were. Bernie could have employed the same strategy, but he didn’t.

beteljuice ,

So you’ve nothing to say about the strange extended vote count and the switched coin tosses.

Cleverdawny ,

“switched”

beteljuice ,

Watch the videos. It’s right there.

Cleverdawny ,

I just watched both videos and they were just normal coin tosses. What was I supposed to see there? If either person had faked the coin toss, why didn’t anyone on the ground complain? The Sanders people were RIGHT THERE and accepted the result.

jackpot ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

whats itt mean

Asafum ,

In This Thread

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

comment from lemm.ee opinion discarded

kiranraine ,

This is why I’m a leftist not a lib. I vote Democrat bc no choice but I want more progressives in office…

bitsplease ,

As someone else posted on this site

“there are two types of democratic voters, centrist conservatives and hostages”

kiranraine ,

I mean yea sounds about right. The moderates are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Esp when they randomly flip parties and screw us over on rights and encourage the gerrymandering to get worse 🙃

abraxas ,

There’s progressives, as well as a good breakdown of demsocs. You can be pleasantly surprised about some parts of Biden’s presidency without being a centrist conservative who would have had him near the top of your list

Facky ,

Then stop voting for libs

kiranraine ,

Better than voting for gqp. I vote progressive in primaries and forced into the other bc no one has the spines to fix the system to ranked elimination voting. I’m leftist bc at least they’re not actively trying to unalive me like the right

fushuan ,

No you don’t understand, their alternative is not to vote red, the alternative is not to vote and then complain that the results are fucked because no metter what they voted it would be fucked so they need a revolution, blood will flow, yada yada.

kiranraine ,

I get that but I’d rather vote and revolution at the same time. Not voting gives the gqp more power imo and just ugh 😑

fushuan ,

I agree, I also think that not voting is the same as voting to whoever wins, since effectively it does the same thing. I was just trying to explain you their viewpoint.

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

I’m leftist bc at least they’re not actively trying to unalive me like the right

They’ll just kneel in Solidarity with you as the right tries to unalienable you.

Progress.

kiranraine ,

That’s the moderates of the “left” that’s actually the right lol

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

Those are your progressives, honey. maybe-later-kiddo

liberalism

kiranraine ,

Hahaha no. The moderates are conservatives in sheep’s clothing. Nice try tho

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

maybe-later-kiddo They’re progressives and if you think otherwise then you’re helping the fascists win

kiranraine ,

Hahaha Pelosi, Biden and others a progressive? You need to Google shiz, it’s free. They’re centrists and moderates at best. They don’t belong to actual leftist and progressive ideology and no one on this side claims them. Good try tho

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

soypoint-1 liberalism soypoint-2

maybe-later-kiddo they’re the only thing standing against actual fascism you tankie

kiranraine ,

Sure, while also compromising with the gqp to destroy the effectiveness of any legislation. Her especially needs to freaking retire, yall need to stop with these logical fallacies. Her, rbg and the rest of the moderates over the years have done absolutely NOTHING to actually help people not be in danger from the gqp and their followers. Esp in my state. Do some damn research and stop this bs of calling these moderates what they aren’t 🤣

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

Sounds like you need to put your money where your mouth is and vote harder for the defenders of our democracy good-morning and not undermine it by supporting radical leftists like Mayor Pete you red-fascist tankie

kiranraine ,

You probably believe a bunch of countries are communists or socialists despite their leaders preventing them actually going there fully. Once you have a dictator or similar leader it defeats the purpose 🤣

Alaskaball ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

Imagine being mad enough to double comment wojak-nooo

UlyssesT ,

but I want more progressives in office

You’re not getting them because that’s not what the ruling class wants from the DNC.

ringwraithfish ,

You're all just better off blocking this user. He's been trolling hard lately.

Rapidcreek ,

Bernie is an independent, though he has been invited to join the Democratic Party. He has refused. Why would the DNC spend its resources on Bernie when people spend considerable time, effort and money that are actually party members? By rule, an independent cannot run for nomination for the Republican party.

beteljuice ,

This is why. The DNC is trash.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/0eaacc5a-8499-4689-ad70-8e0994faf5e4.jpeg

Rapidcreek ,

Sure. You’ve got to agree with a person with such great logic.

abraxas ,

This is the real reason. Bernie refused to meaningfully cooperative with the party who basically have a policy of allowing members across the widest political spectrum of any party, and then was shocked that they did completely legal and defensible things that might have affected his odds of winning the Primary, a Primary that was still ultimately decided by vote counts that he lost by a landslide. Nobody alienated Bernie (just look at Warren who writes half the bills he supports), he alienated himself.

Do people know why Bernie caucused with the Democrats? Because only about 9% of Americans identify as far left as progressive, and we only win something if we can compromise it with the only political party that works in good faith.

this_1_is_mine ,

Ok Hillary sit the fuck down.

DharmaCurious ,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

Sing it with me now, folks: 🎶… o’er the laaaaaaand of the freeeee🎶

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